[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I do not care if transmen want to use male spaces. That's up to them and the males.

You called them female before, that's all. And then biological women. And I was just confused why you don't care about that subsection of "females/biological women" sharing spaces with biological men and only the cis biological women. But nevermind, I digress...

[Vicky.]

It's transmens choice if they wish to use male spaces imo. Unless men complain about that, in which case a discussion needs to be had (not #nodebate stonewall)

[Crimson Dynamo]

[Livia]

There is no such thing as cis women.

Women
Trans women
Men
Trans men

I do not need a title imposed on me for the benefit of a tiny subsection of society.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Crimson Dynamo

It's not difficult to grasp, is it.

[bots]

how many cases have there been reported about men feeling threatened by a trans man using their toilet? Surely it was a big issue prior to this ruling?

[Beso]

Originally Posted by BBXX

I haven't looked, but you cannot ignore the fact trans women are 4x more likely to be a victim of violence than cis gender people. Do you really honestly think a trans woman is safer in the male changing rooms than the female ones? Are cis women really that violent?

Do you have any stats on how likely they are to commit sexual violence towards female children than a woman is?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Beso

Do you have any stats on how likely they are to commit sexual violence towards female children than a woman is?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce39v5k0gx2o.amp

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

It's transmens choice if they wish to use male spaces imo. Unless men complain about that, in which case a discussion needs to be had (not #nodebate stonewall)

Okay cool. But you’re fine with them using women’s spaces too, if they want to?

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Livia

There is no such thing as cis women.

Women
Trans women
Men
Trans men

I do not need a title imposed on me for the benefit of a tiny subsection of society.

Nobody is forcing you to use it. Cis is an adjective that has been used for a long, long time. If you want to not use words that fine. If you don’t wish to be called it, that’s also fine and I won’t call you specifically a cis woman, but you don’t get deny words just because they trigger you.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Beso

Do you have any stats on how likely they are to commit sexual violence towards female children than a woman is?

No. There is data to suggest (though this has partly been discredited) they are more likely to commit a violent crime than cis woman, however there is no data on who the victim is.

Between 2013 - 2023, the number of rape/sexual offences in the UK that took place in a public bathroom was 210 over a 10 year period. That's 21 cases a year. So approximately 0.010% of all of rape/sexual assault cases. Most of them will have been committed by straight, cis men.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by BBXX

No. There is data to suggest (though this has partly been discredited) they are more likely to commit a violent crime than cis woman, however there is no data on who the victim is.

Between 2013 - 2023, the number of rape/sexual offences in the UK that took place in a public bathroom was 210 over a 10 year period. That's 21 cases a year. So approximately 0.010% of all of rape/sexual assault cases. Most of them will have been committed by straight, cis men.

So all those offences have been committed on transwomen?

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

It's transmens choice if they wish to use male spaces imo. Unless men complain about that, in which case a discussion needs to be had (not #nodebate stonewall)

Personally I would not walk into a man's space without men's permission, so that's generally where I've left it.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Cherie

So all those offences have been committed on transwomen?

No, sorry if unclear. That’s all cases regardless of the victims demographic.

My point was in that setting it counts from such a small amount of overall cases that the suggestion trans women aren’t facing this massive threat to cis women in this scenario is not true.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Crimson Dynamo

Lesbians are throwing a party at the last part.

I had to play on one negative stereotype from this article.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Beso

Do you have any stats on how likely they are to commit sexual violence towards female children than a woman is?

Tbf the same can be said for biological men as well.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by BBXX

No, sorry if unclear. That’s all cases regardless of the victims demographic.

My point was in that setting it counts from such a small amount of overall cases that the suggestion trans women aren’t facing this massive threat to cis women in this scenario is not true.

It doesn't matter how small the threat is, and the fact is self ID increased the thread exponentially not just in bathrooms but in sport, in the workplace, in refuges, hell even in rape crisis centres where in Scotland one centre had a transwoman in charge, I could walk down the street at night and 99 times out of a 100 I would be okay but there is that 1 per cent chance I would not, women got on fine for years with transwomen and we accommodated them with no issue but when it gets to the point rapists were considered to be okay to go to womens prisons because they self ID while in custody and this ideology was backed by politicians, and women in sport were being put at a disadvantage and at risk, womens refuges were no longer a safe haven the time had come to say no.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Crimson Dynamo

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce39v5k0gx2o.amp

https://news.sky.com/story/transgend...lgirl-12883405

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Cherie

It doesn't matter how small the threat is, and the fact is self ID increased the thread exponentially not just in bathrooms but in sport, in the workplace, in refuges, hell even in rape crisis centres where in Scotland one centre had a transwoman in charge, I could walk down the street at night and 99 times out of a 100 I would be okay but there is that 1 per cent chance I would not, women got on fine for years with transwomen and we accommodated them with no issue but when it gets to the point rapists were considered to be okay to go to womens prisons because they self ID while in custody and this ideology was backed by politicians, and women in sport were being put at a disadvantage and at risk, womens refuges were no longer a safe haven the time had come to say no.

Great post, agree with all of that.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by BBXX

Okay cool. But you’re fine with them using women’s spaces too, if they want to?

If they don't pass yes. If this is the case then they will probably be at risk in the mens. Most transmen I have met just look a bit butch. But testosterone is strong stuff so I know it's quite possible for them to fully pass

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

Lesbians are throwing a party at the last part.

I had to play on one negative stereotype from this article.

Lesbian groups have been under attack for some time now. Being told they are transphobic for not dating/including transwomen. Look up 'cotton ceiling'. It's all quite vile.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Lesbian groups have been under attack for some time now. Being told they are transphobic for not dating/including transwomen. Look up 'cotton ceiling'. It's all quite vile.

Oh I know that there has been a strenuous relationship between some of the Lesbian community and some of the Transwomen for awhile now.

Hopefully it'll all calm down between both sides eventually.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Lesbian groups have been under attack for some time now. Being told they are transphobic for not dating/including transwomen. Look up 'cotton ceiling'. It's all quite vile.

Reading between the lines.

Ugly men, can't get a woman, so turn into a woman, thinking it makes them more appealing.

Find out it doesn't. so take it out on women.

[BBXX]

Yes, there are some extremists who think it's transphobic to not want to date a trans person - I have a problem with that and it feels gay-erasure-esque. However it's a tiny minority of a minority. It feels hyperbolic to say lesbians are "under attack".

It's so weird because whenever minorities are discussed, conversation always turns to the extremists within that group, the group that by far do not represent the majority of people within that demographic. It happens all the time.

This whole conversation has been hyperbolic in fact, this idea that trans women are some extreme threat to women because of a few isolated incidences where a trans woman existing has negatively effected a cis woman.

A recent study showed that a third of men would rape a woman if they thought there'd be no consequences/nobody would ever find out. A third of straight cis University students. A third. But instead the world seems to focus on trans women being this insane threat to every other woman out there. Give me a break.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

If they don't pass yes. If this is the case then they will probably be at risk in the mens. Most transmen I have met just look a bit butch. But testosterone is strong stuff so I know it's quite possible for them to fully pass

That's fine, thanks for admitting it's not about the importance of biological sex at all, it's just about how they look.

It's interesting trans men are given the "for their safety they can use the bathroom they are most safe in" but trans women aren't granted that pass. Patriarchy, amirite?