[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Eh? I know no new parents who leave their kids indoors alone (with doors unlocked too) so they can go out eating and drinking with friends quite a distance away?

I understand the views of those who think the parents are innocent of anything dodgy. But to deny they were neglectful at all that night..well, I have never heard that one before.

Sample size of one is no sample. Kids all around the world are left like that millions of times a day and nothing happens.

This case had a criminal who was willing to steal a child as the main ingredient. That is the issue here, not that they were unsupervised as millions are.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

Chuff - we've danced this dance before and neither of us have got anywhere with the other one. The approach you admitted to taking in the previous thread was nothing short of mind-blowingly inappropriate (that's me trying my best to be really polite). I looked through those links about cadaver and all that stuff you provided, but 30 seconds on google reveals it was nowhere near as cast iron as you and a bunch of others have convinced yourselves it is/was.

I also find your continued arrogance on this subject revealing. You have too much invested in this case to let it go. If no further evidence is brought up from now until the time you leave this earth, you'll still be convinced. If there is evidence brought up that proves them guilty of anything other than being irresponsible, then I'd accept it. I'm not part of any internet groups that try and push a certain agenda. There is a stark difference in the way both of us view/approach this case.

I think, and this is a compliment here, most people are so kind, and geared towards the protection of children, that even just leaving them alone as the McCanns' and friends did that night, seems so negligent to most of us, that people can't accept that's where their involvement ends.

I have no idea whether I'm right or wrong, I just know that I don't know. And if I don't know, then you can't know either.

YOu of all people have the cheek to call ME arrogant ? that takes the biscuit, but I see with your very limited knowledge of this case, you have fallen for the "children left alone"lie, the children were NEVER left alone until that final night, but by then Maddie was already dead, that night was done to give them alibis,and so if McCann admitted neglect, they could then claim abduction ,without that they could not ,education is a wonderful thing ,try it

[Jezzy]

In the Shannon Matthews case, the dogs alerted to there having been a corpse. Obviously it wasn't Shannon's, yet there had been deaths there. The Ocean Club categorically stated that there had been NO deaths in that apartment prior to Madeleine's case.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

YOu of all people have the cheek to call ME arrogant ? that takes the biscuit, but I see with your very limited knowledge of this case, you have fallen for the "children left alone"lie, the children were NEVER left alone until that final night, but by then Maddie was already dead, that night was done to give them alibis,and so if McCann admitted neglect, they could then claim abduction ,without that they could not ,education is a wonderful thing ,try it

Where did they hide the body?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Catweazel

Sample size of one is no sample. Kids all around the world are left like that millions of times a day and nothing happens.

This case had a criminal who was willing to steal a child as the main ingredient. That is the issue here, not that they were unsupervised as millions are.

2 and 3 year olds should not be left alone in a house (or apartment) at night while parents go out for dinner and drinks, i would have thought that atleast was indisputable. Whether or not other people do it is irrelevant, they shouldn't, it's irresponsible and neglectful

[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by Catweazel

Sample size of one is no sample. Kids all around the world are left like that millions of times a day and nothing happens.

This case had a criminal who was willing to steal a child as the main ingredient. That is the issue here, not that they were unsupervised as millions are.

Exactly. Nothing happens. But to take the chance *is* neglect.

Steal a child as the main ingredient? Surely the only ingredient, as no valuables were touched.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Jezzy

In the Shannon Matthews case, the dogs alerted to there having been a corpse. Obviously it wasn't Shannon's, yet there had been deaths there. The Ocean Club categorically stated that there had been NO deaths in that apartment prior to Madeleine's case.

No there hadn't been deaths in the Matthews case.. There was second hand furniture in the house which had previously been in a house where somebody had died.

[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by Lee.

Where did they hide the body?

In Gerry's sports bag, in the wardrobe.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Catweazel

Sample size of one is no sample. Kids all around the world are left like that millions of times a day and nothing happens.

This case had a criminal who was willing to steal a child as the main ingredient. That is the issue here, not that they were unsupervised as millions are.

Totally disagree, and the fact that many other parents are negligent too doesnt take away from the parents bearing at the very least some responsibility for this, whatever happened that night.

[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by Lee.

No there hadn't been deaths in the Matthews case.. There was second hand furniture in the house which had previously been in a house where somebody had died.

So, you agree that they were smelling death?

