[arista]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...you can't really show them a 'great future', Arista..that's something that they'll have to feel and experience themselves and hopefully they will../that would be the only right result ...actually just hold your flight for a little while because one of the big positives that has come out of the whole referendum process and a great thing is that according to the UEA..(and hopefully many unis..)...there has been a huge rise in the study of politics...some great young future politicians, which is always something that is needed, whatever the result and whatever the party, eh..


...anyways, I wish you good day sir, as I have to go start my day now...I hope that you have a lovely day....

Of Course

But its good to let them Aspire

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by arista

..if I were to give the children anything, it would be a British product and supporting British industry...and not a cheap export thing, Arista...which may or may not involve exploitation in the making of.../not a great choice for children especially, my friend...

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

No the 5 Year Fixed Term Election
stays in place
Do not get in a tangle there Joey

That can and you know it can be easily repealed in these circumstances arista.

They cannot hide behind that one,that was only to ensure to the Conservative/LibDem coalition lasted the course of 5 years.

It would take a small amount of time to repeal it.

However, there could be an election without it if the MPs decided to call one, the problem there is the oppositions would need 130 Conservative MPs to vote for one.
As 434 MPs have to support the calling of an election.

No tangle to get into arista for me, just right and what should be done.
No way can this new PM have a mandate or authority to see this massive constitutional change started and seen through, unless they get their own mandate or involve equally all parties in parliament in the full process.

Their mandate was only to hold a referendum, not deal with the consequences.
This is also not a legally binding referendum on the govt arista.

I would dare bet if this was Labour in govt at this time, you would now be screaming for a new election again too,as you did with Brown, with another change of PM while in office.
This would be worse than Brown as this govt is only just over a year into its term.

[arista]

Fixed Term
was set up
No one is standing behind it

Its Legal Tender

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

Fixed Term
was set up
No one is standing behind it

Its Legal Tender

How convenient, then never again with respect can or should Gordon Brown be termed as being an unelected PM as you have done so for years.
If this MP can be elected by Conservative MPs, Conservative party members but not have to seek the support of the wider electorate.

I said this last week and do so again,clearly then when it suits as to what party is in govt, 2 wrongs can and do in fact make a right.

I do not like UKIP for instance,however I, and indeed no one, can justifiably deny that UKIP and Farage were very instrumental in this campaign and indeed Farage more likely the one who made the referendum possible.
It is then now ridiculous that now in parliament for the probable full time of this dismantling of 43 years in the EU and the planning of trade deals, that only 1 single UKIP MP, is there to represent his party following this result, with no prospect of him being added to.

That is why another election is needed to get the full new framework of opinion as to this result,and what support there is for all the parties involved in this referendum campaign too,as to the best way forward.
That can only be done through a general election.

The whole temperature and status of the UK is going to change from this,an election at this time of chaos, far from making things worse, would actually more likely clear the air as to all, and get the right representation in parliament that the people want too, after their decision on this referendum.
Another 4 or 5 weeks of an election campaign are not going to make that much difference,in my opinion.

Also,if that even means many Labour seats fall to UKIP, if that means Conservative seats fall to UKIP, if that means a stronger Conservative govt, if that means we get a Labour led govt,even if it even means we get a Conservative/UKIP coalition,then so be it.
UKIP particularly ,in fairness to them,as one of the main advocates of this referendum and result, have also a right to be heard more as to it now as democratically elected MPs,if they do get more.

That will not happen with just the one single UKIP MP in Westminster,especially one who only gets booed by Conservative and some other MPs in Westminster too, when he speaks.

I have little time at all for UKIP but the House of Commons has to be updated as to representation of all parties after this referendum result.
How do you do that without an election.

So for me, only a general election can decide that new representative parliament for this massive task, it should not now be decided by just a Conservative party only leadership election.

[arista]

"indeed no one, can justifiably deny that UKIP and Farage
were very instrumental in this campaign
and indeed Farage more likely the one who made the referendum possible."

Yes a Doug is the one UKIP MP
he can voice his view

[arista]

Confirmed today on ITV1HD LIVE

Next Election is Month May 2020

I thank the Lady

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

Confirmed today on ITV1HD LIVE

Next Election is Month May 2020

I thank the Lady

That's what she says now arista, events as this referendum has shown can massively alter the course of what anyone hopes for or even says.
David Cameron was staying until at least 2019, he is going now.

I wouldn't be so sure this wrong act of saying no election until 2020 will be able to be so,when in fact an election may then have to be held at a time forced in 2020,when negotiations as to trading deals are at a critical point if it takes over 4 years or more.

[arista]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

That's what she says now arista, events as this referendum has shown can massively alter the course of what anyone hopes for or even says.
David Cameron was staying until at least 2019, he is going now.

I wouldn't be so sure this wrong act of saying no election until 2020 will be able to be so,when in fact an election may then have to be held at a time forced in 2020,when negotiations as to trading deals are at a critical point if it takes over 4 years or more.

