[ChristmasNeeve]

I understand that Ammi, I'm probably leaning to that view too. I personally think abortion is wrong but I'm not vain enough to think that I'm 100% right on that. All I know for sure is that it would be wrong for me

[Candy Annie Cane]

Originally Posted by Lee.

Yeah it is actually... I think actually going through pregnancy and childbirth can change your mind about these sort of subjects.


I remember turning up at the hospital for an appointment when I was pregnant with child1.. I dint really know why I was there and they explained it was for blood tests to see if there was any chance she could be Downs or Spina Bifida... you then had to wait for aged for the test results, THEN actually get the baby tested. I told them it just sounded like a big worry test .. they asked me if I would terminate if my baby was Downs Syndrome and I was just horrified.. I'd felt her move, heard her heartbeat and already felt super protective of her. I told them absolutely no way! And they just sent me home without having the tests done. I just can't imagine allowing somebody to remove my living baby from my body and killing it. The thought of it shocks me tbh.

I agree with you 100% Lee, I think sometimes there are too many tests. A friend of mine went for her 20 week scan but there had been a delay and she was 23 weeks gone when she had the scan. She was then told that there were potential problems with the babies heart, brain and kidneys but they would not know until the baby was born what the extent was and she should go home and make a decision overnight regarding termination as she was close to the legal limit. Thankfully she decided to continue with the pregnancy and spent the rest of the time agonising over her decision - not for herself but for any potential suffering for the baby.

Lucikily the baby was born with some kidney problems but they have been treated now....she is now wracked with guilt for the hours she spent considering a termination...

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I understand that Ammi, I'm probably leaning to that view too. I personally think abortion is wrong but I'm not vain enough to think that I'm 100% right on that. All I know for sure is that it would be wrong for me

..yeah, definately for me too..I think even in the case of rape, if I thought I may never be able to love the child, I would rather it had the opportunity to be loved by someone else than abort it....

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..yeah, definately for me too..I think even in the case of rape, if I thought I may never be able to love the child, I would rather it had the opportunity to be loved by someone else than abort it....

Yeah obviously and thankfully I've never been in that situation so I can only guess on how I'd feel but I still don't think I'd have an abortion even in that case

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I'm coming around to the opinion that I'm pro-choice..I don't agree with the 20wk time period, but I do think that it isn't for anyone else to say what the right or wrong circumstances to have a child is for others...I do, however agree with Vicky, that 'multiple' abortions shouldn't be allowed...if you've gone through an abortion before then a second or third time is inexcusable.....

..I am a mother and I would never have aborted any of my pregnancies but it's not for me to say that my views should apply to others....

Is it not 24 weeks?

I think this needs to be reduced drastically! My friend had her baby at 26 weeks and she survived. I think 8-12 weeks us the latest it should be

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by anniek76

I agree with you 100% Lee, I think sometimes there are too many tests. A friend of mine went for her 20 week scan but there had been a delay and she was 23 weeks gone when she had the scan. She was then told that there were potential problems with the babies heart, brain and kidneys but they would not know until the baby was born what the extent was and she should go home and make a decision overnight regarding termination as she was close to the legal limit. Thankfully she decided to continue with the pregnancy and spent the rest of the time agonising over her decision - not for herself but for any potential suffering for the baby.

Lucikily the baby was born with some kidney problems but they have been treated now....she is now wracked with guilt for the hours she spent considering a termination...

God, it must be awful to hear news like that! I'm glad the baby is fine now

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Lee.

Is it not 24 weeks?

I think this needs to be reduced drastically! My friend had her baby at 26 weeks and she survived. I think 8-12 weeks us the latest it should be

The problem with this is the tests you mentioned above. The original downs/spina bifada tests are done between 10-14 weeks. They cant be done earlier than that, nothing would show up. If you are considered 'high risk' (under 1/100 chance I *think*) you are offered more tests..this is after waiting a week/fortnight for the results of the first one (so you could be16 weeks gone by the time you got the results). No idea how long the other tests take as I had a 1/70,000 chance so they didnt even discuss that with me.

