[Ammi]

Originally Posted by lostalex

religion is not special and it doesn't need to be treated with kid gloves. ridiculous ideas should be ridiculed. and bigoted hateful ideas should be treated as bigoted hateful ideas and scoffed at and condemned. All major religions are hateful and bigoted, and they deserve all of the opposition they receive.

If religion was just your personal belief then why is it being shoved down our kids throats in school, and shoved down everyone's throats in politics?

...I don't believe personally that there is 'no place' for anything religious in schools but I also don't say that I believe in religion in schools as such either..it's like anything that you can take something positive from..like say advice or something..?..or those 'self help' type books..?..I'm not sure if this is a good analogy or not but it's like taking the bits you think apply to you or your life philosophies etc ..so with bible stories/moral stories etc ..there is something which can be applicable in teaching and in schools with children..but that isn't as such teaching them 'religion'...I'm not saying that schools don't go further than that/some schools but that's where I personally think it has 'a place' and I don't think that's enforcing any beliefs...and a bit like what Ruby said...I don't believe that people can 'hide' behind religion if they're not good people generally in life and that's something that I have personally experienced, which is why I don't practise a religion but I do believe in the 'good' of people and if practising a religion does help give them some of that 'good'..the it can't be a bad thing...it doesn't for me have to 'make sense' if it's something that you believe in which helps make you a better person because that in itself is what makes the sense...

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...I don't believe personally that there is 'no place' for anything religious in schools but I also don't say that I believe in religion in schools as such either..it's like anything that you can take something positive from..like say advice or something..?..or those 'self help' type books..?..I'm not sure if this is a good analogy or not but it's like taking the bits you think apply to you or your life philosophies etc ..so with bible stories/moral stories etc ..there is something which can be applicable in teaching and in schools with children..but that isn't as such teaching them 'religion'...I'm not saying that schools don't go further than that/some schools but that's where I personally think it has 'a place' and I don't think that's enforcing any beliefs...and a bit like what Ruby said...I don't believe that people can 'hide' behind religion if they're not good people generally in life and that's something that I have personally experienced, which is why I don't practise a religion but I do believe in the 'good' of people and if practising a religion does help give them some of that 'good'..the it can't be a bad thing...it doesn't for me have to 'make sense' if it's something that you believe in which helps make you a better person because that in itself is what makes the sense...

There is no evidence that religion makes any one a better person though, there is however plenty of evidence that religion makes some people WORSE people ...hello ISIS, hello homophobes, hello the crusades, hello the spanish inquisition, hello every single woman that's been stoned to death for committing adultery in muslim countries.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by lostalex

There is no evidence that religion makes any one a better person though, there is however plenty of evidence that religion makes some people WORSE people ...hello ISIS, hello homophobes, hello the crusades, hello the spanish inquisition, hello every single woman that's been stoned to death for committing adultery in muslim countries.

..no there is no evidence, Alex...but there are people who do take the good out of what their life beliefs are and that's what I mean..they don't judge and they don't 'condemn' for not having the same beliefs..and they're not prejudice and they don't stone people to death....with the atrocities committed by ISIS, I don't believe that religion is a responsibility but an excuse to carry out these barbaric acts...there is no 'God' there whatsoever...

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..no there is no evidence, Alex...but there are people who do take the good out of what their life beliefs are and that's what I mean..they don't judge and they don't 'condemn' for not having the same beliefs..and they're not prejudice and they don't stone people to death....with the atrocities committed by ISIS, I don't believe that religion is a responsibility but an excuse to carry out these barbaric acts...there is no 'God' there whatsoever...

Brilliant Ammi.

[kirklancaster]

Food for thought #1. -- I welcome all responses.

In the Hebrew Bible, there are numerous instances of the 10 Commandments being in existence long before God handed them down to Moses on Mount Sinai, as recorded in Exodus.

But, to prevent argument, let's take God and 'religion' out of the equation - for the moment at least - other than for quotation purposes.

I maintain that whoever drafted the 10 Commandments was no ordinary Man, but some 'one' or 'thing' of an intellect and knowledge far beyond contemporary Man's.

Think about it:

The 10 Commandments are a 'blueprint' for living life - a blueprint which, if adhered to, guarantees the ascension to a state akin to 'paradise', though this is the 'ultimate' ascension of the species rather than any ascension to 'heaven' of any 'righteous' individual upon physical death.

It's as if some superior being said to primitive man; you're doing it all wrong. Here - do it this way, and one day you will reach paradise.

Crazy nonsense?

1) You shall have no other gods before Me.
2) You shall not make idols.
3) You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
4) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Adherence to the first 4 Commandments above, has many benefits - none more so than the fact that through Monotheism and a universal acceptance of One God instead of many different ones, it will put an end to religious wars and all the killing and suffering which they entail.

5) Honor your father and your mother.
6) You shall not murder.
7) You shall not commit adultery.
8) You shall not steal.
9) You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10) You shall not covet your neighbors goods.

Adherence to the other 6 Commandments above, will put an end to stealing, murder and killing each other, as well as all the violence and strife which desiring your neighbours wives and possessions, and disrespecting others can lead to.

Keep thinking with an open mind. Imagine;

A society with no crime, no wars, and no civil unrest. A society, therefore, where Police and armies, and all the associated organisations, are ultimately unnecessary.

Think of all the cumulative trillions of zillions of pounds which are currently wasted on weapons, war, crime detection, being invested instead on medical and other 'scientific' research.

Wouldn't we eventually conquer cancer and other horrific diseases? Wouldn't we succeed in mastering new technological means of food production? We have already isolated the ant-ageing gene, so isn't it probable that we will have conquered ageing if not death itself as well?

Wouldn't we have mastered interplanetary if not interstellar space flight? Colonised the moon? Colonised other worlds? What a future. No dystopia just utopia.

A civilisation with no crime, no wars, and no civil unrest. A world without disease or illness. A world where starvation is unknown, and where citizens virtually live forever.

Isn't this one form of 'paradise'? A paradise which the entire human species can one day attain.

Who drafted the 10 Commandments so many thousands of years ago?