He is Going Now with Valid Reason
not a problem

The EU50 Contract is going ahead this year



Ref: ITV1HD

[user104658]

"Do you want Gove or May?"

"Oh Hello sir, welcome, on offer today we have a sloppy sh*t-sandwich or, if that doesn't tickle your fancy, we have an ice cream cone doused in pig cum. Bon appetite!"

[arista]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

"Do you want Gove or May?"

"Oh Hello sir, welcome, on offer today we have a sloppy sh*t-sandwich or, if that doesn't tickle your fancy, we have an ice cream cone doused in pig cum. Bon appetite!"

Fantastic TS

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

He is Going Now with Valid Reason
not a problem

The EU50 Contract is going ahead this year



Ref: ITV1HD

The very same people going for his job,and now saying only someone on the side of leave should be PM, are the ones who signed a letter asking David Cameron to stay on and see this through.

What a bunch of hypocrites.

I almost honestly believe after this referendum result, that no party or person really wants to govern and certainly not in the National interest whoever does.

[Ammi]

..not sure if this has been posted ...

Theresa May has refused to rule out the deportation of EU nationals living in Britain after the country leaves the European Union, amid fears that guaranteeing their rights at this stage could lead to a “huge influx” of migrants during the Brexit negotiation phase.


http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews...cid=spartandhp

...obviously there is the British nationals living in the EU as well.../..just a mess of uncertainty for people and the lives they have built...

[bots]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..not sure if this has been posted ...

Theresa May has refused to rule out the deportation of EU nationals living in Britain after the country leaves the European Union, amid fears that guaranteeing their rights at this stage could lead to a “huge influx” of migrants during the Brexit negotiation phase.


http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews...cid=spartandhp

...obviously there is the British nationals living in the EU as well.../..just a mess of uncertainty for people and the lives they have built...

Its not so much that she wants immigrants to be deported, she just can't preempt negotiations as it ties our hands.

They are expecting a huge influx prior to any exit, so that has to be manged too.

[Cherie]

Hugely worrying time for non British residents, I'd like to think there would be an amnesty for those resident here at the time of the referendum, but who knows

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Hugely worrying time for non British residents, I'd like to think there would be an amnesty for those resident here at the time of the referendum, but who knows

Exactly, this would be the most sensible solution. Rule out the deportation of anyone who was living and working in the UK at, say, the start of July 2016. Don't rule out the deportation of those who arrive after that time, but make it very clear that this is the case (so that anyone considering migrating here knows the situation before making that decision).

Outright refusing to rule it out is insane. There are people here who have been living here for decades... Many of them have lived in the UK for longer than they lived anywhere else. The UK is their country as much as it is for someone born here.

We have an English woman at work who turned 60 this year, she moved to Scotland when she was 15. She still has a sort of weird hybrid accent but as she's fond of telling younger customers who mention her Englishness; "I'm more Scottish than you are, I've lived here longer!"

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Hugely worrying time for non British residents, I'd like to think there would be an amnesty for those resident here at the time of the referendum, but who knows

There are a lot of people worried Cherie and that is bad in any scenario.

[MTVN]

Think arista is going to need to do a third poll the way its going, Leadsom looking more likely than Gove to face off against May

[Mystic Mock]

I've got to be honest I don't know as May's too authoritarian for my tastes.

And Gove is a complete clown across the board who's been setup by the right wing media into making Boris a "victim."

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by _Tom_

Let's never let this man lead us

If it's the will of the people and the Tories then we can't protest it apparently.

But yeah I agree with you really, I don't want another group being attacked by the Media just to deflect away from the poor leadership that this country is receiving.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by jaxie

How can we possibly have a general election with both Labour and the Tories without any kind of leadership? Both sides need to sort their leadership and have a settling down period.

Once they've both got their leaders in place they should then plan to do a GE within a year.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

Once they've both got their leaders in place they should then plan to do a GE within a year.

Absolutely right,

They all have to get sorted out for the local elections next May Mock, there is no reason why a general election could not be fought at the same time and voting on the same day too.

Hardly any disruption, as if any disruption could be as bad as things are now.

[kirklancaster]

Before any General Election it is time for Electoral Reform and Proportional Representation.

Ukip has ONE MP, but was the 3rd largest party with 12.6% of votes cast, and came second in 118 of the 650 parliamentary seats.

Britains TRUE political landscape under the more democratic PR would have seen UKIP with 82 seats and Cameron's team losing 90 seats.

Where would the Tory majority have been then?

And only the most bigotted of anti-Farage people would say that a Tory/UKIP Coalition would NOT have been better for this country than the Tory Majority which allowed them 'free rein' with some of the most damaging policies for the working classes yet seen in the UK.

Say what you will about Farage, but his track record SHOWS that he cannot be bought and he would have done what the Lib Dem's failed to do - and that is; put a brake on the most unfair and radical of Cam's policies.

Electoral Reform is overdue.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Before any General Election it is time for Electoral Reform and Proportional Representation.

