[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by lostalex

"People always want to find "meaning" in everything. like the people that obsess about the beatles or Led zeplin, they play the records backwards and hear hidden messages."

I think that you omitted the word; 'Some' from the beginning of your first statement. Some people do always want to find "meaning" in everything. There are those who search for hidden messages in the lyrics of Helter Skelter from the Beatle's White Album, as there are those who 'suffer' from 'Pareidolia' and discern faces in clouds and trees etc.

Then there some others - myself included - who are essentially metaphysicists (in the true sense) and who seek answers to the genuine mysteries of life. We are not 'nutcases', delusional, and not given to 'blind' acceptance of dogma - from any source, nor do we exclude 'science' from the questions or answers.

"Humans for some reason can't understand the concept of nothingness, of chaos, of just believing what you see."

In part, you are absolutely correct here - at least as far as I am concerned - because I cannot accept the concept of nothingness, which is, after all, just another 'theory' -- as is 'Chaos', 'The Big Bang', String', and every other 'scientific proposition. I will ask again the following:

If life is 'accidental' - where did at all begin?
If there was nothing who introduced the something ?
If there was already something, who put the something there in the first place ?
If there is no meaning to life, and no after life, then we are no different to other animals.

If that is so, then where did our moral code come from?

"There must be order behind it, there must be something deeper, a secret. And people are rewarded when they think they have discovered something secret, it makes them feel superior to all the other "sheep", it makes them feel special and smart. It's pure ego."

Some of the greatest scientific minds who ever lived - and still live - believe(d) in order behind the most seemingly random realities in life.

As for 'feeling superior/special/smart; the polar opposite is true. Any sane, rational man who does seek answers in a metaphysical sense, realises - before he has even set forth on his quest to try to find answers - just how insignificant Man really is in the 'grand scheme of things'. He is instantly humbled by the enormity of that quest.

"What if it really is all just a Clusterfvc|k? could you handle that reality?"

Yes, but the actual odds of being able to procure answers to the 'meaning of life' are so utterly overwhelming, that when all the most exhaustive scientific and philosophical searching is ended, I seriously doubt that Man will ever be left with anything other than a simple choice between 'Faith' and 'Atheism'.

I think you may as well reverse the question and ask: "What if it really is one day proved that there is a God and a higher purpose to life? Could you Atheists handle that reality? .

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

"People always want to find "meaning" in everything. like the people that obsess about the beatles or Led zeplin, they play the records backwards and hear hidden messages."

I think that you omitted the word; 'Some' from the beginning of your first statement. Some people do always want to find "meaning" in everything. There are those who search for hidden messages in the lyrics of Helter Skelter from the Beatle's White Album, as there are those who 'suffer' from 'Pareidolia' and discern faces in clouds and trees etc.

Then there some others - myself included - who are essentially metaphysicists (in the true sense) and who seek answers to the genuine mysteries of life. We are not 'nutcases', delusional, and not given to 'blind' acceptance of dogma - from any source, nor do we exclude 'science' from the questions or answers.

"Humans for some reason can't understand the concept of nothingness, of chaos, of just believing what you see."

In part, you are absolutely correct here - at least as far as I am concerned - because I cannot accept the concept of nothingness, which is, after all, just another 'theory' -- as is 'Chaos', 'The Big Bang', String', and every other 'scientific proposition. I will ask again the following:

If life is 'accidental' - where did at all begin?
If there was nothing who introduced the something ?
If there was already something, who put the something there in the first place ?
If there is no meaning to life, and no after life, then we are no different to other animals.

If that is so, then where did our moral code come from?

"There must be order behind it, there must be something deeper, a secret. And people are rewarded when they think they have discovered something secret, it makes them feel superior to all the other "sheep", it makes them feel special and smart. It's pure ego."

Some of the greatest scientific minds who ever lived - and still live - believe(d) in order behind the most seemingly random realities in life.

As for 'feeling superior/special/smart; the polar opposite is true. Any sane, rational man who does seek answers in a metaphysical sense, realises - before he has even set forth on his quest to try to find answers - just how insignificant Man really is in the 'grand scheme of things'. He is instantly humbled by the enormity of that quest.

"What if it really is all just a Clusterfvc|k? could you handle that reality?"

Yes, but the actual odds of being able to procure answers to the 'meaning of life' are so utterly overwhelming, that when all the most exhaustive scientific and philosophical searching is ended, I seriously doubt that Man will ever be left with anything other than a simple choice between 'Faith' and 'Atheism'.

