[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Catweazel

Not on the slightest no

(and you could allege that at every new parent at some point)

Eh? I know no new parents who leave their kids indoors alone (with doors unlocked too) so they can go out eating and drinking with friends quite a distance away?

I understand the views of those who think the parents are innocent of anything dodgy. But to deny they were neglectful at all that night..well, I have never heard that one before.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jezzy

Catweazle, I was left a single parent when my two were 30 months and 19 months respectively. Never once did I leave them alone, not even to pop across the road for a paper.

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Eh? I know no new parents who leave their kids indoors alone (with doors unlocked too) so they can go out eating and drinking with friends quite a distance away?

I understand the views of those who think the parents are innocent of anything dodgy. But to deny they were neglectful at all that night..well, I have never heard that one before.

Yep, agree with these, especially with kids that young as well who were liable to wake up looking for their parents in the middle of the night (and Maddie had done the previous night apparently and Kate and gerry still went out after that even after Maddie told them she was looking for them

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Eh? I know no new parents who leave their kids indoors alone (with doors unlocked too) so they can go out eating and drinking with friends quite a distance away?

I understand the views of those who think the parents are innocent of anything dodgy. But to deny they were neglectful at all that night..well, I have never heard that one before.

Sample size of one is no sample. Kids all around the world are left like that millions of times a day and nothing happens.

This case had a criminal who was willing to steal a child as the main ingredient. That is the issue here, not that they were unsupervised as millions are.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Catweazel

Sample size of one is no sample. Kids all around the world are left like that millions of times a day and nothing happens.

This case had a criminal who was willing to steal a child as the main ingredient. That is the issue here, not that they were unsupervised as millions are.

2 and 3 year olds should not be left alone in a house (or apartment) at night while parents go out for dinner and drinks, i would have thought that atleast was indisputable. Whether or not other people do it is irrelevant, they shouldn't, it's irresponsible and neglectful

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

2 and 3 year olds should not be left alone in a house (or apartment) at night while parents go out for dinner and drinks, i would have thought that atleast was indisputable. Whether or not other people do it is irrelevant, they shouldn't, it's irresponsible and neglectful

The distance and situation led them to judge it safe and had there not been a psychopathic paedophile or some such crazy there it would have been fine - for all we know the child could have been taken in the following days at the beach or in a shop - I very much doubt that it was the situation that chanced the action, rather it was a premeditated act.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Catweazel

The distance and situation led them to judge it safe and had there not been a psychopathic paedophile or some such crazy there it would have been fine - for all we know the child could have been taken in the following days at the beach or in a shop - I very much doubt that it was the situation that chanced the action, rather it was a premeditated act.

On this we agree. IF it was a randomer taking Maddie, it was premeditated. And they knew there would be a chance to do so as they had watched the parents night after night previously leaving the kids unsupervised, so they knew they would be able to take her that night.

Also to say leaving young kids alone would have been fine if not for the abductor lurking..well..so many things could go wrong even without that, hat a normal parent would think of. The kids waking up and wandering off, a fire, an accident...

[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by Catweazel

Sample size of one is no sample. Kids all around the world are left like that millions of times a day and nothing happens.

This case had a criminal who was willing to steal a child as the main ingredient. That is the issue here, not that they were unsupervised as millions are.

Exactly. Nothing happens. But to take the chance *is* neglect.

Steal a child as the main ingredient? Surely the only ingredient, as no valuables were touched.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Catweazel

Sample size of one is no sample. Kids all around the world are left like that millions of times a day and nothing happens.

This case had a criminal who was willing to steal a child as the main ingredient. That is the issue here, not that they were unsupervised as millions are.

Totally disagree, and the fact that many other parents are negligent too doesnt take away from the parents bearing at the very least some responsibility for this, whatever happened that night.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Totally disagree, and the fact that many other parents are negligent too doesnt take away from the parents bearing at the very least some responsibility for this, whatever happened that night.

negligent in your eyes. have you brought up children yet?

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Catweazel

negligent in your eyes. have you brought up children yet?

Yes I have and I would never leave my child alone so I could go out on the piss. To deny this is negligence is just ridiculous. Even the most vocal of the mccann supporters admit that they (and their friends who also left young kids alone) were negligent.

[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by Catweazel

negligent in your eyes. have you brought up children yet?

I have. I would never have dreamt of leaving them alone.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Jezzy

I have. I would never have dreamt of leaving them alone.

What do you mean by leave them alone?

Would you go to the end of your garden on a summer night if they were asleep?

[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by Catweazel

What do you mean by leave them alone?

Would you go to the end of your garden on a summer night if they were asleep?

Yup, if I had the baby monitor with me.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Catweazel

What do you mean by leave them alone?

Would you go to the end of your garden on a summer night if they were asleep?

Thats totally different...

They were a 5 min walk from the apartment. And couldnt actually see the place clearly from where they were.

A better comparison would be would you leave all your doors open while your young kids were asleep, and nip to the pub 5 mins down the road for a quick one.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Catweazel

negligent in your eyes. have you brought up children yet?

as have I and I would never ever leave my kids alone. My 9 year old son wakes up in the middle of the night sometimes and he would be terrified if he couldn't find me or my husband or a responsible adult

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

as have I and I would never ever leave my kids alone. My 9 year old son wakes up in the middle of the night sometimes and he would be terrified if he couldn't find me or my husband or a responsible adult

Yes and other parents are not you and would think nothing of popping to a neighbour whilst their kids slept. The Mccanns were 30 seconds away and checked regularly, for them that was ok and had it not been for a premeditated psycho.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Catweazel

Yes and other parents are not you and would think nothing of popping to a neighbour whilst their kids slept. The Mccanns were 30 seconds away and checked regularly, for them that was ok and had it not been for a premeditated psycho.

and what if there was a fire? or if one of them got up and had an accident? Most people would think about those kind of things