90% of abortions are carried out in the first trimester anyway, I would imagine this is most of those who are doing it for anything other than medical reasons (excluding those who do not realise until late on that they are pregnant). Reducing the limit to 12 weeks would only force people to carry on with pregnancies where there are 'problems' (I say problems like that as not everyone would see having a severely disabled child as a 'problem', but some would)


I guess it could be a 8/12 week limit unless there is a valid medical reason (not including cleft lip etc that are classed as reasons to get late abortions now ) but this still has the problem of those who dont even realise they are pregnant until they are quite late on :/

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Marc

Pregnancy with the wrong two people should be rectified, within the time period that is seen to be acceptable.

Don't want a child being born to two people who don't want it, or to be grown within a woman who doesn't want to be pregnant.

what the heck are you talking about?

if 2 people are currently arguing, the baby must be killed off?
if a woman is pregnant but feels like she doesnt want to be, the baby must be killed off?

I am undertsanding you right?

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

The problem with this is the tests you mentioned above. The original downs/spina bifada tests are done between 10-14 weeks. They cant be done earlier than that, nothing would show up. If you are considered 'high risk' (under 1/100 chance I *think*) you are offered more tests..this is after waiting a week/fortnight for the results of the first one (so you could be16 weeks gone by the time you got the results). No idea how long the other tests take as I had a 1/70,000 chance so they didnt even discuss that with me.

90% of abortions are carried out in the first trimester anyway, I would imagine this is most of those who are doing it for anything other than medical reasons (excluding those who do not realise until late on that they are pregnant). Reducing the limit to 12 weeks would only force people to carry on with pregnancies where there are 'problems' (I say problems like that as not everyone would see having a severely disabled child as a 'problem', but some would)

yes but even those 90% are murdered babies

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

The problem with this is the tests you mentioned above. The original downs/spina bifada tests are done between 10-14 weeks. They cant be done earlier than that, nothing would show up. If you are considered 'high risk' (under 1/100 chance I *think*) you are offered more tests..this is after waiting a week/fortnight for the results of the first one (so you could be16 weeks gone by the time you got the results). No idea how long the other tests take as I had a 1/70,000 chance so they didnt even discuss that with me.

90% of abortions are carried out in the first trimester anyway, I would imagine this is most of those who are doing it for anything other than medical reasons (excluding those who do not realise until late on that they are pregnant). Reducing the limit to 12 weeks would only force people to carry on with pregnancies where there are 'problems' (I say problems like that as not everyone would see having a severely disabled child as a 'problem', but some would)


I guess it could be a 8/12 week limit unless there is a valid medical reason (not including cleft lip etc that are classed as reasons to get late abortions now ) but this still has the problem of those who dont even realise they are pregnant until they are quite late on :/

That's actually a disgrace.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by the truth

yes but even those 90% are murdered babies

And? Lowering the limit would not stop those 90% of 'babies being 'murdered'

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

That's actually a disgrace.

Yes I know. Couldnt believe it when I found out that myself.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Lee.

Is it not 24 weeks?

I think this needs to be reduced drastically! My friend had her baby at 26 weeks and she survived. I think 8-12 weeks us the latest it should be

..yeah, for some reason I thought it was 12 weeks, I agree that the term when it is allowed is barbaric...

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Yes I know. Couldnt believe it when I found out that myself.

You'd have to wonder what kind of parents those people are, they want a baby but not if they have a cleft lip .......

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

The problem with this is the tests you mentioned above. The original downs/spina bifada tests are done between 10-14 weeks. They cant be done earlier than that, nothing would show up. If you are considered 'high risk' (under 1/100 chance I *think*) you are offered more tests..this is after waiting a week/fortnight for the results of the first one (so you could be16 weeks gone by the time you got the results). No idea how long the other tests take as I had a 1/70,000 chance so they didnt even discuss that with me.

