[Ammi]

..I'm coming around to the opinion that I'm pro-choice..I don't agree with the 20wk time period, but I do think that it isn't for anyone else to say what the right or wrong circumstances to have a child is for others...I do, however agree with Vicky, that 'multiple' abortions shouldn't be allowed...if you've gone through an abortion before then a second or third time is inexcusable.....

..I am a mother and I would never have aborted any of my pregnancies but it's not for me to say that my views should apply to others....

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I'm coming around to the opinion that I'm pro-choice..I don't agree with the 20wk time period, but I do think that it isn't for anyone else to say what the right or wrong circumstances to have a child is for others...I do, however agree with Vicky, that 'multiple' abortions shouldn't be allowed...if you've gone through an abortion before then a second or third time is inexcusable.....

..I am a mother and I would never have aborted any of my pregnancies but it's not for me to say that my views should apply to others....

Is it not 24 weeks?

I think this needs to be reduced drastically! My friend had her baby at 26 weeks and she survived. I think 8-12 weeks us the latest it should be

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Lee.

Is it not 24 weeks?

I think this needs to be reduced drastically! My friend had her baby at 26 weeks and she survived. I think 8-12 weeks us the latest it should be

The problem with this is the tests you mentioned above. The original downs/spina bifada tests are done between 10-14 weeks. They cant be done earlier than that, nothing would show up. If you are considered 'high risk' (under 1/100 chance I *think*) you are offered more tests..this is after waiting a week/fortnight for the results of the first one (so you could be16 weeks gone by the time you got the results). No idea how long the other tests take as I had a 1/70,000 chance so they didnt even discuss that with me.

90% of abortions are carried out in the first trimester anyway, I would imagine this is most of those who are doing it for anything other than medical reasons (excluding those who do not realise until late on that they are pregnant). Reducing the limit to 12 weeks would only force people to carry on with pregnancies where there are 'problems' (I say problems like that as not everyone would see having a severely disabled child as a 'problem', but some would)


I guess it could be a 8/12 week limit unless there is a valid medical reason (not including cleft lip etc that are classed as reasons to get late abortions now ) but this still has the problem of those who dont even realise they are pregnant until they are quite late on :/

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

The problem with this is the tests you mentioned above. The original downs/spina bifada tests are done between 10-14 weeks. They cant be done earlier than that, nothing would show up. If you are considered 'high risk' (under 1/100 chance I *think*) you are offered more tests..this is after waiting a week/fortnight for the results of the first one (so you could be16 weeks gone by the time you got the results). No idea how long the other tests take as I had a 1/70,000 chance so they didnt even discuss that with me.

90% of abortions are carried out in the first trimester anyway, I would imagine this is most of those who are doing it for anything other than medical reasons (excluding those who do not realise until late on that they are pregnant). Reducing the limit to 12 weeks would only force people to carry on with pregnancies where there are 'problems' (I say problems like that as not everyone would see having a severely disabled child as a 'problem', but some would)

yes but even those 90% are murdered babies

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by the truth

yes but even those 90% are murdered babies

And? Lowering the limit would not stop those 90% of 'babies being 'murdered'

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

And? Lowering the limit would not stop those 90% of 'babies being 'murdered'

yes lowering the limit greatly and placing far tighter stricter regulations and procedures at all abortion clinics, makingit law that mothers and fathers are consulted and that all their alternatives must be given to them by law. this flippant, do you want to kill it because it may have a minor or major disability, is disgusting, its murder imho and it must be seriously tightened up to put it mildly. 191000 abortions a year , is 191000 human lives who may have lived for the next 50 to 100 years, who knows what these people could have achieved? Over 2 decades, the numbers killed would be reaching holocaust proportions. It must be addressed andit must stop being a petty male v female issue hijacked by the radical elements of the far right nutters and the far left feminazis....the middle ground moderates must find compromises and take back control of abortion, as well as all other major issues.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by the truth

