[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

This is an interesting read about the 25th of December...
https://thinkerfromiowa.wordpress.co...n-december-25/

Just words like the Bible Johnny,we chose what we believe,there is no proof either way.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Just words like the Bible Johnny,we chose what we believe,there is no proof either way.

Yeaah Kaz - absolutely right.

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Just words like the Bible Johnny,we chose what we believe,there is no proof either way.

Kaz what this guy is writing about is based on historical evidence from centuries of research that pre date christianity. All of these Gods were born on the 25th of December, many from a virgin birth with lots of other similar traits to what christianity is today. More importantly they all were here long before christianity.
TBH If i had written it then you make a fair point Kaz.
But i didn't write it. Historians did

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

Kaz what this guy is writing about is based on historical evidence from centuries of research that pre date christianity. All of these Gods were born on the 25th of December, many from a virgin birth with lots of other similar traits to what christianity is today. More importantly they all were here long before christianity.
TBH If i had written it then you make a fair point Kaz.
But i didn't write it. Historians did

It's still doesn't make it fact Johnny, people have their own beliefs (or not) nothing will change that, who's to say those historians didn't fabricate and add bits here and there,lol

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

It's still doesn't make it fact Johnny, people have their own beliefs (or not) nothing will change that, who's to say those historians didn't fabricate and add bits here and there,lol

His post is based on historical facts Kaz. He simply gathered those facts and reposted them onto his own website. They are facts regardless of anyone choosing to believe in them or not, they are still historical facts.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

His post is based on historical facts Kaz. He simply gathered those facts and reposted them onto his own website. They are facts regardless of anyone choosing to believe in them or not, they are still historical facts.

Different strokes for different folks I guess Johnny,I'm gonna buy LT an Easter egg and see if he eats it

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Different strokes for different folks I guess Johnny,I'm gonna buy LT an Easter egg and see if he eats it

See if you can find one shaped like a cross like this for LT.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

See if you can find one shaped like a cross like this for LT.

nice one,but I'm mortally offended

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

It's still doesn't make it fact Johnny, people have their own beliefs (or not) nothing will change that, who's to say those historians didn't fabricate and add bits here and there,lol

I wrote several long posts on this very subject a while back Kaz but I cannot be arsed looking for it TBH.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I wrote several long posts on this very subject a while back Kaz but I cannot be arsed looking for it TBH.

It IS a long thread , but a good one ,I've enjoyed it,I just hope LT doesn't shoot the Easter Bunny

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

It IS a long thread , but a good one ,I've enjoyed it,I just hope LT doesn't shoot the Easter Bunny

Agreed!

image hosting over 10mb

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

Agreed!

image hosting over 10mb

Love that Johnny,I'm nicking it

[DemolitionRed]

I was listening to an interview on the radio at work this afternoon and although I don't consider myself a Christian, I found myself agreeing with the person who was pro the advert.

For those who need to keep stating that religion isn't real, that its just a fable, you need to understand that Christianity is a very real thing for those who practice this faith. To try and convince them otherwise is disrespectful.

We can argue that Christmas is a Pagan festival but that's by the by. If you are Pagan and Christmas day is one of your Pagan festivals that's great. If you are a Christian and Christmas day is one of your Christian festivals, that's great too and if you're an atheist, agnostic, or other religion that just wants to join in the festivities with no thought about what the day represents, then nobody is going to knock you for it.

As for the advert, the more I think about it the more I believe it should be allowed and even praised. Christmas has been hijacked. If everyone else can advertise to the consumer to buy, buy, buy for Christmas, why on earth would we object to the Christian church, the very thing Christmas was born from, not be able to advertise ?

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I was listening to an interview on the radio at work this afternoon and although I don't consider myself a Christian, I found myself agreeing with the person who was pro the advert.

For those who need to keep stating that religion isn't real, that its just a fable, you need to understand that Christianity is a very real thing for those who practice this faith. To try and convince them otherwise is disrespectful.

We can argue that Christmas is a Pagan festival but that's by the by. If you are Pagan and Christmas day is one of your Pagan festivals that's great. If you are a Christian and Christmas day is one of your Christian festivals, that's great too and if you're an atheist, agnostic, or other religion that just wants to join in the festivities with no thought about what the day represents, then nobody is going to knock you for it.

As for the advert, the more I think about it the more I believe it should be allowed and even praised. Christmas has been hijacked. If everyone else can advertise to the consumer to buy, buy, buy for Christmas, why on earth would we object to the Christian church, the very thing Christmas was born from, not be able to advertise ?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I was listening to an interview on the radio at work this afternoon and although I don't consider myself a Christian, I found myself agreeing with the person who was pro the advert.

