[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Trouble with those that bleat on about human rights all the time is they don't seem to be able to differentiate between the ones that matter and the ones that don't. PC gets in the way and clouds their judgement as usual. All or nothing in their books, but real life says differently as can be seen here.

Scrapping human rights laws will apply to everyone, not just 'the bad ones' unfortunately. A balance is needed. I do agree we should be able to deport without all the hooha...but that wouldn't have helped these poor people :/

[bots]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Scrapping human rights laws will apply to everyone, not just 'the bad ones' unfortunately. A balance is needed. I do agree we should be able to deport without all the hooha...but that wouldn't have helped these poor people :/

Actually, it may have if they had been able to take action against that guy that appeared on that C4 documentary.

I agree that we should be incredibly careful on how we handle human rights. Tony Blair took action with the control orders after 7/7 ... but, those were challenged and revoked. So the safeguards are still in place via UK law to protect us

If nothing else, if the debate is opened up as to how we can tackle this, it can only be a good thing surely.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Actually, it may have if they had been able to take action against that guy that appeared on that C4 documentary.

I agree that we should be incredibly careful on how we handle human rights. Tony Blair took action with the control orders after 7/7 ... but, those were challenged and revoked. So the safeguards are still in place via UK law to protect us

If nothing else, if the debate is opened up as to how we can tackle this, it can only be a good thing surely.

That's not an issue of Human Rights though, it's a matter of inaction.

Mosques and their patrons are reporting extremism but I believe it's a lack of funding that is preventing action being taken. When it comes to Terrorism, this government is all lip service when it comes to prevention, they'd much rather erode our rights to their own advantage.

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Scrapping human rights laws will apply to everyone, not just 'the bad ones' unfortunately. A balance is needed. I do agree we should be able to deport without all the hooha...but that wouldn't have helped these poor people :/

Oh vicky that is so untrue.

This **** that appeared on the jihadi next door programme, if things had been in place then he would have either been locked up or deported and every single person who died on saturday night and since would all still be alive and enjoying life.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Oh vicky that is so untrue.

This **** that appeared on the jihadi next door programme, if things had been in place then he would have either been locked up or deported and every single person who died on saturday night and since would all still be alive and enjoying life.

Every single person who died on Saturday would have been alive? There were 2 other people carrying out the attack?

I get what you are saying but I think its a very dangerous route to be going down where, for example someone can be locked up on suspicion of doing something, when they may not have even been doing that if that makes sense? This will affect us all...not just the bad people.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-of-terrorists

Starmer, a former director of public prosecutions who oversaw dozens of terror cases, said Theresa May was misguided to focus on human rights law rather than policing cuts.

“There is no incompatibility between protecting human rights and taking effective action against terrorists,” he told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme.

“If we start throwing away our adherence to human rights in response to what has happened in the last three months, we are throwing away the values at the heart of the democracy, everything that we say we believe in.”

Starmer said he had never found human rights law a barrier to successful prosecutions of terrorists or those preparing acts of terrorism. “I know because I did it for five years,” he said. “We did not run into the Human Rights Act as a problem preventing successful prosecutions. We put a lot of people away for a very long time.”

This whole human rights thing is simply to take the heat off May about the cuts to security services. Nothing more. Removing human rights would not have lead to the Jihadi guy off the c4 program being jailed or deported. I do however think that MI5 were wrong in their assessment of how dangerous this guy was and as such stopped focusing on him.

In short, I disagree that someone should ever be locked up or deported simply because we think they are planning something. But if there is enough evidence they actually are then of course we should be able to lock them up (preferably in solitary, so they can not radicalize other people in prison) but we can do this already, and do do this already. Intelligence agencies get it wrong sometimes though.

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Every single person who died on Saturday would have been alive? There were 2 other people carrying out the attack?

I get what you are saying but I think its a very dangerous route to be going down where, for example someone can be locked up on suspicion of doing something, when they may not have even been doing that if that makes sense? This will affect us all...not just the bad people.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-of-terrorists



This whole human rights thing is simply to take the heat off May about the cuts to security services. Nothing more. Removing human rights would not have lead to the Jihadi guy off the c4 program being jailed or deported. I do however think that MI5 were wrong in their assessment of how dangerous this guy was and as such stopped focusing on him.