I think you may as well reverse the question and ask: "What if it really is one day proved that there is a God and a higher purpose to life? Could you Atheists handle that reality? .

Great post Kirk, there is always two sides to every coin this is why it is great to have an ever open mind.

Re the ego thing, for myself I do not have any as I respect everyones point of view. On the other hand I have been to a couple of churches, the Spiritualist being one of them. Because of their supposed qualities I thought they could teach me something but I soon realised that as some thought they had a gift, they expected their word to be the truth. Their egos were so great that they did not like being challenged. There was a great division at that time, my mind was with both but I was told I had to come down off of the fence and go on one side or the other. To me that wasnt at all spiritual so I left.

Many mediums are great but others do not seem to realise that they still have very far to go, there is still far more to perceive even at their misrepresented level of understanding.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Jules2

[/B]

Great post Kirk, there is always two sides to every coin this is why it is great to have an ever open mind.

Re the ego thing, for myself I do not have any as I respect everyones point of view. On the other hand I have been to a couple of churches, the Spiritualist being one of them. Because of their supposed qualities I thought they could teach me something but I soon realised that as some thought they had a gift, they expected their word to be the truth. Their egos were so great that they did not like being challenged. There was a great division at that time, my mind was with both but I was told I had to come down off of the fence and go on one side or the other. To me that wasnt at all spiritual so I left.

Many mediums are great but others do not seem to realise that they still have very far to go, there is still far more to perceive even at their misrepresented level of understanding.

It's not a great post at all, he provided no evidence at all against my points, he used the usual religious excuse "well you can't prove i'm wrong, so maybe you are wrong too!" he just repeated the same conspiracist "i'm smarter than everyone else, because i'm not a sheep" crap you can read every day on blog like AboveTopSecret and al the other dumb conspiracy websites, funny enough those conspiracy people have a lot in common with Religious nuts like followers of pat robertson and jerry fallwell, even though they claim to be polar opposites.

Do you believe in Unicorns or Minotaurs? if not, why not prove to me that a giant Minotaur doesn't control the planet. How do religious people not realize how stupid they sound?

The problem with people like him is he's too proud and/or dumb to just say "i don't know". The difference is, atheists freely say "i don't know" when they don't. but religious people say "I know the truth, and you are a jerk for asking me to tell you why, why should i have to explain it?".

it's enfuriating/. and deadly for many people./ especially gay people/.

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by lostalex

It's not a great post at all, he provided no evidence at all against my points, he used the usual religious excuse "well you can't prove i'm wrong, so maybe you are wrong too!" he just repeated the same conspiracist "i'm smarter than everyone else, because i'm not a sheep" crap you can read every day on blog like AboveTopSecret and al the other dumb conspiracy websites, funny enough those conspiracy people have a lot in common with Religious nuts like followers of pat robertson and jerry fallwell, even though they claim to be polar opposites.

Do you believe in Unicorns or Minotaurs? if not, why not prove to me that a giant Minotaur doesn't control the planet. How do religious people not realize how stupid they sound?

Tbh Lostalex, I do believe that we do not have to be sheep, we have to think for ourselves and keep our minds open at all times. There is nothing that we can really prove for everyone. The things which I think today may, in a few years time, be proven to be wrong. I wont feel blue though as my mind is never closed.

There are so many thoughts about everything that I do not see the connection between "can you prove blah blah blah" as being a religious aspect. To me it is fact, I say this you say that, can you prove what you say, I cant tbh because they are my experiences which I will not deny. I say I am not religious but I find comfort in a lot of things which are connected to religion, ie I love hymns (not hers psst nothing wrong in loving hers ).

Re Minatours and alike, for me I have to remember that all words are man made but I do not know and cannot prove whether a great being is in control. If so that being is energy something which we can all tap into to find a better understanding of life and purpose.

If life was diminshed and begun again, if a man was found upon a beach and he discovered a beano or a fairytale book, would he believe that that was the "bible" of sorts. The answer is we really do not know so for me we have to flip the coin for all/everything to be considered.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by lostalex

It's not a great post at all, he provided no evidence at all against my points, he used the usual religious excuse "well you can't prove i'm wrong, so maybe you are wrong too!" he just repeated the same conspiracist "i'm smarter than everyone else, because i'm not a sheep" crap you can read every day on blog like AboveTopSecret and al the other dumb conspiracy websites, funny enough those conspiracy people have a lot in common with Religious nuts like followers of pat robertson and jerry fallwell, even though they claim to be polar opposites.

