[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kyle

I saw him more as Mr Tumnus

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Because they'll find LT in there dressed in a PVC catsuit, 'Marilyn' wig and full make up.

lucky guess

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

lucky guess

I hope they don't find your....ahem.... toys.

[andybigbro]

I think in terms of what you are sayig lying to kids is acceptable. There are things kids need to be lied to about.

For example, spoiling the magic of Christmas, having them believe in Santa is a wonderful thing and I know that when I was a young believing in Santa was the best thing ever.

Also children have to be lied to about serious matters because sometimes things are too graphic, or too explicit for their little ears/eyes.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by andybigbro

I think in terms of what you are sayig lying to kids is acceptable. There are things kids need to be lied to about.

For example, spoiling the magic of Christmas, having them believe in Santa is a wonderful thing and I know that when I was a young believing in Santa was the best thing ever.

Also children have to be lied to about serious matters because sometimes things are too graphic, or too explicit for their little ears/eyes.

I totally agree with this. They do need shielding from the bad things in life until they're old enough to deal with them.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I totally agree with this. They do need shielding from the bad things in life until they're old enough to deal with them.

Like what and at what age do you decide they are old enough?

There is no point lying about death for example as its part of life, its not bad it normal.

often adults shy away from reality because they dont want to face up to it themselves

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Like what and at what age do you decide they are old enough?

There is no point lying about death for example as its part of life, its not bad it normal.

often adults shy away from reality because they dont want to face up to it themselves

Agreed.....

If he asks. I tell my son the truth. I won't go out of my way to tell him horrible stuff but if he asks I tell him the truth.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Like what and at what age do you decide they are old enough?

There is no point lying about death for example as its part of life, its not bad it normal.

often adults shy away from reality because they dont want to face up to it themselves

I think kids discover the realities of life all by themselves as they grow and begin to socialise, but I have always explained matters such as life and death to them gradually - as they've grown, or when they've actually asked questions.

With religion, I left that to the schools they attended - for instance, they knew more about Allah and Mohammed than they did the four Evangelists because of school. Of my 3 children, only my daughter believes in Christ and God, and that's initially because she began to question and research for herself - just as I did.

I suppose every parent is different. I'm just grateful for the way my kids have turned out.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I think kids discover the realities of life all by themselves as they grow and begin to socialise, but I have always explained matters such as life and death to them gradually - as they've grown, or when they've actually asked questions.

With religion, I left that to the schools they attended - for instance, they knew more about Allah and Mohammed than they did the four Evangelists because of school. Of my 3 children, only my daughter believes in Christ and God, and that's initially because she began to question and research for herself - just as I did.

I suppose every parent is different. I'm just grateful for the way my kids have turned out.

I wish they did not teach religion at schools - it wastes up valuable time when they could be learning real things.

[joeysteele]

I don't think there is anything wrong as to telling stories to Children,I knew my Dad was making up stories when he told me stories when I was little.

Father Christmas,now I know I am in a massive minority here,however I found everything as to him terrifying, really.
I could not sleep on Christmas eve from aged 3 to 5 for all the wrong reasons,because I was petrified he would come into my room.
I would go nowhere near him with my Parents in Stores,I even said I wanted nothing for Christmas so he didn't have to come to our house.
I wanted nothing from him.

I still don't know why I had such a bad feeling as to Santa Claus but I was massively relieved to learn before I reached 6 that he didn't exist and that it was my family that bought and gave the presents.
I believe I was 'huffed' a bit that they had let me be scared and not said he didn't exist before.

I don't know if it was the long beard or just the idea of him being able to get into houses and into my room that worried me so much but that is likely the only thing I wish even now and moreso then that my Parents had been fully honest with me as to him.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I don't think there is anything wrong as to telling stories to Children,I knew my Dad was making up stories when he told me stories when I was little.

Father Christmas,now I know I am in a massive minority here,however I found everything as to him terrifying, really.
I could not sleep on Christmas eve from aged 3 to 5 for all the wrong reasons,because I was petrified he would come into my room.
I would go nowhere near him with my Parents in Stores,I even said I wanted nothing for Christmas so he didn't have to come to our house.
I wanted nothing from him.