For those who need to keep stating that religion isn't real, that its just a fable, you need to understand that Christianity is a very real thing for those who practice this faith. To try and convince them otherwise is disrespectful.

We can argue that Christmas is a Pagan festival but that's by the by. If you are Pagan and Christmas day is one of your Pagan festivals that's great. If you are a Christian and Christmas day is one of your Christian festivals, that's great too and if you're an atheist, agnostic, or other religion that just wants to join in the festivities with no thought about what the day represents, then nobody is going to knock you for it.

As for the advert, the more I think about it the more I believe it should be allowed and even praised. Christmas has been hijacked. If everyone else can advertise to the consumer to buy, buy, buy for Christmas, why on earth would we object to the Christian church, the very thing Christmas was born from, not be able to advertise ?

What a fantastically argued post.

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I was listening to an interview on the radio at work this afternoon and although I don't consider myself a Christian, I found myself agreeing with the person who was pro the advert.

For those who need to keep stating that religion isn't real, that its just a fable, you need to understand that Christianity is a very real thing for those who practice this faith. To try and convince them otherwise is disrespectful.

We can argue that Christmas is a Pagan festival but that's by the by. If you are Pagan and Christmas day is one of your Pagan festivals that's great. If you are a Christian and Christmas day is one of your Christian festivals, that's great too and if you're an atheist, agnostic, or other religion that just wants to join in the festivities with no thought about what the day represents, then nobody is going to knock you for it.

As for the advert, the more I think about it the more I believe it should be allowed and even praised. Christmas has been hijacked. If everyone else can advertise to the consumer to buy, buy, buy for Christmas, why on earth would we object to the Christian church, the very thing Christmas was born from, not be able to advertise ?

This is not true and certainly not a fact. Christianity did not celebrate Christmas for centuries, in fact they were totally against it for centuries. The date Jesus was born has still not been indentified. The nearest date they have to this birth date is september or october. Why am i saying this...Sheperds in that region always kept their cattle indoors during the winter months. There is a passage in the bible that mentions cattle out door whilst talking about the birth of Jesus. Many people agree (none believers and believers) that his birth, if he did exist, would fall months before december and NOT on the exact same day as dozens of other gods before him. So Christmas was NOT born from Christianity. The rest of your post is interesting, i agree with everyone just enjoying the holiday for what it is, a holiday to spend time with your family and loved ones.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

This is not true and certainly not a fact. Christianity did not celebrate Christmas for centuries, in fact they were totally against it for centuries. The date Jesus was born has still not been indentified. The nearest date they have to this birth date is september or october. Why am i saying this...Sheperds in that region always kept their cattle indoors during the winter months. There is a passage in the bible that mentions cattle out door whilst talking about the birth of Jesus. Many people agree (none believers and believers) that his birth, if he did exist, would fall months before december and NOT on the exact same day as dozens of other gods before him. So Christmas was NOT born from Christianity. The rest of your post is interesting, i agree with everyone just enjoying the holiday for what it is, a holiday to spend time with your family and loved ones.

I'm pretty well up on where Christmas started. The New Testament has no birth date for Jesus and yes, the 25th December is officially the adopted birth date of Christ. I fully understand the reasons why this date was picked so you really don't need to educate me on this subject.

I accept that the Christians borrowed a date from Saturnalia but Christmas has been part of the Christian faith since the 4th century and that's a very long time. It wasn't banned by Christians, it was banned by the Roman Pagans but still quietly practised; enough in fact that we still have it now.

Christmas today doesn't represent the Christmas of old but what it morphed into was a day of peace and goodwill, at least for Christians....Why would any of us try to condemn that?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I'm pretty well up on where Christmas started. The New Testament has no birth date for Jesus and yes, the 25th December is officially the adopted birth date of Christ. I fully understand the reasons why this date was picked so you really don't need to educate me on this subject.

I accept that the Christians borrowed a date from Saturnalia but Christmas has been part of the Christian faith since the 4th century and that's a very long time. It wasn't banned by Christians, it was banned by the Roman Pagans but still quietly practised; enough in fact that we still have it now.

Christmas today doesn't represent the Christmas of old but what it morphed into was a day of peace and goodwill, at least for Christians....Why would any of us try to condemn that?

its a day of celebration as the winter is on the wane and the nights are getting lighter

it has far far more to do with out pagan roots than ever it will with christianity

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

its a day of celebration as the winter is on the wane and the nights are getting lighter

it has far far more to do with out pagan roots than ever it will with christianity

Was that an error?