Do you believe in Unicorns or Minotaurs? if not, why not prove to me that a giant Minotaur doesn't control the planet. How do religious people not realize how stupid they sound?

The problem with people like him is he's too proud and/or dumb to just say "i don't know". The difference is, atheists freely say "i don't know" when they don't. but religious people say "I know the truth, and you are a jerk for asking me to tell you why, why should i have to explain it?".

it's enfuriating/. and deadly for many people./ especially gay people/.

I really do not know where you draw the above conclusions you do Alex based on your original post and my response to your original post - there really is no basis for such conclusions, they are delusional and misleading.

You did not post 'contentions' requiring 'evidence' in a response, merely your 'point of view' , so I responded civilly and quite reasonably with a counter point of view. This being so, before I respond to this post, I'd like to analyse just what you originally posted, and just what my response to that original posting was -- after which, I defy any sane, impartial reader to concur with your illogical rant above:

Firstly, you posted:

Original Post : "People always want to find "meaning" in everything. like the people that obsess about the beatles or Led zeplin, they play the records backwards and hear hidden messages."

My Response To Your Original Post: "I think that you omitted the word; 'Some' from the beginning of your first statement. Some people do always want to find "meaning" in everything. There are those who search for hidden messages in the lyrics of Helter Skelter from the Beatle's White Album, as there are those who 'suffer' from 'Pareidolia' and discern faces in clouds and trees etc.

Then there some others - myself included - who are essentially metaphysicists (in the true sense) and who seek answers to the genuine mysteries of life. We are not 'nutcases', delusional, and not given to 'blind' acceptance of dogma - from any source, nor do we exclude 'science' from the questions or answers."

Original Post: "Humans for some reason can't understand the concept of nothingness, of chaos, of just believing what you see."

My Response To Your Original Post:]"In part, you are absolutely correct here - at least as far as I am concerned - because I cannot accept the concept of nothingness, which is, after all, just another 'theory' -- as is 'Chaos', 'The Big Bang', String', and every other 'scientific proposition. I will ask again the following:

If life is 'accidental' - where did at all begin?
If there was nothing who introduced the something ?
If there was already something, who put the something there in the first place ?
If there is no meaning to life, and no after life, then we are no different to other animals.

If that is so, then where did our moral code come from?"


Original Post: "There must be order behind it, there must be something deeper, a secret. And people are rewarded when they think they have discovered something secret, it makes them feel superior to all the other "sheep", it makes them feel special and smart. It's pure ego."

My Response To Your Original Post: Some of the greatest scientific minds who ever lived - and still live - believe(d) in order behind the most seemingly random realities in life.

As for 'feeling superior/special/smart; the polar opposite is true. Any sane, rational man who does seek answers in a metaphysical sense, realises - before he has even set forth on his quest to try to find answers - just how insignificant Man really is in the 'grand scheme of things'. He is instantly humbled by the enormity of that quest.

Original Post: "What if it really is all just a Clusterfvc|k? could you handle that reality?"


My Response To Your Original Post: Yes, but the actual odds of being able to procure answers to the 'meaning of life' are so utterly overwhelming, that when all the most exhaustive scientific and philosophical searching is ended, I seriously doubt that Man will ever be left with anything other than a simple choice between 'Faith' and 'Atheism'.

I think you may as well reverse the question and ask: "What if it really is one day proved that there is a God and a higher purpose to life? Could you Atheists handle that reality? .

Analysing the above -- Just how did you drawn the conclusions you have in this post? How can you justify what you contend?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by lostalex

It's not a great post at all, he provided no evidence at all against my points, he used the usual religious excuse "well you can't prove i'm wrong, so maybe you are wrong too!" he just repeated the same conspiracist "i'm smarter than everyone else, because i'm not a sheep" crap you can read every day on blog like AboveTopSecret and al the other dumb conspiracy websites, funny enough those conspiracy people have a lot in common with Religious nuts like followers of pat robertson and jerry fallwell, even though they claim to be polar opposites.

Do you believe in Unicorns or Minotaurs? if not, why not prove to me that a giant Minotaur doesn't control the planet. How do religious people not realize how stupid they sound?

