[arista]

Originally Posted by Cherie

absolutely right if the rules were in place before they accepted their places at College then they have to abide by them.

Yes and they were given a sheet with the rules,
so this is a Stunt.
(ref ch4news )

They seem to want to get on every News Station now
but the story is dead
as they are taking the piss


I smell a Rat

[Mystic Mock]

As I see it if people aren't allowed to wear hoodies then I don't believe that people should be allowed to wear a face-veil.

Both hoodies and face-veil's are dangerous to have in College as well because what if someone did commit a crime at the College and because of the hoodie or face-veil they couldn't tell what the person looked like? I totally agree with the College on this decision and I hope others follow.

[hijaxers]

Originally Posted by arista

Imaani Ali, 17, believes the ban on veils is a breach of her freedom



Feck Me this is a College Rule
they are taking the Piss.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2eewcxK8p


They were both on Ch4 News
last night.

Is this a sex thing?

i don't see why this is breaching her right to freedom - she is free to find another college ! Whats the problem

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by hijaxers

i don't see why this is breaching her right to freedom - she is free to find another college ! Whats the problem

She has no freedom.........she trapped behind yards of black cloth, unable to see properly or hear properly. she cannot see the sky or hear the birds, she probably cannot smell the flowers properly through that garb.

She cannot take in the simple pleasures of walking out in the fresh air on a summers day.

She is imprisoned in jail of her own making, so utterly brainwashed that she actually believes she wants to walk around like this.

So sad........I think the Govt need to step in and help outlaw this as it is clearly an infringement on these women's basic human rights......the right to freedom to enjoy nature in all its forms...

This inhumane degrading practice has to be stopped...NOW !!!!

[Vicky.]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-24072854

College appears to have backed down due to media stories

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-24072854

College appears to have backed down due to media stories

Fecks sake.

[Ninastar]

People should be allowed to be who they are and believe what they want. But i think when theres security risks like in this case, the college is right and she should be told not to wear it.

[Niall]

As many have highlighted in this thread already, the college is well within its rights to do this. It's a security issue, and they should be complicit with the laws as is everyone else. Personally I don't understand how full-face veil is a practical or even comfortable piece of clothing to wear but whatever..

[Ninastar]

its sad that these women are forced to believe that wearing these things are good for them. I always have the greatest sympathy for them when I see them in town on a boiling hot day.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

its sad that these women are forced to believe that wearing these things are good for them. I always have the greatest sympathy for them when I see them in town on a boiling hot day.

Me too, we were in Venice during the summer and I remember seeing a couple and the woman was covered head to toe in one of those veils in the hot sun and her husband was in a shorts and t-shirt, it was terrible to see.

[Me. I Am Salman]

tbh they should have just gone to another college

[user104658]

The only reason I take issue with them saying it restricts their religious freedom is that it's apparently not even the case. Having the face covered is not a religious requirement of Islam... it's completely cultural, and has nothing to do with religion. In short; it's a choice. As is going to college. Therefore she has a decision to make... lose the veil and continue going to college, or keep wearing the veil and stop going to college. No one is forcing her by law to remove the veil - THAT would be a restriction on her freedom - she has a choice. That is freedom.

I mean ... I find my work shoes horribly uncomfortable, I much prefer to wear trainers, in fact I keep my shoes at work and travel to/from work in trainers and then change into my shoes there. That's how much I hate wearing them. Could I go to the papers and claim that my employers are restricting my freedom of footwear choice??

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The only reason I take issue with them saying it restricts their religious freedom is that it's apparently not even the case. Having the face covered is not a religious requirement of Islam... it's completely cultural, and has nothing to do with religion. In short; it's a choice. As is going to college. Therefore she has a decision to make... lose the veil and continue going to college, or keep wearing the veil and stop going to college. No one is forcing her by law to remove the veil - THAT would be a restriction on her freedom - she has a choice. That is freedom.

I mean ... I find my work shoes horribly uncomfortable, I much prefer to wear trainers, in fact I keep my shoes at work and travel to/from work in trainers and then change into my shoes there. That's how much I hate wearing them. Could I go to the papers and claim that my employers are restricting my freedom of footwear choice??