yes lowering the limit greatly and placing far tighter stricter regulations and procedures at all abortion clinics, makingit law that mothers and fathers are consulted and that all their alternatives must be given to them by law. this flippant, do you want to kill it because it may have a minor or major disability, is disgusting, its murder imho and it must be seriously tightened up to put it mildly. 191000 abortions a year , is 191000 human lives who may have lived for the next 50 to 100 years, who knows what these people could have achieved? Over 2 decades, the numbers killed would be reaching holocaust proportions. It must be addressed andit must stop being a petty male v female issue hijacked by the radical elements of the far right nutters and the far left feminazis....the middle ground moderates must find compromises and take back control of abortion, as well as all other major issues.

I absolutely agree that Fathers have a right to be heard too but you would not be able to make it law that Father's are consulted too - what if the pregnancy was the result of a one night stand and the woman has not seen the guy again and therefore cannot contact him? It raises another morality issue on casual sex but surely these women should not be treated differently than a woman who can name the father?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

The problem with this is the tests you mentioned above. The original downs/spina bifada tests are done between 10-14 weeks. They cant be done earlier than that, nothing would show up. If you are considered 'high risk' (under 1/100 chance I *think*) you are offered more tests..this is after waiting a week/fortnight for the results of the first one (so you could be16 weeks gone by the time you got the results). No idea how long the other tests take as I had a 1/70,000 chance so they didnt even discuss that with me.

90% of abortions are carried out in the first trimester anyway, I would imagine this is most of those who are doing it for anything other than medical reasons (excluding those who do not realise until late on that they are pregnant). Reducing the limit to 12 weeks would only force people to carry on with pregnancies where there are 'problems' (I say problems like that as not everyone would see having a severely disabled child as a 'problem', but some would)


I guess it could be a 8/12 week limit unless there is a valid medical reason (not including cleft lip etc that are classed as reasons to get late abortions now ) but this still has the problem of those who dont even realise they are pregnant until they are quite late on :/

That's actually a disgrace.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

That's actually a disgrace.

Yes I know. Couldnt believe it when I found out that myself.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Yes I know. Couldnt believe it when I found out that myself.

You'd have to wonder what kind of parents those people are, they want a baby but not if they have a cleft lip .......

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

You'd have to wonder what kind of parents those people are, they want a baby but not if they have a cleft lip .......

..that's basically like the Chinese guy who sued his wife because his daughter wasn't pretty enough...

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

The problem with this is the tests you mentioned above. The original downs/spina bifada tests are done between 10-14 weeks. They cant be done earlier than that, nothing would show up. If you are considered 'high risk' (under 1/100 chance I *think*) you are offered more tests..this is after waiting a week/fortnight for the results of the first one (so you could be16 weeks gone by the time you got the results). No idea how long the other tests take as I had a 1/70,000 chance so they didnt even discuss that with me.

90% of abortions are carried out in the first trimester anyway, I would imagine this is most of those who are doing it for anything other than medical reasons (excluding those who do not realise until late on that they are pregnant). Reducing the limit to 12 weeks would only force people to carry on with pregnancies where there are 'problems' (I say problems like that as not everyone would see having a severely disabled child as a 'problem', but some would)


I guess it could be a 8/12 week limit unless there is a valid medical reason (not including cleft lip etc that are classed as reasons to get late abortions now ) but this still has the problem of those who dont even realise they are pregnant until they are quite late on :/

..so is it the same term for 'selected' abortions Vicky...?

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..so is it the same term for 'selected' abortions Vicky...?

Selected abortions?

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Selected abortions?

..if you didn't have to wait for tests, but chose to have an abortion because of your personal circumstances...is it still 24 weeks..?

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..if you didn't have to wait for tests, but chose to have an abortion because of your personal circumstances...is it still 24 weeks..?

