[Shasown]

So going by the arguments against women wearing the burka because the nasty man of the house made them cover up, if the burka is banned doesnt it just mean same nasty man will keep the woman indoors and send young (as in of pre burka wearing age) girls out to do the shopping etc?

So by banning the burka we create domestic prisoners. An ideal solution to misogynistic religious practices.

Education not legislation.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Shasown

So going by the arguments against women wearing the burka because the nasty man of the house made them cover up, if the burka is banned doesnt it just mean same nasty man will keep the woman indoors and send young (as in of pre burka wearing age) girls out to do the shopping etc?

So by banning the burka we create domestic prisoners. An ideal solution to misogynistic religious practices.

Education not legislation.

Yeah that's a good point

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by Shasown

So going by the arguments against women wearing the burka because the nasty man of the house made them cover up, if the burka is banned doesnt it just mean same nasty man will keep the woman indoors and send young (as in of pre burka wearing age) girls out to do the shopping etc?

So by banning the burka we create domestic prisoners. An ideal solution to misogynistic religious practices.

Education not legislation.

The acceptance of a visual representation of gender oppression is a tacit nod of approval for that attitude and the practices associated with it.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

The acceptance of a visual representation of gender oppression is a tacit nod of approval for that attitude and the practices associated with it.

I am not denying that.

But once again you havent addressed the point in quiestion. What happens if in some cases the head of the muslim household simply confines the female who would have been allowed out in a burqa to the house?

[Zippy]

these women do not choose to wear this from a neutral standpoint. They do so because its been drummed into them from birth that they should be hidden away.

well that message is abhorent and a civilised country should be intolerant towards it.

[InOne]

There would be too much uproar in the UK if it happened. And would just give extremists an excuse for another attack,

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by InOne

There would be too much uproar in the UK if it happened. And would just give extremists an excuse for another attack,

Sadly, this is true. But it's a terrible thing that the rights of swathes of young girls have to be sacrificed to maintain what is already a very fragile peace.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

Sadly, this is true. But it's a terrible thing that the rights of swathes of young girls have to be sacrificed to maintain what is already a very fragile peace.

Well as long as it isn't affecting anyone else it doesn't matter really. It's easy to explain to a kid about it. If we tried to intervene or anything we'd only get abuse, so just let them get on with it.

[Crimson Dynamo]

and if we ban the Burkah then we could also ban trainers

[Shasown]

Nuns habits next on the list?

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Nuns habits next on the list?

yes

except for stripograms

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Nuns habits next on the list?

At least nuns have the excuse of their habits, (which incidentally do NOT cover their faces) actually being a religious requirement UNLIKE the burka which is simply a MALE requirement to subjugate females and enforce OWNERSHIP of and AUTHORITY over their women. Unfortunately that sort of mindset is a couple of centuries out of date and has no place in this country. Let's just bring back chastity belts as well shall we? And how about chaperones for unmarried women, compulsory male guarantors if women want to take out credit or buy a house etc etc?

Women have had to fight long and hard for equality and the burka represents a massive backward step. The main objection is not the fact it is a head to toe coverup, it is the fact that the FACE is concealed. This is not only a huge security risk but also promotes separation from the rest of the community and hinders integration.

Irrespective of cultural/religious arguments, There is NEVER any reason at all to allow people to move amongst us with total anonymity in this day and age of heightened terror alerts. No doubt if people chose to walk about stark naked or copulate in public we'd have the usual suspects telling us it's their choice and we have no right to object.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by angus58

At least nuns have the excuse of their habits, (which incidentally do NOT cover their faces) actually being a religious requirement UNLIKE the burka which is simply a MALE requirement to subjugate females and enforce OWNERSHIP of and AUTHORITY over their women. Unfortunately that sort of mindset is a couple of centuries out of date and has no place in this country. Let's just bring back chastity belts as well shall we? And how about chaperones for unmarried women, compulsory male guarantors if women want to take out credit or buy a house etc etc?

Women have had to fight long and hard for equality and the burka represents a massive backward step. The main objection is not the fact it is a head to toe coverup, it is the fact that the FACE is concealed. This is not only a huge security risk but also promotes separation from the rest of the community and hinders integration.

