[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Riley.

Look at it this way, those poor people who die in terrorist attacks have no chance of survival, life taken away in the blink of an eye. So if you're going to get ill at least you have more of a fighting chance than sudden death.

WTF!



Can you re-word it because I'm sure I must've misunderstood what you're saying?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

For some it is. They feel that walking about with an e-cig hanging out of their mouths 24/7 and proudly exclaim "I haven't had a cig in three weeks". Well, good for you, but you've not beaten the craving or the addiction you've transferred it. But that's my annoyance with a couple of people I know.

That's been my experience with people who have "switched"... and not only that, but like you said they seem to vape near constantly - far more than they smoked before. I'd say that's one of the main concerns, really... a lot of people, far from quitting, have actually massively INcreased their nicotine intake.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Riley.

Look at it this way, those poor people who die in terrorist attacks have no chance of survival, life taken away in the blink of an eye. So if you're going to get ill at least you have more of a fighting chance than sudden death.

I would 10x... 1000x... rather die in a bomb blast than of lung cancer. Really really not a nice way to go out. My paternal grandfather died of it... I was only 5 so I don't really remember him... however, I do remember visiting him in the hospital. A living skeleton gasping for breath and covered in tubes is an image that sticks with you ...

[Marsh.]

Oh so she was making a random comparison between those methods of dying?

I'd just say, there's no comparison. I'd rather die instantly in something I had no control over, than slowly from self inflicted damage.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

That's been my experience with people who have "switched"... and not only that, but like you said they seem to vape near constantly - far more than they smoked before. I'd say that's one of the main concerns, really... a lot of people, far from quitting, have actually massively INcreased their nicotine intake.

But zeroed their tar intake... its tar that gives you lung cancer.

[DemolitionRed]

I know someone who's been chewing Nicorette gum for the last three years. He chews it all the time and I find that annoying.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

But zeroed their tar intake... its tar that gives you lung cancer.

How about propylene glycol, could this be a carcinogen?

[Kizzy]

My issue with vaping has always been where does the oil go? You start off with a bottle full of poisonous viscous fluid that would kill you if you drank it and then you warm it and inhale the vapour .... I'm sorry but there is nobody on this earth that could convince me that is safe.
Yes you puff a lot of it out but some must remain and over time you will have a lovely oily lining in your lungs :/

[user104658]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

But zeroed their tar intake... its tar that gives you lung cancer.

Maybe so but it's still not "safe" and is also largely untested in these increased volumes, and that's part of the problem. Nicotine is a drug, it has an effect on the body and mind, it MUST to be chemically addictive. People's nicotine intake for the mostpart has been limited by how much people can physically smoke, and not many people can stomach chain-smoking more than 60 to 80 in a day.

Nicotine intake from vaping is effectively unlimited, and people are back to "the old days" of sitting at their work desk inhaling all day, especially because they think there are no health effects. Yes the cancer risk is (probably) removed or at least seriously lessened but that doesn't mean there won't be other health implications.

The truth is there has been absolutely NO research at all done into the effects of very high nicotine intake daily over the long term. We simply won't know if there are any until 2040 and beyond when people have been vaping for 20+ years. Plus the only sources I've ever seen claiming that there are zero ill health effects originate from vape companies and pro-vape websites which are hardly unbiased sources...

Also as Kizzy has pointed out - there's more in "vape juice" than just the nicotine. It's not literally oil so the "oily lining" isn't likely to happen, I believe the viscosity is down to sugar-based substances, but still... you are inhaling various chemicals several times a day that are supposedly harmless but - again - I very much doubt when they were declared harmless, it was in the context of deliberately heating and inhaling them several times a day over several years...

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Maybe so but it's still not "safe" and is also largely untested in these increased volumes, and that's part of the problem. Nicotine is a drug, it has an effect on the body and mind, it MUST to be chemically addictive. People's nicotine intake for the mostpart has been limited by how much people can physically smoke, and not many people can stomach chain-smoking more than 60 to 80 in a day.

