[Livia]

Originally Posted by Mazz01

Oh that's okay, because you wont be able to find anything relating to enema's being fashionable in the 1960's, so there goes your theory?

Simply saying Oh well, you won't find anything anyway doesn't disprove my theory, it just means you either haven't looked, or you haven't looked in the right place. If your friend hasn't looked into Nembutal enemas, especially considering the toxicology report following Marilyn Monroe's death, then she's missing a great bit chunk of info.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Mazz01

I think you need to show your source's that those tapes at Marilyn's house did actual exist...and no need for you to be so defensive as you can not prove what you say is right?

I'm not being 'defensive' - I am sure of my position and the very real reasons behind it.

I am beginning to suspect that you are merely a troll because you will not answer one single question but instead just repeat yourself - that is not debate.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Livia

Simply saying Oh well, you won't find anything anyway doesn't disprove my theory, it just means you either haven't looked, or you haven't looked in the right place. If your friend hasn't looked into Nembutal enemas, especially considering the toxicology report following Marilyn Monroe's death, then she's missing a great bit chunk of info.

Some reearch for a book on the subject eh Livia?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Some reearch for a book on the subject eh Livia?

It's obviously a work of fiction.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by NovoBaratheon

She is still alive hiding out in Costa Rica

Riding Shergar with Elvis at the back of her and Lord Lucan shouting his support from the 92nd floor of a nearby vanilla skyscraper.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Livia

It's obviously a work of fiction.

That's my girl.

[Mazz01]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

There were several witnesses who had heard these tapes on the Channel 5 documentary which you purport to have studied. How did you miss them? Ray Strait listened to over 11 hours of these tapes.

Fred Otash secreted the tapes but upon his death the Secret Service stripped all three properties which Otash owned and the tapes - along with other documents - disappeared never to be seen again. At the same time, a filing cabinet containing Otash's most sensitive material was taken from his apartment by his lawyer and the contents of that too was never seen again.

I'm not trying to cause any bad feelings but again why are you believing these people'' why has there not been any official report to back Otash claims of these tapes i'm sure he has also made alot of money from his stories, Marilyn had lived in her house for nearly six months how did these people gain access to her property how was that possible? how would they had carried out their bugging devices in the house because Marilyn had never left that house unattended for long when she went out to the film studio, seems odd that this had all happened under Marilyn's nose without any suspicion going on?

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

The evidence from varied sources that these tapes existed is compelling, which is one of the reasons why I personally believe that they existed. Fred Otash's 1966 law suite to have them returned is conclusive proof.

Because they existed, and because there is also compelling evidence that Otash did bug Marilyn's house (as he bugged Rock Hudson's and others) and because the witnesses who claim to have heard the tapes come across as honest and very credible, and because their links to Otash and Marilyn are proven, then I also believe what they say regarding the contents of the tapes.

Again Mazz - what source do you rely on for you not to believe all this very credible evidence and testimony?

You keep saying these tapes existed but you have never seen them or even listened to them...? seems strange that you would believe such claims, i was hoping that the channel 5 program might of had some real actual evidence to prove that these theories were actually true, but that program set out to make people believe what they had found was going to be explosive, but sadly they couldn't show the tapes because they did Not even exist?

[Mazz01]

Originally Posted by Livia

It's obviously a work of fiction.

I think your own claims maybe fiction,

[Mazz01]

Originally Posted by Livia

Simply saying Oh well, you won't find anything anyway doesn't disprove my theory, it just means you either haven't looked, or you haven't looked in the right place. If your friend hasn't looked into Nembutal enemas, especially considering the toxicology report following Marilyn Monroe's death, then she's missing a great bit chunk of info.

But the point is you wont be able to find anything relating to it? meaning it was simply not that fashionable in the 60's as you had thought?

[Mazz01]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I'm not being 'defensive' - I am sure of my position and the very real reasons behind it.

I am beginning to suspect that you are merely a troll because you will not answer one single question but instead just repeat yourself - that is not debate.

I'm merely stating FACTS which you don't agree with and that is fine, as you have also demonstrated that you now feel threatened by my posts? you have not been able to provide anything substantial has being real evidence so i think i will leave this discussion for now?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Mazz01

I think your own claims maybe fiction,

I'm not actually claiming anything though... just putting forward an alternative view that has as much credence as anything you've written so far.

Originally Posted by Mazz01

But the point is you wont be able to find anything relating to it? meaning it was simply not that fashionable in the 60's as you had thought?

And my point is... enemas and laxatives were fashionable in Hollywood for decades. They probably still are, along with the cabbage soup diet, bulimia, anorexia, diuretics, appetite suppressants and all the other things people have used to keep them thin.

Anyway, we're going round in circles. One of us may be right, all of us may be wrong. The difference is that I accept that.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Mazz01

I'm merely stating FACTS which you don't agree with and that is fine, as you have also demonstrated that you now feel threatened by my posts? you are not been able to provide anything substantially has being actual evidence so i think i will leave this discussion for now?

You have opinions and conjecture formed from interpreting information written fifty years ago. You believing them doesn't make them facts.

[Mazz01]

Originally Posted by Livia

I'm not actually claiming anything though... just putting forward an alternative view that has as much credence as anything you've written so far.



And my point is... enemas and laxatives were fashionable in Hollywood for decades. They probably still are, along with the cabbage soup diet, bulimia, anorexia, diuretics, appetite suppressants and all the other things people have used to keep them thin.

Anyway, we're going round in circles. One of us may be right, all of us may be wrong. The difference is that I accept that.

yes and you maybe right as well, i wasn't on here trying to start fights

[Cal.]

If you're so adamant your friend has never read up on these enemas - then they clearly haven't been doing very good research considering the subject is brought up in pretty much every speculation article on Marilyn's death. A brief Google search brings me to that conclusion.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Mazz01

I'm merely stating FACTS which you don't agree with and that is fine, as you have also demonstrated that you now feel threatened by my posts? you have not been able to provide anything substantially has being actual real evidence so i thinki will leave this discussion for now?

You flatter yourself. I am most certainly not threatened by your posts because up to now you have not posted anything but contentions without any corroborating evidence in support of what you contend, and yet that does not stop you from repeatedly claiming those unsupported contentions as 'FACT'.

What's more, because of the above, this hasn't been a 'discussion' , and yet, I don't want you to 'leave it', I want you to debate in a proper manner, otherwise this 'round robin' of unanswered points and unsubstantiated theories repeatedly being passed off as 'facts', is futile.

Nor do I want to have a row with you - no one on here does.

[Mazz01]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

people cannot accept that someone famous dies a dull and boring death
she did, move on

I absolutely agree with you on that she died from the OD by her own hands, some of the conspiracy camp on here have not even read any of the information about the official autopsy report... if they had it would clear up alot of their misinformation?