[Livia]

Wow... this thread. Sometimes the Internet sucks the big one.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

2 and 3 year olds should not be left alone in a house (or apartment) at night while parents go out for dinner and drinks, i would have thought that atleast was indisputable. Whether or not other people do it is irrelevant, they shouldn't, it's irresponsible and neglectful

The distance and situation led them to judge it safe and had there not been a psychopathic paedophile or some such crazy there it would have been fine - for all we know the child could have been taken in the following days at the beach or in a shop - I very much doubt that it was the situation that chanced the action, rather it was a premeditated act.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Jezzy

In Gerry's sports bag, in the wardrobe.

Oh right.. How long for? When did they move it? Where did they move it to??

[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

YOu of all people have the cheek to call ME arrogant ? that takes the biscuit, but I see with your very limited knowledge of this case, you have fallen for the "children left alone"lie, the children were NEVER left alone until that final night, but by then Maddie was already dead, that night was done to give them alibis,and so if McCann admitted neglect, they could then claim abduction ,without that they could not ,education is a wonderful thing ,try it

Chuff, you know I am generally with you on this. But if they were not previously left alone, why is there no night creche record of the McCann children?

It is an interesting theory that she died before the night in question, due to conflicting eyewitness reports, but I need you to elaborate on how it is known they were not left alone before. (Please )

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Catweazel

The distance and situation led them to judge it safe and had there not been a psychopathic paedophile or some such crazy there it would have been fine - for all we know the child could have been taken in the following days at the beach or in a shop - I very much doubt that it was the situation that chanced the action, rather it was a premeditated act.

On this we agree. IF it was a randomer taking Maddie, it was premeditated. And they knew there would be a chance to do so as they had watched the parents night after night previously leaving the kids unsupervised, so they knew they would be able to take her that night.

Also to say leaving young kids alone would have been fine if not for the abductor lurking..well..so many things could go wrong even without that, hat a normal parent would think of. The kids waking up and wandering off, a fire, an accident...

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Totally disagree, and the fact that many other parents are negligent too doesnt take away from the parents bearing at the very least some responsibility for this, whatever happened that night.

negligent in your eyes. have you brought up children yet?

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Lee.

Oh right.. How long for? When did they move it? Where did they move it to??

Maybe in the fridge that he dumped ,yet it wasn't his fridge to dump,Oh blimey I don't know Lee,but so many things don't add up,did you know about the fridge?

[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by Lee.

Oh right.. How long for? When did they move it? Where did they move it to??

I don't have all the answers or this case would have been closed long ago. But :http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...f-inquiry.html

We know that the McCanns played tennis every day.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Catweazel

negligent in your eyes. have you brought up children yet?

Yes I have and I would never leave my child alone so I could go out on the piss. To deny this is negligence is just ridiculous. Even the most vocal of the mccann supporters admit that they (and their friends who also left young kids alone) were negligent.

[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by Catweazel

negligent in your eyes. have you brought up children yet?

I have. I would never have dreamt of leaving them alone.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Jezzy

I have. I would never have dreamt of leaving them alone.

What do you mean by leave them alone?

Would you go to the end of your garden on a summer night if they were asleep?

[Vicky.]

Sorry but if anyone agrees that it is perfectly fine to leave young kids alone so you can go for a meal/out on the drink..especially in a foreign country and AFTER your child already told you they were crying alone for hours the night before...then they arent fit to be a parent themselves.

[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Maybe in the fridge that he dumped ,yet it wasn't his fridge to dump,Oh blimey I don't know Lee,but so many things don't add up,did you know about the fridge?

Kaz, do you have a link? I haven't read anything about the fridge yet, but I would be interested.

[Jezzy]

Originally Posted by Catweazel

What do you mean by leave them alone?

Would you go to the end of your garden on a summer night if they were asleep?

Yup, if I had the baby monitor with me.

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

YOu of all people have the cheek to call ME arrogant ? that takes the biscuit, but I see with your very limited knowledge of this case, you have fallen for the "children left alone"lie, the children were NEVER left alone until that final night, but by then Maddie was already dead, that night was done to give them alibis,and so if McCann admitted neglect, they could then claim abduction ,without that they could not ,education is a wonderful thing ,try it

I din't call you arrogant. I said "your continued arrogance on this subject...."

And here we go again - you have to be right on this subject, because you have too much invested in it. You're right, and everyone else is wrong. Education has standards in place as a guide to gauge the truth/voracity/ability to explain complex ideas etc. You screaming "they did it" doesn't meet any of those requirements - especially in law.