Nicotine intake from vaping is effectively unlimited, and people are back to "the old days" of sitting at their work desk inhaling all day, especially because they think there are no health effects. Yes the cancer risk is (probably) removed or at least seriously lessened but that doesn't mean there won't be other health implications.

The truth is there has been absolutely NO research at all done into the effects of very high nicotine intake daily over the long term. We simply won't know if there are any until 2040 and beyond when people have been vaping for 20+ years. Plus the only sources I've ever seen claiming that there are zero ill health effects originate from vape companies and pro-vape websites which are hardly unbiased sources...

Also as Kizzy has pointed out - there's more in "vape juice" than just the nicotine. It's not literally oil so the "oily lining" isn't likely to happen, I believe the viscosity is down to sugar-based substances, but still... you are inhaling various chemicals several times a day that are supposedly harmless but - again - I very much doubt when they were declared harmless, it was in the context of deliberately heating and inhaling them several times a day over several years...

Why not? It's an oil isn't it... there's water and a thickening agent and an emulsifier, otherwise they would separate, that's an oil.

[Cherie]

We will look back on vaping the same way we look back at people smoking around children and at work and using it as a fashion accessory in the 50s. It is untested, my friends son vapes and he didn't even smoke cigarettes, so there is no need for him to be vaping apart from trying to look cool

[Kizzy]

I would love to know how many children have been tempted into trying vaping due to the sweetie 'flavours'...

How off putting is it walking past a group of burly good looking men and they all smell of dolly mixtures!... Too weird :/

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Why not? It's an oil isn't it... there's water and a thickening agent and an emulsifier, otherwise they would separate, that's an oil.

Well no, oils by definition are hydrophobic (they don't mix with or dissolve in water), not all viscous fluids are oils. It's more of a "syrup", which does actually make a big difference, as the body SHOULD be able to eventually absorb anything that's water-soluble.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Well no, oils by definition are hydrophobic (they don't mix with or dissolve in water), not all viscous fluids are oils. It's more of a "syrup", which does actually make a big difference, as the body SHOULD be able to eventually absorb anything that's water-soluble.

Should that be the case that throws up more worrying potential health implications, if propylene glycol aids absorption what else could be absorbed along with it?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Should that be the case that throws up more worrying potential health implications, if propylene glycol aids absorption what else could be absorbed along with it?

The only answer really is... Maybe nothing, maybe a heap of nasty crap, probably somewhere in between. But I guess that's the real issue... Massive lack of data.

[DemolitionRed]

Well I just went out and bought myself some rolling tobacco, some rizlers, filters and a lighter.

**** it.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Well I just went out and bought myself some rolling tobacco, some rizlers, filters and a lighter.

**** it.

What!? God I feel awful now!!

Throw them away immediately!

[user104658]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Well I just went out and bought myself some rolling tobacco, some rizlers, filters and a lighter.

**** it.

Jesus christ DR... first e-cigs, now rollies? I'm starting to think you're a 20 year old Uni student as a secret . Next you'll be telling us you collect the butts out of ashtrays to reroll!

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

What!? God I feel awful now!!

Throw them away immediately!

Every time I vape outside the house, someone is trying to lecture me about the harm of vaping. People may not like it when you smoke but at least they accept that's what you do. Thing is, I love smoking. I wish I didn't but I do.

Don't feel awful, it feels amazing!

[user104658]

Hmm. See, I think that's the thing... when people want to kick it, they'll kick it in my experience. Plus it might be an evil ploy! Get everyone vaping, get them hooked on higher doses of nicotine, then ban them so people have to buy LOADS of cigarettes and the government creams off all of that lovely tobacco tax. Hunt probably invented them.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Jesus christ DR... first e-cigs, now rollies? I'm starting to think you're a 20 year old Uni student as a secret . Next you'll be telling us you collect the butts out of ashtrays to reroll!

Apart from my pregnancies where I found tobacco repulsive, I've been addicted to tobacco for years TS. Smoking came before vaping and whilst vaping doesn't have that cutting edge for me it was better than nothing.

