[Cherie]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I am surprised some of those blaming Joel seem unable to read body language. He was clearly quite upset by the situation, almost panicking in the way he was moving, running around, even escaping for a few minutes in the bathroom then he probably realised he could be caught alone and went back to the others.

Aside from the situation, the discomfort, the inappropriageness, people are also forgetting he kept getting naked in Joel's bed. I'd have wanted my sheets changed if someone had been rubbing their privates parts all over my bed.

But putting it in context Jaxie, if all this happened while they were alone in the bedroom it would be creepy and horrible, as it was it was being played out by a drunk Aaron clapped on by some of the house alphas in a fully lit bedroom with 40 cameras on them, there was no danger or malicious intent, He thought he was being funny and entertaining, if anyone had stepped up to the plate and asked him to stop, including Joel he would have

[bots]

Originally Posted by Cherie

But putting it in context Jaxie, if all this happened while they were alone in the bedroom it would be creepy and horrible, as it was it was being played out by a drunk Aaron clapped on by some of the house alphas in a fully lit bedroom with 40 cameras on them, there was no danger or malicious intent, He thought he was being funny and entertaining, if anyone had stepped up to the plate and asked him to stop, including Joel he would have

Another view would be that Aaron was humiliating and demeaning Joel. Is that malicious, yes it is. Is it possible to do that in a crowded room with cameras, yes it is. It was unpleasant, and it was uncomfortable, and there is no question whatsoever, Joel did not invite Aaron to invade his personal space.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Cherie

But putting it in context Jaxie, if all this happened while they were alone in the bedroom it would be creepy and horrible, as it was it was being played out by a drunk Aaron clapped on by some of the house alphas in a fully lit bedroom with 40 cameras on them, there was no danger or malicious intent, He thought he was being funny and entertaining, if anyone had stepped up to the plate and asked him to stop, including Joel he would have

..but there again Cherie, if you flip it and the same situation with a large group of people all staying and sleeping in the same space etc but not on TV...and laughing/encouraging a misjudged situation through the fuel of alcohol etc...and Joel feeling uncomfortable but having a 'reaction' of laughter as well but also saying 'don't to the situation..just a 'collective' moment for all of them...and there not being cameras and a BB voice asking Aaron to come into the DR so diffusing it...that would never be an acceptable situation ...and would it then have become much, much more uncomfortable without a 'TV show' situation and the voice of BB....

[Cherie]

I really see little value in equating this situation to real life as it is a controlled environment or even the "insert female" into the equation, you could also flip it and ask if a female had been in Aaron's position would she have been slung out, I am judging on what I saw, what I know of Joels and Aarons personality from past encounters with HMs, and the part the other HMs took in escalating the situation.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I really see little value in equating this situation to real life as it is a controlled environment or even the "insert female" into the equation, you could also flip it and ask if a female had been in Aaron's position would she have been slung out, I am judging on what I saw, what I know of Joels and Aarons personality from past encounters with HMs, and the part the other HMs took in escalating the situation.

..I agree that it makes no difference to the sexes of the housemate's involved Cherie and the laughter/all a joke situation was completely escalated by the other housemates of course but Joel also said 'don't' 'stop' 'please stop' etc several times with that laughter...if all had just been laughter and only laughter then it may give a different impression to Aaron but in any situation like that and regardless of place/time etc the words of importance were said and should have been heard..(by all housemates as well..) which were asking Aaron to stop and he didn't because he wasn't listening to Joel, all he was hearing was laughter...and a laughter which sadly effected his judgement...if there was any playing up type thing I think it was him doing it and ignoring Joel's pleas for him to stop...

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Cherie

But putting it in context Jaxie, if all this happened while they were alone in the bedroom it would be creepy and horrible, as it was it was being played out by a drunk Aaron clapped on by some of the house alphas in a fully lit bedroom with 40 cameras on them, there was no danger or malicious intent, He thought he was being funny and entertaining, if anyone had stepped up to the plate and asked him to stop, including Joel he would have

The problem was, all this was done in front of a giggling and encouraging audience and because Aaron is a little diva, he revelled in all that attention. I don't believe Aaron would of done what he did without that laughing audience. This didn't start in the bedroom, it started during that game when it was suggested that Joel kiss Aaron on the lips (lips that have had the start of a possible cold sore for the last few days) and it just grew from there.

Joel didn't know how to handle the situation in the living room and then the bedroom because he could see the rest of his house mates cheering Aaron on. He was deeply embarrassed but tried to make light of it because doing otherwise would of labelled him a spoil sport. Although Joel appears to be very grown up for his age, he's still a child and at his age, sexuality and how people perceive his sexuality is of the utmost importance. Joel didn't go to the diary room to complain, he went to the diary room to reiterate to the world and especially his friends that he's straight and wasn't happy with the present goings on in the house.

Would this of been okay if one of the guys had done this to one of the girls? Would the other house mates of cheered a guy on to flash himself and make sexual suggestions at one of the girls? If the answer is no, then what Aaron did was not okay.