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I'm pretty well up on where Christmas started. The New Testament has no birth date for Jesus and yes, the 25th December is officially the adopted birth date of Christ. I fully understand the reasons why this date was picked so you really don't need to educate me on this subject.

I accept that the Christians borrowed a date from Saturnalia but Christmas has been part of the Christian faith since the 4th century and that's a very long time. It wasn't banned by Christians, it was banned by the Roman Pagans but still quietly practised; enough in fact that we still have it now.

Christmas today doesn't represent the Christmas of old but what it morphed into was a day of peace and goodwill, at least for Christians....Why would any of us try to condemn that?

So we actually both agree that this person was not born on the 25th of december. Thanks.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I'm pretty well up on where Christmas started. The New Testament has no birth date for Jesus and yes, the 25th December is officially the adopted birth date of Christ. I fully understand the reasons why this date was picked so you really don't need to educate me on this subject.

I accept that the Christians borrowed a date from Saturnalia but Christmas has been part of the Christian faith since the 4th century and that's a very long time. It wasn't banned by Christians, it was banned by the Roman Pagans but still quietly practised; enough in fact that we still have it now.

Christmas today doesn't represent the Christmas of old but what it morphed into was a day of peace and goodwill, at least for Christians....Why would any of us try to condemn that?

Red, I know that you and me have often got heated when arguing, but I DO respect you, your intellect, and your knowledge, so I want to give you some advice - once these 'Religious' threads descend into nothing more than a 'piss takers orgy' -- as they always do -- do not bother trying to communicate. It is futile. And no one knows better than I do.

You can destroy a fallacy with evidenced truth and it will not make one iota of difference.

Bow out love - this is no longer a 'Serious Debate' and the way it has descended into farce is not 'News'.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Red, I know that you and me have often got heated when arguing, but I DO respect you, your intellect, and your knowledge, so I want to give you some advice - once these 'Religious' threads descend into nothing more than a 'piss takers orgy' -- as they always do -- do not bother trying to communicate. It is futile. And no one knows better than I do.

You can destroy a fallacy with evidenced truth and it will not make one iota of difference.

Bow out love - this is no longer a 'Serious Debate' and the way it has descended into farce is not 'News'.

Thanks for that Kirk, though I have to say, because I'm not passionate about religion or none religion for that matter, this isn't the sort of discussion that frustrates me. It just baffles me and that's what keeps me here

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Red, I know that you and me have often got heated when arguing, but I DO respect you, your intellect, and your knowledge, so I want to give you some advice - once these 'Religious' threads descend into nothing more than a 'piss takers orgy' -- as they always do -- do not bother trying to communicate. It is futile. And no one knows better than I do.

You can destroy a fallacy with evidenced truth and it will not make one iota of difference.

Bow out love - this is no longer a 'Serious Debate' and the way it has descended into farce is not 'News'.

I disagree Kirk, It is still a serious debate and with very different view points and all valid points from both sides that make it interesting. Talking on subjects like this is very good and helps people posting along with those just reading to come to their own decisions on matters like this which can only be a good thing. There are many things i could say in this thread that would simply offend people so i choose not too say those things. That is the last thing i would want to do to people on here or anywhere. BUT... When questions are raised eg: how do you fit 8.7million animals into a 500 foot wooden boat and people do not respond to it with an honest answer then that to me is wrong.
I love to learn and if i am wrong i simply accept it, no problem at all and i am wrong many many times.

Just think about this Kirk...

If the original poster removed the word (Christian) and replaced it with Muslim this thread would be a very different thread and closed asap.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I was listening to an interview on the radio at work this afternoon and although I don't consider myself a Christian, I found myself agreeing with the person who was pro the advert.

For those who need to keep stating that religion isn't real, that its just a fable, you need to understand that Christianity is a very real thing for those who practice this faith. To try and convince them otherwise is disrespectful.

We can argue that Christmas is a Pagan festival but that's by the by. If you are Pagan and Christmas day is one of your Pagan festivals that's great. If you are a Christian and Christmas day is one of your Christian festivals, that's great too and if you're an atheist, agnostic, or other religion that just wants to join in the festivities with no thought about what the day represents, then nobody is going to knock you for it.

As for the advert, the more I think about it the more I believe it should be allowed and even praised. Christmas has been hijacked. If everyone else can advertise to the consumer to buy, buy, buy for Christmas, why on earth would we object to the Christian church, the very thing Christmas was born from, not be able to advertise ?

I heard that argument as well and it's very valid