Ah right I get you. Yeah I think the 24 week limit is for any reason. Though its not always as easy to get an abortion as people think (quite how some people manage to get multiple ones I dont know). Its not quite just going to the docs and saying you want one. You need 2 docs to agree with you that it is the right thing for you and the fetus. You are also 'supposed' to get proper counselling beforehand to make sure you arent doing it for the wrong reasons, or arent going to regret it immediately, though I know this doesnt always happen.

Not many abortions are carried out after 13 weeks though anyway. As I said earlier, it seems quite self regulating. Possibly because its a much different method getting a later abortion than an early one.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

The problem with this is the tests you mentioned above. The original downs/spina bifada tests are done between 10-14 weeks. They cant be done earlier than that, nothing would show up. If you are considered 'high risk' (under 1/100 chance I *think*) you are offered more tests..this is after waiting a week/fortnight for the results of the first one (so you could be16 weeks gone by the time you got the results). No idea how long the other tests take as I had a 1/70,000 chance so they didnt even discuss that with me.

90% of abortions are carried out in the first trimester anyway, I would imagine this is most of those who are doing it for anything other than medical reasons (excluding those who do not realise until late on that they are pregnant). Reducing the limit to 12 weeks would only force people to carry on with pregnancies where there are 'problems' (I say problems like that as not everyone would see having a severely disabled child as a 'problem', but some would)


I guess it could be a 8/12 week limit unless there is a valid medical reason (not including cleft lip etc that are classed as reasons to get late abortions now ) but this still has the problem of those who dont even realise they are pregnant until they are quite late on :/

..that's interesting, I can understand that people may have there own reasons for not wishing the pregnancy to go ahead and those reasons are for nobody else to judge but I guess, I don't understand how they couldn't know this from an earlier stage in the pregnancy..but I suppose circumstances could change during the course of ther pregnancy as well....it's good that they have all of the emotional counselling too...I would have thought that their body and emotions almost go into shock when they're suddenly not pregnant...I don't know if it's different with a miscarriage because the body has rejected the pregnancy or the baby hasn't survived....it's important that they feel certain they're making the right choice for them...

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..that's interesting, I can understand that people may have there own reasons for not wishing the pregnancy to go ahead and those reasons are for nobody else to judge but I guess, I don't understand how they couldn't know this from an earlier stage in the pregnancy..but I suppose circumstances could change during the course of ther pregnancy as well....it's good that they have all of the emotional counselling too...I would have thought that their body and emotions almost go into shock when they're suddenly not pregnant...I don't know if it's different with a miscarriage because the body has rejected the pregnancy or the baby hasn't survived....it's important that they feel certain they're making the right choice for them...

An early abortion (before 13 weeks) is pretty much exactly the same as a miscarriage. You take pills and it kind of induces a miscarriage. Late on I believe it requires an operation of some kind, so yeah I would think your body probably would go into shock or something.

I seriously doubt there are many people who just chose to have an abortion after 13 weeks because they decide they dont want/cant support/etc a baby...its something you would know immediately really. I think its likely that most done after this point are for medical reasons or because the woman didnt even know she was pregnant until late on. I know of some people who didnt even know they were pregnant until they were 6month+ gone

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..that's interesting, I can understand that people may have there own reasons for not wishing the pregnancy to go ahead and those reasons are for nobody else to judge but I guess, I don't understand how they couldn't know this from an earlier stage in the pregnancy..but I suppose circumstances could change during the course of ther pregnancy as well....it's good that they have all of the emotional counselling too...I would have thought that their body and emotions almost go into shock when they're suddenly not pregnant...I don't know if it's different with a miscarriage because the body has rejected the pregnancy or the baby hasn't survived....it's important that they feel certain they're making the right choice for them...

I was 17 weeks pregnant with my son before I found out I was pregnant

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Lee.

Is it not 24 weeks?

I think this needs to be reduced drastically! My friend had her baby at 26 weeks and she survived. I think 8-12 weeks us the latest it should be

..yeah, for some reason I thought it was 12 weeks, I agree that the term when it is allowed is barbaric...