Have you ever smoked? When my husband gave up he just went cold turkey and has never (to my knowledge) touched one since. When I tried that I was climbing the walls. I became bad-tempered, unreasonable and burst into tears at the slightest thing. I couldn't concentrate on anything and all I wanted to do was eat mountains of sugary things.

I tried Nicorette patches but became addicted to them and ended up smoking and using patches at the same time which is dangerous. I've tried prescription meds and was told that after about two weeks I'd just go off tobacco but that didn't happen. I tried vaping and found that was something I could handle but even with vaping, there isn't a day goes by when I don't think about smoking a cigarette. When you vape you get continuously hounded by people wanting to tell you that its more dangerous than smoking. I hate being an addict and I'd love to find a cure but it is what it is.

Oh and research findings show that some people can easily quit smoking whilst others find it almost impossible. Its the same with heroine.

[Niamh.]

I feel your pain DR

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

We will look back on vaping the same way we look back at people smoking around children and at work and using it as a fashion accessory in the 50s. It is untested, my friends son vapes and he didn't even smoke cigarettes, so there is no need for him to be vaping apart from trying to look cool

This. And it's undoing all of the work that went into banning the advertisement of cigs, with all these child friendly colours and flavours.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Apart from my pregnancies where I found tobacco repulsive, I've been addicted to tobacco for years TS. Smoking came before vaping and whilst vaping doesn't have that cutting edge for me it was better than nothing.

Have you ever smoked? When my husband gave up he just went cold turkey and has never (to my knowledge) touched one since. When I tried that I was climbing the walls. I became bad-tempered, unreasonable and burst into tears at the slightest thing. I couldn't concentrate on anything and all I wanted to do was eat mountains of sugary things.

I tried Nicorette patches but became addicted to them and ended up smoking and using patches at the same time which is dangerous. I've tried prescription meds and was told that after about two weeks I'd just go off tobacco but that didn't happen. I tried vaping and found that was something I could handle but even with vaping, there isn't a day goes by when I don't think about smoking a cigarette. When you vape you get continuously hounded by people wanting to tell you that its more dangerous than smoking. I hate being an addict and I'd love to find a cure but it is what it is.

Oh and research findings show that some people can easily quit smoking whilst others find it almost impossible. Its the same with heroine.

I was a social smoker from 15 - 23, only ever while on a night out, the closest I came to being "a smoker" I guess would have been first year Uni when we were out a lot and I was getting through 60 - 80 a week (smoking ban only came in during my 2nd year). I've never been physically addicted, just enjoyed them, so I can see what you mean about it being different for different people. A flatmate of mine at the time got together with a smoker, she started casually smoking a couple because he smoked, and she was on 10 a day (and furious about it) inside 6 months.

My dad though, started smoking when he was a kid (as in... 8 or 9) and didn't quit until the year after my daughter was born - so about 6/7 years ago. At his peak he was chaining all evening and smoking easily 60 a day... that was when he was living alone and his flat was utterly caked in yellow gunk . He had tried quitting several times when I was growing up, finally did it because wanted to retire and smoking was costing him nearly £8000 a year... truth is, those earlier times he tried giving it up, he was doing it for appearances / because other people wanted him to so it was never going to work. As soon as HE really wanted to quit, he just quit. Though I think he used some weird drug thing that apparently works for some people but is horrendous for others...

Also, funny you should say about the sugar... during the 6 months or so after quitting he gained about 2 stones because he was absolutely HAMMERING back Haribo Starmix. Like constantly . He drove the van when we moved from England to Scotland... a 4 hour drive and he had to stop 3 times for more ****ing jelly sweets .

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

This. And it's undoing all of the work that went into banning the advertisement of cigs, with all these child friendly colours and flavours.

It gets worse... y'know when they moved most of the post offices into "other stores" as a counter? Well, the one we bank at (work) is right across the street... as of a couple of weeks ago, is a postoffice / vape store??? I tell you, in the good old days ... ... ...

We'll end up like France, where I was once sat in a bar... and suddenly realised that it was a bar, bookies, off-licence and tobacco store all in one . Ew.

Edited to add: They also sold breads and pastries