[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..the two are not comparable at all though because a crime/murder had occurred and a murderer had been charged and sentenced and it was described as an 'unprecedented thriller series' and made to invite theories and speculations etc...I'm not going to divert the thread anymore with Making of a Murderer because it has no connection to any similarities with Madeleine's disappearance whatsoever...and to make any connection at all and relate it to anyone else's opinions was extremely shabby...imo of course...

It doesn't matter though if that's what the documentary wanted from a person, there's plenty of documentaries made too about Maddie McCann, some wanting you to think one way and some wanting you to think another. The difference being that no one actually knows what happened to the victim in the McCann case, nevermind who was responsible (although clearly some of that responsibility lies with her parents regardless of what happened that night imo)

Actually, I was thinking earlier what peoples opinions would be if the scenario was slightly different and instead of Maddie just disappearing without a trace she got up looking for her parents, couldn't find them so went out the unlocked patio door and fell in the pool and drowned while trying to find them. I wonder what peoples opinions on that situation would be? Would they still find the McCanns to be blameless?

[Crimson Dynamo]

All 3 couples Inc the McCann's thought it was safe to leave there kids in the apartment and check on them every half hour. People may not like that but it's not illegal. If they owners had told them there had been 2 incidents of intrusion in the last month they would not have done this.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

All 3 couples Inc the McCann's thought it was safe to leave there kids in the apartment and check on them every half hour. People may not like that but it's not illegal. If they owners had told them there had been 2 incidents of intrusion in the last month they would not have done this.

I'm pretty sure it is illegal to leave 3 kids under the age of 4 home alone

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

All 3 couples Inc the McCann's thought it was safe to leave there kids in the apartment and check on them every half hour. People may not like that but it's not illegal. If they owners had told them there had been 2 incidents of intrusion in the last month they would not have done this.

This is an honest question LT but when your children were that young did you ever take them abroad on holiday and if so did you ever go out to the pub/restaurant without them?

Anytime we ever took the kids on holiday, we always brought them with us in the evenings when we went to eat as does pretty much everyone I know who has young kids

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I'm pretty sure it is illegal to leave 3 kids under the age of 4 home alone

They didn't tho. They were in an apartment complex.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

They didn't tho. They were in an apartment complex.

They were in a restaurant and left the kids alone in their holiday apartment with the door unlocked......with a pool on the door step practically ......... after Maddie had previously told her parents she woke up scared and alone and crying the night before........but yeah carry on defending that and telling us that all parents would do it, you can speak for yourself cos I sure as hell never did. And noI'm by no means a "perfect parent" but that was gross neglect, selfishness and callousness

[T*]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

They didn't tho. They were in an apartment complex.

It's still child neglect no matter where they are

[T*]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

They were in a restaurant and left the kids alone in their holiday apartment with the door unlocked......with a pool on the door step practically ......... after Maddie had previously told her parents she woke up scared and alone and crying the night before........but yeah carry on defending that and telling us that all parents would do it, you can speak for yourself cos I sure as hell never did. And noI'm by no means a "perfect parent" but that was gross neglect, selfishness and callousness

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

They were in a restaurant and left the kids alone in their holiday apartment with the door unlocked......with a pool on the door step practically ......... after Maddie had previously told her parents she woke up scared and alone and crying the night before........but yeah carry on defending that and telling us that all parents would do it, you can speak for yourself cos I sure as hell never did. And noI'm by no means a "perfect parent" but that was gross neglect, selfishness and callousness

Excellent post.
Leaving just Maddie alone was bad enough but leaving her with 2 younger children in the same place too, should be criminal.

[T*]

Like seriously kids can do harm especially at that age if you leave them alone for like 5 minutes

It's 100% neglect

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

All 3 couples Inc the McCann's thought it was safe to leave there kids in the apartment and check on them every half hour. People may not like that but it's not illegal. If they owners had told them there had been 2 incidents of intrusion in the last month they would not have done this.

If a parent was caught leaving their young child home alone whilst popping round the corner to their local it most certainly would be illegal. I don't see how this scenario is different just because they were in a holiday complex.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

All 3 couples Inc the McCann's thought it was safe to leave there kids in the apartment and check on them every half hour. People may not like that but it's not illegal. If they owners had told them there had been 2 incidents of intrusion in the last month they would not have done this.

All the couples thought it was fine? Not sure what your point is there. All three couples were wrong, all three should have known better. Doing something reckless "because everyone else was doing it" is hardly a new thing, but it's just as stupid as it ever was.

As for it "not being illegal" - again, so what? Since when are the boundaries of morality or risk entirely within the confines of legality? We could sit here all day listing stupid, reckless **** that is technically legal.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

All 3 couples Inc the McCann's thought it was safe to leave there kids in the apartment and check on them every half hour. People may not like that but it's not illegal. If they owners had told them there had been 2 incidents of intrusion in the last month they would not have done this.

I doubt it. They continued to leave the kids alone even after Maddie told them she'd tried to find them the night before and cried herself silly. Even though their apartment was accessible from the street and none of the doors were locked.

There are dangers inside a home far more immediate to a child of that age than potential outside dangers so that's no excuse imo.