The problem with people like him is he's too proud and/or dumb to just say "i don't know". The difference is, atheists freely say "i don't know" when they don't. but religious people say "I know the truth, and you are a jerk for asking me to tell you why, why should i have to explain it?".

it's enfuriating/. and deadly for many people./ especially gay people/.

"It's not a great post at all, he provided no evidence at all against my points, he used the usual religious excuse "well you can't prove i'm wrong, so maybe you are wrong too!"

The above claims are just not valid because I never stated those words or even intimated them, and have answered this in my last post.

"he just repeated the same conspiracist "i'm smarter than everyone else, because i'm not a sheep" crap you can read every day on blog like AboveTopSecret and al the other dumb conspiracy websites, funny enough those conspiracy people have a lot in common with Religious nuts like followers of pat robertson and jerry fallwell, even though they claim to be polar opposites."

Again Alex; I never stated those words or even intimated them, and nowhere in my response to your post do I allude to 'conspiracist' theories or the websites for such, and I do not regard myself as "smarter than everyone else" nor have I stated as much or intimated as much. In fact, in other posts on this thread I have stated how complex a subject this is and how there are internet articles and books on the subject written by far more intelligent and knowledgeable minds than mine.

That said, I am educated and intelligent and articulate, so I am not going to deliberately write in pidgin English and to the standard of an illiterate ignoramus simply to prevent people from wrongly attacking me for being a 'clever clogs'. Lastly, I'm neither a 'conspiracy' person, or a 'religious nut', and I've never heard of 'pat robertson' or 'jerry fallwell'.

"Do you believe in Unicorns or Minotaurs? if not, why not prove to me that a giant Minotaur doesn't control the planet."

Well actually, no I don't believe in 'Unicorns' or 'Minotaurs', but I do believe that these mythological creatures - like all myths - have a basis in historical reality. However, my non belief in these creatures renders a response to your challenge redundant.

"How do religious people not realize how stupid they sound?"

'Religious people' is such a sweeping term and this sentence is far too generic and cryptic for me to address. Which particular 'religious people Alex? and just what have these 'religious people' specifically said which 'sounds so stupid'?

"The problem with people like him is he's too proud and/or dumb to just say "i don't know". The difference is, atheists freely say "i don't know" when they don't. but religious people say "I know the truth, and you are a jerk for asking me to tell you why, why should i have to explain it?"."

I'll ignore the personal insult from you. I'm neither 'too proud' nor 'too dumb' to just say "i don't know"- as a search through my posts on this thread will attest, because I never state anything I believe as fact, but always state it as a 'belief'. What's more, where I have been asked a question which I don't have an answer to, I simply state that "I don't know". Look at my responses to LeatherTrumpet and Kyle among others and you'll see the truth of this. Further; I have never shirked from answering any questions in civil posts so I do not know - again - why you make this claim in a post about me.

However, I am amused by the irony in your erroneous claim because, any honest, impartial reader who compares my posts on this thread with yours, cannot deduce anything other than the fact that it is you Alex who act as if your opinions are facts and you who state the scientific theories which you espouse as absolutes.

"it's enfuriating/. and deadly for many people./ especially gay people/."

I simply do not know what you mean by this, and cannot see where it fits into the context of the rest of your post.

My regards Alex anyway.

[lostalex]

Nothing about religion makes any sense. There is absolutely no evidence of a loving, kind, fair God anywhere in history. Everything we see in the history of the word is basically a cycle of desperation, rape, survivalism, killing, and more death. 99% of the species that existed on this planet are extinct. please tell me why God made so many species just to make them die?

God must be an evil ****er, cause he seems to like to kill off most of his own creations.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by lostalex

religion is not special and it doesn't need to be treated with kid gloves. ridiculous ideas should be ridiculed. and bigoted hateful ideas should be treated as bigoted hateful ideas and scoffed at and condemned. All major religions are hateful and bigoted, and they deserve all of the opposition they receive.

If religion was just your personal belief then why is it being shoved down our kids throats in school, and shoved down everyone's throats in politics?

...I don't believe personally that there is 'no place' for anything religious in schools but I also don't say that I believe in religion in schools as such either..it's like anything that you can take something positive from..like say advice or something..?..or those 'self help' type books..?..I'm not sure if this is a good analogy or not but it's like taking the bits you think apply to you or your life philosophies etc ..so with bible stories/moral stories etc ..there is something which can be applicable in teaching and in schools with children..but that isn't as such teaching them 'religion'...I'm not saying that schools don't go further than that/some schools but that's where I personally think it has 'a place' and I don't think that's enforcing any beliefs...and a bit like what Ruby said...I don't believe that people can 'hide' behind religion if they're not good people generally in life and that's something that I have personally experienced, which is why I don't practise a religion but I do believe in the 'good' of people and if practising a religion does help give them some of that 'good'..the it can't be a bad thing...it doesn't for me have to 'make sense' if it's something that you believe in which helps make you a better person because that in itself is what makes the sense...