Ukip has ONE MP, but was the 3rd largest party with 12.6% of votes cast, and came second in 118 of the 650 parliamentary seats.

Britains TRUE political landscape under the more democratic PR would have seen UKIP with 82 seats and Cameron's team losing 90 seats.

Where would the Tory majority have been then?

And only the most bigotted of anti-Farage people would say that a Tory/UKIP Coalition would NOT have been better for this country than the Tory Majority which allowed them 'free rein' with some of the most damaging policies for the working classes yet seen in the UK.

Say what you will about Farage, but his track record SHOWS that he cannot be bought and he would have done what the Lib Dem's failed to do - and that is; put a brake on the most unfair and radical of Cam's policies.

Electoral Reform is overdue.

Actually as to that whole post I agree with you, and on the figures,it would have bee more likely to have a Conservative/UKIP coalition, I also agree that would have been considerably better than what we have now.

I am a newer advocate of electoral reform over recent years but have come to the belief it is time, with both major parties, getting easily under 40% of the votes cast now, that it is ridiculous a party can govern unfettered with only around 37% at best of the votes cast in an election.

I think pr would make for better policies,more inclusive govt and far better representative govt too.
Labour have flirted with changing the electoral system but never actually got round to it, although had the Lib Dems tried to do a deal with Labour in 2010,maybe they could have forced their hand more as to it, at least to a referendum on it, not AV that would not alter much,a proper pr system.

However now,I cannot see the Conservative party ever being persuaded to change the voting system ever.
I think their MPs would always vote it down.

I said this earlier,that no on can deny Farage and UKIP played their role in this referendum,I never agreed with their stance but they played their part.
It is now then shocking in my view that the house of commons make up stays the same with all the work and negotiations to be done as to leaving the EU.

On all of it going on with no election held, there will certainly only be a single UKIP party MP with a vote in parliament for all of that going on,if this new PM fails to have an election.

What is now needed is a new election,and I say this again too,even if that means Labour seats do fall to UKIP,Conservative seats fall to UKIP, whether it results in a Conservative majority govt or a Labour led one,or finally a Conservative UKIP coalition govt. 'so be it'

The voters should now be given the right to decide not only who but what make up of govt is elected to see all this through now.

Labour is one of the main parties I hope will come to the idea that pr is the way forward now, all would be in their hands and all other parties hands too to ensure they had the policies that are right for the Country as a whole and also probably more consensus policies too..

The SNP, Plaid Cymru, the Greens,Lib Dems and UKIP are all parties that could support pr, also the N Irish parties too.
It cannot be permitted that parties can govern as Tony Blair did and Brown with only 35% of the votes cast from 2005 to 2010,then this govt now with 36.8% of the votes cast to govern from 2015 to 2020.

It is now going to be in 2020,19 years since any party got over 40% of the votes cast to govern in a general election, that is to me anyway, and I think should be totally unacceptable now.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Actually as to that whole post I agree with you, and on the figures,it would have bee more likely to have a Conservative/UKIP coalition, I also agree that would have been considerably better than what we have now.

I am a newer advocate of electoral reform over recent years but have come to the belief it is time, with both major parties, getting easily under 40% of the votes cast now, that it is ridiculous a party can govern unfettered with only around 37% at best of the votes cast in an election.

I think pr would make for better policies,more inclusive govt and far better representative govt too.
Labour have flirted with changing the electoral system but never actually got round to it, although had the Lib Dems tried to do a deal with Labour in 2010,maybe they could have forced their hand more as to it, at least to a referendum on it, not AV that would not alter much,a proper pr system.

However now,I cannot see the Conservative party ever being persuaded to change the voting system ever.
I think their MPs would always vote it down.

I said this earlier,that no on can deny Farage and UKIP played their role in this referendum,I never agreed with their stance but they played their part.
It is now then shocking in my view that the house of commons make up stays the same with all the work and negotiations to be done as to leaving the EU.

On all of it going on with no election held, there will certainly only be a single UKIP party MP with a vote in parliament for all of that going on,if this new PM fails to have an election.

What is now needed is a new election,and I say this again too,even if that means Labour seats do fall to UKIP,Conservative seats fall to UKIP, whether it results in a Conservative majority govt or a Labour led one,or finally a Conservative UKIP coalition govt. 'so be it'

The voters should now be given the right to decide not only who but what make up of govt is elected to see all this through now.

Labour is one of the main parties I hope will come to the idea that pr is the way forward now, all would be in their hands and all other parties hands too to ensure they had the policies that are right for the Country as a whole and also probably more consensus policies too..

The SNP, Plaid Cymru, the Greens,Lib Dems and UKIP are all parties that could support pr, also the N Irish parties too.
It cannot be permitted that parties can govern as Tony Blair did and Brown with only 35% of the votes cast from 2005 to 2010,then this govt now with 36.8% of the votes cast to govern from 2015 to 2020.

It is now going to be in 2020,19 years since any party got over 40% of the votes cast to govern in a general election, that is to me anyway, and I think should be totally unacceptable now.

A GREAT post Joey.