In short, I disagree that someone should ever be locked up or deported simply because we think they are planning something. But if there is enough evidence they actually are then of course we should be able to lock them up (preferably in solitary, so they can not radicalize other people in prison) but we can do this already, and do do this already.

Intelligence agencies get it wrong sometimes though.

Course they would be alive. Maybe a different set of people would be dead, but everyone on saturday would still be alive.


Arrest everyone connected to him and waterboard them.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Course they would be alive. Maybe a different set of people would be dead, but everyone on saturday would still be alive.


Arrest everyone connected to him and waterboard them.

His paperboy, neighbours, granny, sister in law, cousin etc?

That BIB right there is why Human Rights need protecting

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

His paperboy, neighbours, granny, sister in law, cousin etc?

That BIB right there is why Human Rights need protecting

Indeed.

Wow, imagine being tortured because someone you used to know a few years ago committed a crime. Or because a family member did.



Sadly, I really do think some people would be happy with this. Until it happened to them of course...but no...it would never happen to them, could never happen to them. Until it actually does...

Guilty until proven innocent, with a bit of legal torture thrown in for good measure :S

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Indeed.

Wow, imagine being tortured because someone you used to know a few years ago committed a crime. Or because a family member did.



Sadly, I really do think some people would be happy with this. Until it happened to them of course...but no...it would never happen to them, could never happen to them. Until it actually does...

Guilty until proven innocent, with a bit of legal torture thrown in for good measure :S

I am hoping parmnion was just pulling our legs, otherwise I seriously despair

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Sadly, I really do think some people would be happy with this. Until it happened to them of course...but no...it would never happen to them, could never happen to them. Until it actually does...

Ew no it couldn't happen unless you were a brown or friends with a brown or live in one of those Mosque ghetto communities. Yuck. Right-minded normal British folks would never be at any risk.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Course they would be alive. Maybe a different set of people would be dead, but everyone on saturday would still be alive.

I actually don't understand this. How can you say everybody on Saturday would still be alive, when the c4 guy was only one of 3 attackers. There were still 2 other people. We do not know which terrorist stabbed which person. The c4 guy might not have killed anyone at all!? We just do not know.

I may be missing something here though.

Arrest everyone connected to him and waterboard them.

You cannot be serious? Its hard to tell these days given these kind of extreme views seem to be getting more and more common. Just incase..

Everyone connected to him should be tortured. For what exactly? What do you mean by 'connected'. Family, friends, colleagues, people who have known him in the past...what? This kind of thinking scares me so much.

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I actually don't understand this. How can you say everybody on Saturday would still be alive, when the c4 guy was only one of 3 attackers. There were still 2 other people. We do not know which terrorist stabbed which person. The c4 guy might not have killed anyone at all!? We just do not know.

I may be missing something here though.


You cannot be serious? Its hard to tell these days given these kind of extreme views seem to be getting more and more common. Just incase..

Everyone connected to him should be tortured. For what exactly? What do you mean by 'connected'. Family, friends, colleagues, people who have known him in the past...what? This kind of thinking scares me so much.

Time lines would be different so people would be in differwnt places at different times....

Yeah i went a bit far with the waterboarding comment...i meant his
Mates from the progtamme.

But i do think some sort of heavy handed interogations should take place...can you imagine it!
Oh mr terrorjst we need to know how you planned tbis, your network? We need names..how do you get to syria so easy? Are there any .ore attacks planned?


Eh, no comment mr policeman.......sorry folks times have changed, techniques should change....maybe send in some ex ira to interogate them....

[user104658]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Time lines would be different so people would be in differwnt places at different times...

The most you can say there is that different people would have been killed instead, though. It's totally unknown. No one can really say "this definitely wouldn't have happened if..." in these situations. Maybe one of the others would have had an even more destructive plan on his own, etc.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Course they would be alive. Maybe a different set of people would be dead, but everyone on saturday would still be alive.


Arrest everyone connected to him and waterboard them.

That's why we can't give one government the ability to change our human rights. There are people in government who think like you do and that's really scary.