[lime]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

It doesn't matter though if that's what the documentary wanted from a person, there's plenty of documentaries made too about Maddie McCann, some wanting you to think one way and some wanting you to think another. The difference being that no one actually knows what happened to the victim in the McCann case, nevermind who was responsible (although clearly some of that responsibility lies with her parents regardless of what happened that night imo)

Actually, I was thinking earlier what peoples opinions would be if the scenario was slightly different and instead of Maddie just disappearing without a trace she got up looking for her parents, couldn't find them so went out the unlocked patio door and fell in the pool and drowned while trying to find them. I wonder what peoples opinions on that situation would be? Would they still find the McCanns to be blameless?

totally agree Niamh..I have no idea what happened to this poor child ...what I do know is that she would be safe if it wasn't for the neglect of her parents.I am by no means the perfect parent mine are boys 24,23,20 and an 11yr old girl.I would be sick to my stomach if I was neglectful enough to leave them unsupervised....and then even though Maddie cried to her parents about waking up without them being there ....to carry on being so neglectful is showing me ...something isn't right there

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I doubt it. They continued to leave the kids alone even after Maddie told them she'd tried to find them the night before and cried herself silly. Even though their apartment was accessible from the street and none of the doors were locked.

There are dangers inside a home far more immediate to a child of that age than potential outside dangers so that's no excuse imo.

Exactly. And what exactly was the purpose of the open Patio door? It was only an extra danger to the kids, besides the fact that anyone could just walk straight in, Maddie could walk straight out, fall in the pool, get run over by a car, fall and injury herself etc etc What if there was a fire in the apartment?

[Jack_]

Well I don't know what happened to my initial post in my thread but looks like I was right eight pages...good going

Anyway the crux of the issue is that regardless of whether the McCann's are guilty or not, the overly sympathetic, can-do-no-wrong attitude they are afforded by you, the media and the large majority of people who take an interest in this story is nothing more than class based privilege. How could two well educated doctors play any role in the disappearance of their child? That kind of thing just doesn't happen to 'people like them'. Replace them with two parents living on a council estate in Bradford and I'm sure the attitudes would be very different. In fact, for proof of this you only need to look at the Shannon Matthews case. A similar time, yet completely different reporting and discussion of it.

The McCann story is a classic case of missing white girl syndrome and as sad it is, the overexposure of this story over the years has been completely ludicrous

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by lime

totally agree Niamh..I have no idea what happened to this poor child ...what I do know is that she would be safe if it wasn't for the neglect of her parents.I am by no means the perfect parent mine are boys 24,23,20 and an 11yr old girl.I would be sick to my stomach if I was neglectful enough to leave them unsupervised....and then even though Maddie cried to her parents about waking up without them being there ....to carry on being so neglectful is showing me ...something isn't right there

Oh that's a big gap! I bet those are very over protective big brothers

And yeah, I guess, especially after Maddie had told them she woke up and was scared and crying and they still did it after that is what gets me even more than anything. I would be horrified with myself and consumed with guilt for just that incident alone

[Z]

They are the worst and I am sicking of hearing from them, I am sick of seeing their detestable faces claiming they have a feeling that they might know that she's probably still maybe where they definitely last saw her but perhaps was always there but never left but might not be there at all. No. Stop it. I'm convinced they know more than they've let on and I'm convinced that they should be in jail for the massive amount of resources they have wasted through their lack of cooperation for THEIR MISSING CHILD. It makes me so angry and if by some miracle they find Madeleine McCann alive and well, I hope they never get her back. They make me so angry.

[lime]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Oh that's a big gap! I bet those are very over protective big brothers

And yeah, I guess, especially after Maddie had told them she woke up and was scared and crying and they still did it after that is what gets me even more than anything. I would be horrified with myself and consumed with guilt for just that incident alone

yeah ..probalby a little over protective....But you know what as a parent even still when the lads are working away (the two oldest) or when my youngest lad goes away with his mates for the weekend...I still worry about them..so how a parent can sit down and eat a plate of food knowing that these babies were alone in a strange country is beyond me

[Josy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

All 3 couples Inc the McCann's thought it was safe to leave there kids in the apartment and check on them every half hour. People may not like that but it's not illegal. If they owners had told them there had been 2 incidents of intrusion in the last month they would not have done this.

Yes it is.

And if it was Betty the single mum from the scheme that done the same thing she would have been charged with neglect.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Josy

Yes it is.

And if it was Betty the single mum from the scheme that done the same thing she would have been charged with neglect.

Conjecture. As James pointed out

There has been unprecedented hste for Kate for being middle class thin attractive and not hysterical and mawkish

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

I don't think it's fair comparing the Bulger case to this. As terrible as it was Denise knows what happened to her son. Not knowing must be 10x worst. And thinking that your neglect had a part to play in this must kill inside.

[Josy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Conjecture. As James pointed out

There has been unprecedented hste for Kate for being middle class thin attractive and not hysterical and mawkish

I've seen plenty of well thought out explained opinions on why people aren't so keen on Kate McCann, none of it relating to her looks, weight or class.

No reply to the fact that is indeed illegal to leave children of that age unsupervised then?

[lime]

Originally Posted by Z

They are the worst and I am sicking of hearing from them, I am sick of seeing their detestable faces claiming they have a feeling that they might know that she's probably still maybe where they definitely last saw her but perhaps was always there but never left but might not be there at all. No. Stop it. I'm convinced they know more than they've let on and I'm convinced that they should be in jail for the massive amount of resources they have wasted through their lack of cooperation for THEIR MISSING CHILD. It makes me so angry and if by some miracle they find Madeleine McCann alive and well, I hope they never get her back. They make me so angry.

I hate to admit it but I have to agree ...it's just a gut feeling ..I think they know what happend to this poor child.I also belive in innocent untill proven guilty...we could have perhaps judged better if we had of heard what thy had to say in court...how they were never brought to court over their neglcet is frustating

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Exactly. And what exactly was the purpose of the open Patio door? It was only an extra danger to the kids, besides the fact that anyone could just walk straight in, Maddie could walk straight out, fall in the pool, get run over by a car, fall and injury herself etc etc What if there was a fire in the apartment?

Yeah, I don't see how anyone can justify their decision.