Irrespective of cultural/religious arguments, There is NEVER any reason at all to allow people to move amongst us with total anonymity in this day and age of heightened terror alerts. No doubt if people chose to walk about stark naked or copulate in public we'd have the usual suspects telling us it's their choice and we have no right to object.

You forgot they contribute to a predisposition for hypovitaminosis D, which can lead to rickets or osteoporosis and may increase the risk of seizures in infants born to affected mothers

[Niamh.]

I see the Burka as a symbol of oppression, and to be quite honest I applaud Germany and France for banning it. It's backward and demeaning to women, If they don't like it then don't go to those countries.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I see the Burka as a symbol of oppression, and to be quite honest I applaud Germany and France for banning it. It's backward and demeaning to women, If they don't like it then don't go to those countries.

Yes the New Way.

In Your Face.

And Andy (novo) is having a week off.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I see the Burka as a symbol of oppression, and to be quite honest I applaud Germany and France for banning it. It's backward and demeaning to women, If they don't like it then don't go to those countries.

What about a British Muslim woman who feels the burkha is an important part of her religion, why should she be denied the freedom to do so because some people are hung-up on the possible symbolism of it?

It's not always been the case that it has symbolised oppression either, back in the 19th centure it became a way of rejecting and resisting British colonialism, and asserting themselves and their religion

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by MTVN

What about a British Muslim woman who feels the burkha is an important part of her religion, why should she be denied the freedom to do so because some people are hung-up on the possible symbolism of it?

It's not always been the case that it has symbolised oppression either, back in the 19th centure it became a way of rejecting and resisting British colonialism, and asserting themselves and their religion

Well, If a British person lives in a Muslim country they have to live by their rules without question so I say tough luck to her tbh, if it's that important to her then she could always move to a Muslim country.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Well, If a British person lives in a Muslim country they have to live by their rules without question so I say tough luck to her tbh, if it's that important to her then she could always move to a Muslim country.

exactly

westerners have to adjust what they wear to suit muslim countries. But they can wear what they want even if it demeans an entire gender and influences our children in a backwards and negative way?

young girls in this country deserve better role models than a woman covered up head to toe. That represents oppresion and stone age mentality.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Well, If a British person lives in a Muslim country they have to live by their rules without question so I say tough luck to her tbh, if it's that important to her then she could always move to a Muslim country.

I like the fact that we're more tolerant than most Islamic countries though, and that we dont impose our own beliefs onto every single citizen of our country

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I like the fact that we're more tolerant than most Islamic countries though, and that we dont impose our own beliefs onto every single citizen of our country

well, besides the fact the I believe it's oppressive towards women, as others have pointed out, from a security point of view as well it makes sense.

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I like the fact that we're more tolerant than most Islamic countries though, and that we dont impose our own beliefs onto every single citizen of our country

Approving of oppression is not tolerance.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I see the Burka as a symbol of oppression, and to be quite honest I applaud Germany and France for banning it. It's backward and demeaning to women, If they don't like it then don't go to those countries.

Unfortunately its not the whole of Germany, only the state of Hesse.


Wonder if they will also fine brides wearing veils on the way to get married.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Unfortunately its not the whole of Germany, only the state of Hesse.


Wonder if they will also fine brides wearing veils on the way to get married.

Don't be silly

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Don't be silly

Oh you mean its okay for christian, jewish hindi etc women to wear veils for traditional, religious and cultural reasons but not for muslim women to do the same?

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Oh you mean its okay for christian, jewish hindi etc women to wear veils for traditional, religious and cultural reasons but not for muslim women to do the same?

Now you're being deliberately disingenuous - of course veils are worn at such ceremonies, but they are NOT worn 24/7 as you well know. To walk around in Britain today totally unidentifiable is unacceptable, and unfortunately the muslim community are doing themselves no favours when they insist on us respecting their culture and then don't have the decency and consideration to respect ours. I am particularly outraged at the two muslim councillors, ironically from the Respect Party, who refused to honour Matt Croucher who won the George Cross. Such bloody hypocrisy.