I still don't know why I had such a bad feeling as to Santa Claus but I was massively relieved to learn before I reached 6 that he didn't exist and that it was my family that bought and gave the presents.
I believe I was 'huffed' a bit that they had let me be scared and not said he didn't exist before.

I don't know if it was the long beard or just the idea of him being able to get into houses and into my room that worried me so much but that is likely the only thing I wish even now and moreso then that my Parents had been fully honest with me as to him.

Wow -- It's never entered my mind that any kid could ever be frightened of Santa Joey. Made me think.

[Marsh.]

*calls NSPCC*

[Crimson Dynamo]

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

In another thread, LeatherTrumpet (in one of his more grumpy moods) raises a very intriguing question about whether we should 'lie' to our kids or not. Whilst I have never consciously lied to my kids on 'serious' matters, I delighted in 'lying' to them when they were young in order to 'enrich' their childhood.

For example, I not only always told them that Father Christmas really existed, but I also went to great lengths to convince them of it, doing the whole dressing up and creeping in to their bedroom stuff, and even faking reindeer hoof prints, boot prints and sleigh print marks on the snow covered back porch roof in snowy years.

Around Bonfire night, I used to tell them that at this time of year the night sky was full of Evil Witches who were flying on their broomsticks but had turned themselves invisible so we humans couldn't see them. I used to set off sky rockets after telling my children how, whenever one of these 'special' rockets hit an invisible witch, they would 'explode' into a burst of stars.
I'll never forget cuddling my kids close and the pure excitement on their little faces as each rocket 'hit another witch'.

What do you think? Is convincing kids of such stuff really 'Lying'?

..I don't believe in lying as such..with the Father Christmas/Santa thing and things like the tooth fairy etc...it's just a 'magic' that is a universal thing and I think to actually say from a very young age that there is no Father Christmas would be to deprive your child from something very positive to them..also from my experience, when a child does find out that it's actually parents who have been 'Santa', they do appreciate gifts more and the expense of them..?...and then their Christmas list starts to get a little more 'realistic'..?...I've never really done Bonfire Night much but with Halloween, it was always quite a big thing when the boys were younger, but just in terms of us all going Trick or Treating and we always had a big party with all of their and our friends with 'scary food' so it was something they loved because it was things we all did together and of course the dressing up bit.....but we never really talked about 'witches' as such...as they got older, we enjoyed 'scary stories' but they never thought of them as anything more than stories/fiction ..and obviously the level of scary was dependant on their age as well....


...I think it's less about 'lying' and more about finding a way to explain some of the sadder stuff to your own child/an individual thing like so many things are because a parent knows their child better than anyone and knows their level of understanding, you know/and they're the best judgement on these things..?..because these it's not 'one size fits all'...just like adults, every child is different and their understanding and processes with information is all different..there are some details of awful stuff that I personally don't feel the need to know but others would be fine with it or even feel that they 'need to know'....but for me, I wouldn't be 'brutally honest' to the point of unnecessary details when the boys were younger but I would be truthful if that makes sense...explaining on levels they understood ..a bit off topic though, with children...?..one of my own personal 'pet hates' was 'baby talk' with children...a dog is a dog, it's not a 'doggy'...a cow is not a moo moo either..it's a cow.....just using the correct words for things.....

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I don't believe in lying as such..with the Father Christmas/Santa thing and things like the tooth fairy etc...it's just a 'magic' that is a universal thing and I think to actually say from a very young age that there is no Father Christmas would be to deprive your child from something very positive to them..also from my experience, when a child does find out that it's actually parents who have been 'Santa', they do appreciate gifts more and the expense of them..?...and then their Christmas list starts to get a little more 'realistic'..?...I've never really done Bonfire Night much but with Halloween, it was always quite a big thing when the boys were younger, but just in terms of us all going Trick or Treating and we always had a big party with all of their and our friends with 'scary food' so it was something they loved because it was things we all did together and of course the dressing up bit.....but we never really talked about 'witches' as such...as they got older, we enjoyed 'scary stories' but they never thought of them as anything more than stories/fiction ..and obviously the level of scary was dependant on their age as well....