Aaron and every house mate who enters the BB house know the rules. Aaron broke one of those rules and so there's nobody to blame but himself.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

The problem was, all this was done in front of a giggling and encouraging audience and because Aaron is a little diva, he revelled in all that attention. I don't believe Aaron would of done what he did without that laughing audience. This didn't start in the bedroom, it started during that game when it was suggested that Joel kiss Aaron on the lips (lips that have had the start of a possible cold sore for the last few days) and it just grew from there.

Joel didn't know how to handle the situation in the living room and then the bedroom because he could see the rest of his house mates cheering Aaron on. He was deeply embarrassed but tried to make light of it because doing otherwise would of labelled him a spoil sport. Although Joel appears to be very grown up for his age, he's still a child and at his age, sexuality and how people perceive his sexuality is of the utmost importance. Joel didn't go to the diary room to complain, he went to the diary room to reiterate to the world and especially his friends that he's straight and wasn't happy with the present goings on in the house.

Would this of been okay if one of the guys had done this to one of the girls? Would the other house mates of cheered a guy on to flash himself and make sexual suggestions at one of the girls? If the answer is no, then what Aaron did was not okay.

Aaron and every house mate who enters the BB house know the rules. Aaron broke one of those rules and so there's nobody to blame but himself.

[ThriceShy]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I am surprised some of those blaming Joel seem unable to read body language. He was clearly quite upset by the situation, almost panicking in the way he was moving, running around, even escaping for a few minutes in the bathroom then he probably realised he could be caught alone and went back to the others.

Aside from the situation, the discomfort, the inappropriageness, people are also forgetting he kept getting naked in Joel's bed. I'd have wanted my sheets changed if someone had been rubbing their privates parts all over my bed.

If what you say is true then why didn't big brother intervene earlier?

They watched it all live and unedited and would have seen upset joel was.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Nancy Littlebottom

I can't believe he was kicked out for that. He wasn''t even bloody erect.

It looked to me like he was taking the piss out of Joel, so I don't think he meant any harm. It was just a bit of fun. Do you think if Joel hadn't have kicked up such a stink in the diary room Aaron would still be there?

I agree Joels entry in the diary room was the nail in the coffin and if he had maybe said how he actually felt instead of trying to save face on the outside by waffling a load of ****e then a warning would have been given and we would have had one of the better hm still in.

[-Sue-]

Looking back on the evening the time in the bath (Joel & Aaron)
Aaron - 'you know what I do to you is pure banter'
Joel - 'I Know'

^^^^^^ would have been a perfect time for Joel to pipe up that sometimes things Aaron does make him uncomfortable.. but did he .. no

Even on the sofa's during spin the bottle
Joel ' I would much rather kiss you on the bottom'
(when he was given dare to kiss Aaron on lips)

[Nancy.]

Originally Posted by -Sue-

Looking back on the evening the time in the bath (Joel & Aaron)
Aaron - 'you know what I do to you is pure banter'
Joel - 'I Know'

^^^^^^ would have been a perfect time for Joel to pipe up that sometimes things Aaron does make him uncomfortable.. but did he .. no

Even on the sofa's during spin the bottle
Joel ' I would much rather kiss you on the bottom'
(when he was given dare to kiss Aaron on lips)

That's another thing.

If Joel was really bothered by Aaron, then why did he place himself in that situation? Surely, if you're uncomforable with someone, the last thing you would do is share a bath with them? and did you guys notice anybody else in the room? I didn't.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Nancy Littlebottom

That's another thing.

If Joel was really bothered by Aaron, then why did he place himself in that situation? Surely, if you're uncomforable with someone, the last thing you would do is share a bath with them? and did you guys notice anybody else in the room? I didn't.

..being in the same bath was Joel's own decision to do so though, what happened in the bedroom wasn't, Joel asked Aaron to stop...

[Ellen]

Originally Posted by Nancy Littlebottom

That's another thing.

If Joel was really bothered by Aaron, then why did he place himself in that situation? Surely, if you're uncomforable with someone, the last thing you would do is share a bath with them? and did you guys notice anybody else in the room? I didn't.

I dont think Joel was uncomfortable with Aaron as a person but was very uncomfortable with Aaron getting overly sexual with him.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Nancy Littlebottom

That's another thing.

If Joel was really bothered by Aaron, then why did he place himself in that situation? Surely, if you're uncomforable with someone, the last thing you would do is share a bath with them? and did you guys notice anybody else in the room? I didn't.

Sharing a large bath with someone (also when clothed) is hardly invitation for them to begin rubbing themselves on you naked..tbh

I don't think Aaron always made Joel feel uncomfortable, however there have been moments when I have thought hes pushed it a bit much. Even so, if Joel was completely comfortable with it until last night then thats besides the point. I have said so many times since yesterday but most straight guys would NOT be amused with another guy thrusting his naked body at him and bending them over, but may be ok with other (less OTT) behavior...

[Beso]

He wants to kiss Aarons bottom, rather than his lips..well he had the chance when it was shoved in his face.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by parmnion

He wants to kiss Aarons bottom, rather than his lips..well he had the chance when it was shoved in his face.

[Valdora]

If Joel was a woman they wouldn't have even called Joel in, he would have been gone straight the way.

[Beso]

To be honest in my opinion the only time see joel feeling uncomfortable is when asked about his sexuallity not during the more touchy feel games.