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...I don't believe personally that there is 'no place' for anything religious in schools but I also don't say that I believe in religion in schools as such either..it's like anything that you can take something positive from..like say advice or something..?..or those 'self help' type books..?..I'm not sure if this is a good analogy or not but it's like taking the bits you think apply to you or your life philosophies etc ..so with bible stories/moral stories etc ..there is something which can be applicable in teaching and in schools with children..but that isn't as such teaching them 'religion'...I'm not saying that schools don't go further than that/some schools but that's where I personally think it has 'a place' and I don't think that's enforcing any beliefs...and a bit like what Ruby said...I don't believe that people can 'hide' behind religion if they're not good people generally in life and that's something that I have personally experienced, which is why I don't practise a religion but I do believe in the 'good' of people and if practising a religion does help give them some of that 'good'..the it can't be a bad thing...it doesn't for me have to 'make sense' if it's something that you believe in which helps make you a better person because that in itself is what makes the sense...

There is no evidence that religion makes any one a better person though, there is however plenty of evidence that religion makes some people WORSE people ...hello ISIS, hello homophobes, hello the crusades, hello the spanish inquisition, hello every single woman that's been stoned to death for committing adultery in muslim countries.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by lostalex

There is no evidence that religion makes any one a better person though, there is however plenty of evidence that religion makes some people WORSE people ...hello ISIS, hello homophobes, hello the crusades, hello the spanish inquisition, hello every single woman that's been stoned to death for committing adultery in muslim countries.

..no there is no evidence, Alex...but there are people who do take the good out of what their life beliefs are and that's what I mean..they don't judge and they don't 'condemn' for not having the same beliefs..and they're not prejudice and they don't stone people to death....with the atrocities committed by ISIS, I don't believe that religion is a responsibility but an excuse to carry out these barbaric acts...there is no 'God' there whatsoever...

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..no there is no evidence, Alex...but there are people who do take the good out of what their life beliefs are and that's what I mean..they don't judge and they don't 'condemn' for not having the same beliefs..and they're not prejudice and they don't stone people to death....with the atrocities committed by ISIS, I don't believe that religion is a responsibility but an excuse to carry out these barbaric acts...there is no 'God' there whatsoever...

Brilliant Ammi.

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Nothing about religion makes any sense. There is absolutely no evidence of a loving, kind, fair God anywhere in history. Everything we see in the history of the word is basically a cycle of desperation, rape, survivalism, killing, and more death. 99% of the species that existed on this planet are extinct. please tell me why God made so many species just to make them die?

God must be an evil ****er, cause he seems to like to kill off most of his own creations.

I guess it depends on what people want to take out of religion, I had a friend who was over religious but she would spend her time running others down and criticising. I challenged her once with something not on the religious vein but on another, she isnt my friend anymore!! Cant help laughing tbh.

If things rightly uplift then religion works but it possibly depends on how it is used. So much has been laid at its door and many have fallen away from it. I suppose we are beginning to think for ourselves and to realise that we cannot just live by the word of another.

[Jules2]

One of the greatest sayings is "unto thine own self be true". We all know that we have different views and this is great because we can honour each persons thought. If there is nothing then it wont matter because we wont realise.

On the other hand many have had great experiences which are nothing to do with wishful thinking, they are just that, experiences. Mine came about through prayer when I was truly involved with the thought of a God. It is to long a story to go into but whilst at one time I was possibly looking and searching for help, I began to think of other things, I began to question. I realised that there was a reason for my distress, I began to handle it with a positive thought. The distress is still with me after many years but my thought is fighting for my family who need to be uplifted. We have had many illnesses which have been quite distressing. We therefore feed off of each others positivity. We work as one. Regardless my experiences are real and I will never deny them. It is as though I am in another dimension. I am wise enough to know though that an experience is only an experience to that person, to others it can be deemed rubbish. Seek and yea shall find.