...I think it's less about 'lying' and more about finding a way to explain some of the sadder stuff to your own child/an individual thing like so many things are because a parent knows their child better than anyone and knows their level of understanding, you know/and they're the best judgement on these things..?..because these it's not 'one size fits all'...just like adults, every child is different and their understanding and processes with information is all different..there are some details of awful stuff that I personally don't feel the need to know but others would be fine with it or even feel that they 'need to know'....but for me, I wouldn't be 'brutally honest' to the point of unnecessary details when the boys were younger but I would be truthful if that makes sense...explaining on levels they understood ..a bit off topic though, with children...?..one of my own personal 'pet hates' was 'baby talk' with children...a dog is a dog, it's not a 'doggy'...a cow is not a moo moo either..it's a cow.....just using the correct words for things.....

I hate that too Ammi......

[joeysteele]

I think baby talk is okay, I aree largely with most of Ammi's post above but Doggy is okay and moo moo helps educate as to the sound a Cow makes too,just like baa baa for sheep too.
That is not lying to children just easing them into with some 'fun' expressions as to real identity of things.

Santa Claus is a different one for me as I outlined above, that is a blatant lie to children really, they are told this man can see and hear them all through the year, if he thinks they are bad, they will get nothing and other children will.
They have to,no matter what they may feel as to him, respect him for really nothing. They are shoved into Stores and often put on his knee while he spouts utter and total nonsense and lies to them.

I know I am a minority on that but it is heartening to find some other mates of mine who felt the same way in part as I did as to the idea of Santa Claus.
Tooth fairies and other things like that are less worrying, I think so anyway.

I feel Christmas is exciting enough with the decorations, lights and all the atmosphere that goes on without this lie that Santa Claus decides who gets presents and he then brings the presents, however only if you are good and he can see that you have as to all you do all the time.
Not only that he comes into your house with elves and lord knows what else.

If he cannot get in, elves come through the keyholes or letter boxes to let him in from the inside and then he gets to go all round your house and even into your own bedroom but you must never be seen to wake up then.
That to me is more like a horror story as to when I was 3 and 4.
As I said, I went to bed really stressed and scared on Christmas eve.

Once I knew at 5 years old there was no such person as Santa Claus, I loved Christmas after that and was so happy and relaxed on Christmas eve then,it was like waking up to something really good..

There is nothing wrong with some fantasy as to stories and events but I don't see fairy stories as lying.
They are I would doubt, rarely stated as being real, hence the word story.
However with this Santa Claus, he is presented as fact and as this all important figure that you must respect, do all he says and have the feeling he can see and hear everything you do all the time too.
That to me is possibly more in line with lying than fairy stories or childish descriptions of animal sounds to help identify them.

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

In another thread, LeatherTrumpet (in one of his more grumpy moods) raises a very intriguing question about whether we should 'lie' to our kids or not. Whilst I have never consciously lied to my kids on 'serious' matters, I delighted in 'lying' to them when they were young in order to 'enrich' their childhood.

For example, I not only always told them that Father Christmas really existed, but I also went to great lengths to convince them of it, doing the whole dressing up and creeping in to their bedroom stuff, and even faking reindeer hoof prints, boot prints and sleigh print marks on the snow covered back porch roof in snowy years.

Around Bonfire night, I used to tell them that at this time of year the night sky was full of Evil Witches who were flying on their broomsticks but had turned themselves invisible so we humans couldn't see them. I used to set off sky rockets after telling my children how, whenever one of these 'special' rockets hit an invisible witch, they would 'explode' into a burst of stars.
I'll never forget cuddling my kids close and the pure excitement on their little faces as each rocket 'hit another witch'.

What do you think? Is convincing kids of such stuff really 'Lying'?

That is fantastic

[Kizzy]

I agree with cherie 100% what you're doing is psychological damage and not teaching the child by positive means right from wrong.

I have lied to my kids often to protect them from being upset, there's things they just don't need to know.
I do believe in keeping the magic of santa and the tooth fairy alive as long as possible, you're an adult for a long time so to maintain the wonder of childhood is important for me.