It's not a strict requirement exactly, but it does have a long history in Islam as being an additional act of virtue. I think I'm right in saying that Mohammed's wives all wore the veil, so a lot of women do wear it to feel they are closer to God

[Me. I Am Salman]

omg it ****in pisses me off so much how ignorant people are. it may be funny for you but it's seriously seriously aggravating that people are so judgemental going by what they see in the news. Islam has disadvantages for men too you know, and in many aspects empowers women

-In Islam, women are not required to go to mosque - they have the freedom to pray at home, unlike men who are obliged to go 5 times a day and believe me, prayers at mosques are far longer and it's tough. It's especially difficult for men in Ramadan because they're required to pray late at night after an entire day of fasting for two hours in hot cramped conditions, whereas women's prayer is much shorter and from the comfort of their home & with more flexible times.
-Pregnant women do not need to fast during Ramadan
-Islam hails mothers. they're given more value than fathers and Heaven is said to lie at their feet
-The burqa is not compulsory. Women who therefore wear it are clearly choosing to cover themselves. Banning it an infringement of women's rights and goes completely against what it claims to do
-Judging a woman who does not wear a headscarf is regarded a huge sin
-Islam teaches individuals to lower their gaze and not view people as sexual objects which empowers both sexes
-pretty sure the majority of Muslim woman will tell you they don't feel oppressed so how the **** can you speak for them

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Salman!

how the **** can you speak for them

I agree. I wasn't expecting to read a thread of people agreeing with the college when I read the title, it saddens me that the majority of the people here so far have done so.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by Withano

I agree. I wasn't expecting to read a thread of people agreeing with the college when I read the title, it saddens me that the majority of the people here so far have done so.

Yup.

Originally Posted by Salman!

omg it ****in pisses me off so much how ignorant people are. it may be funny for you but it's seriously seriously aggravating that people are so judgemental going by what they see in the news. Islam has disadvantages for men too you know, and in many aspects empowers women

-In Islam, women are not required to go to mosque - they have the freedom to pray at home, unlike men who are obliged to go 5 times a day and believe me, prayers at mosques are far longer and it's tough. It's especially difficult for men in Ramadan because they're required to pray late at night after an entire day of fasting for two hours in hot cramped conditions, whereas women's prayer is much shorter and from the comfort of their home & with more flexible times.
-Pregnant women do not need to fast during Ramadan
-Islam hails mothers. they're given more value than fathers and Heaven is said to lie at their feet
-The burqa is not compulsory. Women who therefore wear it are clearly choosing to cover themselves. Banning it an infringement of women's rights and goes completely against what it claims to do
-Judging a woman who does not wear a headscarf is regarded a huge sin
-Islam teaches individuals to lower their gaze and not view people as sexual objects which empowers both sexes
-pretty sure the majority of Muslim woman will tell you they don't feel oppressed so how the **** can you speak for them

I agree that they should be allowed to wear what they want, and as long as it is solely their choice, and not compulsory (like some countries), then it really isn't anyone's business what an individual chooses to wear.

However, lets not pretend that Islam is great to/for women. Islam had a decent approach to womens rights considering the time period, but that's it. The age that Mohammed married and had sex with Aisha at, continues to this day to contribute to child abuse.

I do agree with your argument, but having women at home preparing the feasts, whilst being praised by Mohammed for praying privately in their quarters is no doubt just a happy accident.

[Me. I Am Salman]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

I agree that they should be allowed to wear what they want, and as long as it is solely their choice, and not compulsory (like some countries), then it really isn't anyone's business what an individual chooses to wear.

However, lets not pretend that Islam is great to/for women. Islam had a decent approach to womens rights considering the time period, but that's it. The age that Mohammed married and had sex with Aisha at, continues to this day to contribute to child abuse.