There have been many great teachers over the centuries, people just telling us how to get through the trials and tribulations of life. One of the greatest things is forgiveness, possibly the only reason why we should forgive is to help ourselves because the negativity eats us away. Forgive and let it go, let life sort out the karma of an incident. It is very hard at times to forgive though.

Talking about nothing and just darkness I remember I used to sit in primary school just visualising nothing, what would happen if there was nothing at all. It was an eerie feeling and one which seemed to consume me at that time. My paintings had much black within their outline, but then that tiny spark of light shone through.

There is a thought that as we think on this planet so shall we think in another existence until that little light gives us hope and the spirit can move on. To me hell is just our own thoughts and many a time we can say that the hell is here on earth.

[smudgie]

Maybe the question for some is not so much "What is the meaning of life" as "Is there meaning to life" .

My personal theory is that if we all live and let live, life might be a happier journey.
I don't believe in the bible, just another book of fairy tales to me, however, I don't feel the need to tell people that do that they are wrong.
A bit of faith goes a long way in this life, what you have faith in matters not.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Maybe the question for some is not so much "What is the meaning of life" as "Is there meaning to life" .

My personal theory is that if we all live and let live, life might be a happier journey.
I don't believe in the bible, just another book of fairy tales to me, however, I don't feel the need to tell people that do that they are wrong.
A bit of faith goes a long way in this life, what you have faith in matters not.

Valid points.

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Maybe the question for some is not so much "What is the meaning of life" as "Is there meaning to life" .

My personal theory is that if we all live and let live, life might be a happier journey.
I don't believe in the bible, just another book of fairy tales to me, however, I don't feel the need to tell people that do that they are wrong.
A bit of faith goes a long way in this life, what you have faith in matters not.

Whatever uplifts and enables someone to go on in a positive vein eh! I agree smudgie.

[lostalex]

As far as your last point Kirk, if it did turn out there was a GOD, and i found out that he was putting us through all this torture and suffering, i would try to ****ing kill that ****ing ASSHOLE. If there is a God then he is evil for what he has done to humanity.

I would never ask forgiveness from God, i would DEMAND that God beg ME for forgiveness. for all that he's done to me and the people i love, and to the entire human race.

If there is a God, shame on him.

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by lostalex

As far as your last point Kirk, if it did turn out there was a GOD, and i found out that he was putting us through all this torture and suffering, i would try to ****ing kill that ****ing ASSHOLE. If there is a God then he is evil for what he has done to humanity.

I would never ask forgiveness from God, i would DEMAND that God beg ME for forgiveness. for all that he's done to me and the people i love, and to the entire human race.

If there is a God, shame on him.

It is hard Lostalex when we are going through our own trials, we can questions things as to why it is happening. To me this is why I do not believe in a god, I feel it is ok for me not to believe but I do believe in faith. Faith that we will have the courage to see ourselves through without suffering to much turmoil.

In my book we do have the answers within for our own survival. With my own troubles I used to sit down and write everything in a book, I could say what I wanted, I could get the anger out of myself, I uplifted myself as I suddenly realised that there was a healing power which was within me. I accepted it and have never looked back. It is a power for sharing.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by lostalex

As far as your last point Kirk, if it did turn out there was a GOD, and i found out that he was putting us through all this torture and suffering, i would try to ****ing kill that ****ing ASSHOLE. If there is a God then he is evil for what he has done to humanity.

I would never ask forgiveness from God, i would DEMAND that God beg ME for forgiveness. for all that he's done to me and the people i love, and to the entire human race.

If there is a God, shame on him.

I understand your anger at 'God' Alex, I really do. It's the age old question of why a supposedly loving, caring, creator God will stand back and allow terrible things to happen to an individual or humans in general. The answer is that I do not know Alex - I have cursed God myself in the past through my grief and asked him the same question.

The same question is posed throughout the Bible as well but i can't remember where or what the responses were.

[Liam-]

I think the reasonable answer to this question is, everyone has their own ideals on what brings meaning to life, their life specifically.

Some may think God and religion is what brings ultimate meaning to a persons life and they'll devote themselves to following his every word and follow the words of the bible and that's okay.

Some people might think that being green and loving the planet to try and preserve natures beauty for future generations brings ultimate meaning to their life and that's okay.

Some people might think that money and success will bring them complete joy and make their lives happier and much easier, so they strive to gain all of their personal goals in order to reap the rewards and feel fulfilled, that's okay too.

Some people think that living a free life away from the stress of the modern day society is the way forward, being free from worry, free from the burden that today's world throws upon people on an everyday basis, just having to survive, with only love and hope to carry them through, that's more than okay if that's what suits those people.