90% of abortions are carried out in the first trimester anyway, I would imagine this is most of those who are doing it for anything other than medical reasons (excluding those who do not realise until late on that they are pregnant). Reducing the limit to 12 weeks would only force people to carry on with pregnancies where there are 'problems' (I say problems like that as not everyone would see having a severely disabled child as a 'problem', but some would)


I guess it could be a 8/12 week limit unless there is a valid medical reason (not including cleft lip etc that are classed as reasons to get late abortions now ) but this still has the problem of those who dont even realise they are pregnant until they are quite late on :/

..so is it the same term for 'selected' abortions Vicky...?

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

You'd have to wonder what kind of parents those people are, they want a baby but not if they have a cleft lip .......

..that's basically like the Chinese guy who sued his wife because his daughter wasn't pretty enough...

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..so is it the same term for 'selected' abortions Vicky...?

Selected abortions?

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..that's basically like the Chinese guy who sued his wife because his daughter wasn't pretty enough...

Yeah, it is actually

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

And? Lowering the limit would not stop those 90% of 'babies being 'murdered'

yes lowering the limit greatly and placing far tighter stricter regulations and procedures at all abortion clinics, makingit law that mothers and fathers are consulted and that all their alternatives must be given to them by law. this flippant, do you want to kill it because it may have a minor or major disability, is disgusting, its murder imho and it must be seriously tightened up to put it mildly. 191000 abortions a year , is 191000 human lives who may have lived for the next 50 to 100 years, who knows what these people could have achieved? Over 2 decades, the numbers killed would be reaching holocaust proportions. It must be addressed andit must stop being a petty male v female issue hijacked by the radical elements of the far right nutters and the far left feminazis....the middle ground moderates must find compromises and take back control of abortion, as well as all other major issues.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Selected abortions?

..if you didn't have to wait for tests, but chose to have an abortion because of your personal circumstances...is it still 24 weeks..?

[the truth]

incidentally do men ever ask their wives or lovers for abortions? thats another example where an abortion could come about as a fickle life choice. i.e. he may want to keep the affair quiet or he may not want the hassle and finance of bringing up a child. again its not male v female issue, it throws up loads of different scenarios, each ending with a baby effectively murdered.

[Candy Annie Cane]

Originally Posted by the truth

yes lowering the limit greatly and placing far tighter stricter regulations and procedures at all abortion clinics, makingit law that mothers and fathers are consulted and that all their alternatives must be given to them by law. this flippant, do you want to kill it because it may have a minor or major disability, is disgusting, its murder imho and it must be seriously tightened up to put it mildly. 191000 abortions a year , is 191000 human lives who may have lived for the next 50 to 100 years, who knows what these people could have achieved? Over 2 decades, the numbers killed would be reaching holocaust proportions. It must be addressed andit must stop being a petty male v female issue hijacked by the radical elements of the far right nutters and the far left feminazis....the middle ground moderates must find compromises and take back control of abortion, as well as all other major issues.

I absolutely agree that Fathers have a right to be heard too but you would not be able to make it law that Father's are consulted too - what if the pregnancy was the result of a one night stand and the woman has not seen the guy again and therefore cannot contact him? It raises another morality issue on casual sex but surely these women should not be treated differently than a woman who can name the father?

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..if you didn't have to wait for tests, but chose to have an abortion because of your personal circumstances...is it still 24 weeks..?

Ah right I get you. Yeah I think the 24 week limit is for any reason. Though its not always as easy to get an abortion as people think (quite how some people manage to get multiple ones I dont know). Its not quite just going to the docs and saying you want one. You need 2 docs to agree with you that it is the right thing for you and the fetus. You are also 'supposed' to get proper counselling beforehand to make sure you arent doing it for the wrong reasons, or arent going to regret it immediately, though I know this doesnt always happen.

Not many abortions are carried out after 13 weeks though anyway. As I said earlier, it seems quite self regulating. Possibly because its a much different method getting a later abortion than an early one.

[Marcus.]

i live in an very religions house so my house says no

[Jamie585]

100 % depends on the circumstances, If someone wants an abortion just because they don't want a baby, they shouldn't be allowed, It's their own fault, But if there was a reason behind it, like too young, Or could effect the health of you or the baby, then I guess Abortion Is a good choice for them.