I do agree with your argument, but having women at home preparing the feasts, whilst being praised by Mohammed for praying privately in their quarters is no doubt just a happy accident.

well every society used to be like that, with their treatment of women and children being married (iirc there was a European king who married a girl under 10) so it's not exclusive to Islamic societies and that isn't what Islam is about. The marriage between Aisha and the Prophet SAW was only consummated when Aisha was deemed to be sexually mature and research by Islamic scholars suggest that she was actually 19 when they consummated, but whatever it was it's irrelevant to Islamic teachings and only happened because society was less developed

Originally Posted by Salman!

well every society used to be like that, with their treatment of women and children being married (iirc there was a European king who married a girl under 10) so it's not exclusive to Islamic societies and that isn't what Islam is about. The marriage between Aisha and the Prophet SAW was only consummated when Aisha was deemed to be sexually mature and research by Islamic scholars suggest that she was actually 19 when they consummated, but whatever it was it's irrelevant to Islamic teachings and only happened because society was less developed

I completely agree. Other societies did used to be like that. However, humanity progressed and challenged Christianity and Monarchies. Islam is still a relatively young religion, which hasn't reached that level yet.

Which sort of shows to me that it's humanity that progresses and changes, by challenging the dogmas we've been fed, and not the dogmas that help us progress by following them.

I am completely on your side though when it comes to this issue though.

[DanaC]

It's a pretty typical thing really. Like the West promoting democracy in some dictatorship and then getting bent out of shape when they democratically elect someone we don't approve of and who seems to us to be the antithesis of democracy.

We promote greater choice, equality and autonomy for women whose native (or ancestral) culture seems designed to remove it and then get bent out of shape when some of them choose to embrace the culture we disapprove of and which seems the antithesis of choice, equality and autonomy.

[Johnnyuk123]

If this college rule gets overturned then what next? Naturist turning up starkers? Co's if they did the whole country would kick off about that but naturists too should also be allowed to express the exact same freedom as this girl is demaning by dressing or undressing how they see fit in public just like this muslim girl has, which after all is exactly the same kind of freedom that people want.

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

If this college rule gets overturned then what next? Naturist turning up starkers? Co's if they did the whole country would kick off about that but naturists too should also be allowed to express the exact same freedom as this girl is demaning by dressing or undressing how they see fit in public just like this muslim girl has, which after all is exactly the same kind of freedom that people want.

Well naturalists would have to travel to school to begin with, and they are probably breaking laws of public decency if they traveled naked on buses.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

Well naturalists would have to travel to school to begin with, and they are probably breaking laws of public decency if they traveled naked on buses.

And if the naturists start claiming that it's a religion; that they believe covering up and part of their body (God's creation?) is an insult to Him and His work? What then? Surely, by the same rules of religious freedom that apply to the veil, it would have to be legalized... and accepted in establishments such as colleges.

You can't start picking and choosing, deeming one religion more legitimate than another... the rules have to be the same across the board. So, either it's OK for a college to disallow the veil, OR all religious freedoms are valid, and so they'd have to allow these new Naturochristians (that I have just invented AND named, awesome) to exercise their right to religious freedom by attending college buck naked.

[lostalex]

There should be one rule for everyone, no exceptions. This school is a secular environment, if you are THAT religious then you should be in a religious school that has different rules that can accomodate your religious needs.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

And if the naturists start claiming that it's a religion; that they believe covering up and part of their body (God's creation?) is an insult to Him and His work? What then? Surely, by the same rules of religious freedom that apply to the veil, it would have to be legalized... and accepted in establishments such as colleges.

You can't start picking and choosing, deeming one religion more legitimate than another... the rules have to be the same across the board. So, either it's OK for a college to disallow the veil, OR all religious freedoms are valid, and so they'd have to allow these new Naturochristians (that I have just invented AND named, awesome) to exercise their right to religious freedom by attending college buck naked.

You really don't understand the difference? Firstly, naturalists have been partaking in the removal of clothes for milennia, and not once have they even tried to claim it as religion. Naturalists seem fairly comfortable with themselves, and I really couldn't see a load of irate naked people suddenly deciding that they want to be able to be naked in the streets and in schools.

Finally, you can't just claim yourself a religion and have access to religious freedoms. There are conditions that need to be met in order to receive religious benefits. There is a name for a group of people that get together and claim they are a religion, and that is cult.

I am an anti-theist, I neither believe in, nor want any religion, but I'm arguing to allow religious freedom, I'm arguing to allow complete civil liberties, and if religious dress crosses over, then they have the right to wear what they want, be it a veil, or a beard.