I don't think there's any place for judging or criticising people's beliefs and their personal infrastructure, we are all different, we all see different things in the world, we all see beauty and meaning in different things, but at the end of the day, we're all the same, at the core of every being there is a longing for acceptance and love and ultimately happiness, whichever way people seem fit to seek happiness, as long as it's legal and it doesn't hurt or harm anyone, there's nothing wrong with it, everyone's life meaning is equal and just as important in the world as everyone else's.

Me? well i strive for the day when i can turn around and say that I have made my parents proud, that i've made myself proud, that I've become the best person i could possibly be, money and success mean nothing to me, the love of my family and friends is what drives me and that's what gives my life meaning because as long as i have that, then I'll always be happy.

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by LiamPRW

I think the reasonable answer to this question is, everyone has their own ideals on what brings meaning to life, their life specifically.

Some may think God and religion is what brings ultimate meaning to a persons life and they'll devote themselves to following his every word and follow the words of the bible and that's okay.

Some people might think that being green and loving the planet to try and preserve natures beauty for future generations brings ultimate meaning to their life and that's okay.

Some people might think that money and success will bring them complete joy and make their lives happier and much easier, so they strive to gain all of their personal goals in order to reap the rewards and feel fulfilled, that's okay too.

Some people think that living a free life away from the stress of the modern day society is the way forward, being free from worry, free from the burden that today's world throws upon people on an everyday basis, just having to survive, with only love and hope to carry them through, that's more than okay if that's what suits those people.

I don't think there's any place for judging or criticising people's beliefs and their personal infrastructure, we are all different, we all see different things in the world, we all see beauty and meaning in different things, but at the end of the day, we're all the same, at the core of every being there is a longing for acceptance and love and ultimately happiness, whichever way people seem fit to seek happiness, as long as it's legal and it doesn't hurt or harm anyone, there's nothing wrong with it, everyone's life meaning is equal and just as important in the world as everyone else's.

Me? well i strive for the day when i can turn around and say that I have made my parents proud, that i've made myself proud, that I've become the best person i could possibly be, money and success mean nothing to me, the love of my family and friends is what drives me and that's what gives my life meaning because as long as i have that, then I'll always be happy.

That is a lovely post Liam you will always have love and that is such an important element to our being.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LiamPRW

I think the reasonable answer to this question is, everyone has their own ideals on what brings meaning to life, their life specifically.

Some may think God and religion is what brings ultimate meaning to a persons life and they'll devote themselves to following his every word and follow the words of the bible and that's okay.

Some people might think that being green and loving the planet to try and preserve natures beauty for future generations brings ultimate meaning to their life and that's okay.

Some people might think that money and success will bring them complete joy and make their lives happier and much easier, so they strive to gain all of their personal goals in order to reap the rewards and feel fulfilled, that's okay too.

Some people think that living a free life away from the stress of the modern day society is the way forward, being free from worry, free from the burden that today's world throws upon people on an everyday basis, just having to survive, with only love and hope to carry them through, that's more than okay if that's what suits those people.

I don't think there's any place for judging or criticising people's beliefs and their personal infrastructure, we are all different, we all see different things in the world, we all see beauty and meaning in different things, but at the end of the day, we're all the same, at the core of every being there is a longing for acceptance and love and ultimately happiness, whichever way people seem fit to seek happiness, as long as it's legal and it doesn't hurt or harm anyone, there's nothing wrong with it, everyone's life meaning is equal and just as important in the world as everyone else's.

Me? well i strive for the day when i can turn around and say that I have made my parents proud, that i've made myself proud, that I've become the best person i could possibly be, money and success mean nothing to me, the love of my family and friends is what drives me and that's what gives my life meaning because as long as i have that, then I'll always be happy.

Brilliantly written Liam and really balanced.

[lostalex]

I don't have a problem with people believing stupid things, along as they don't try to take MY rights away in the name of their crazy beliefs. If you wanna sit around worshipping God all day, praying five times a day in a certain direction, starving yourself on certain holidays, FINE, along as you don't try to take anyone else's rights away that's fine.

It's when religious people try to put it in their work, or their schools, or their governments, that's when I have a problem. Unfortunately, all the major religions seem to be obsessed with POLITICS!

[Shaun]

i think the meaning of life is this thread

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Shaun

i think the meaning of life is this thread

I agree.