[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I don't know any party promising Utopia.
Labour are predicting really bad things if some things aren't addressed.

We have no detail on how they intend to stop these fuel payments or the means testing they may use.
Which may have people who really need it to slip through the safety net.

Do you know the detail.
It's not in the manifesto or do the Cons just have to day something for it to be right and everyone else wrong.

This policy,like many others such as the bedroom charge,may end up costing to more to implement than the cost now.
I bet the Cons aren't scrutinised and challenged the way Labour, Lib Dems and other Parties are as to the finer detail.

No wonder May won't do any real challenging debates.

Well we know they ALL lie,it depends I suppose on the lies we choose to believe.

[reece(:]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Well Livia at least they are telling us the truth and not filling us with pipe dreams of a perfect Utopia that will never happen, this is one reason I like them,they dont tell people what they want to hear,they don't curry favour with the public, not everything can be sweet for everyone.

Optimism in our future > "no deal is better than a good deal" etc etc

[Kazanne]

Some wealthy pensioners themselves have said they dont need it,so I dont see a problem as long as those that are in need still get it, seems sensible to me.pensioners on basic pension and are not well off will still get it.People moan when they feel the wealthy are being looked after by the Tories,these are wealthy people regardless of age.

[arista]

"Scrapping free school meals"


Yes but they are doing free breakfast
for every school

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by arista

"Scrapping free school meals"


Yes but they are doing free breakfast
for every school

Oh but that will get overlooked arista

[MTVN]

At the last election the Tories were criticised for protecting well-off pensioners at the expense of the young, well they're not doing that anymore. You always have to make these calls in politics, just as Labour have decided to prioritise students over the poorer classes by scrapping tuition fees instead of reversing benefit cuts

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by MTVN

At the last election the Tories were criticised for protecting well-off pensioners at the expense of the young, well they're not doing that anymore. You always have to make these calls in politics, just as Labour have decided to prioritise students over the poorer classes by scrapping tuition fees instead of reversing benefit cuts

[Mystic Mock]

The Conservatives again attacking another group of people, does this party honestly ever do anything positive? It's all negative attacks on individual groups all of the time, I honestly don't get how they get off on it, or more importantly why a large chunk of the public get off on it aswell by voting for this disgraceful party.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

The Conservatives again attacking another group of people, does this party honestly ever do anything positive? It's all negative attacks on individual groups all of the time, I honestly don't get how they get off on it, or more importantly why a large chunk of the public get off on it aswell by voting for this disgraceful party.

I think some of the public just look past the initial things that are put forward by parties, you need to see the reasons behind some things,not just jump to conclusions people are being targeted, such as the winter fuel payments,some pensioners don't need it and don't want it,these are the ones that are 'targeted' it wont be taken off the needy.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I think some of the public just look past the initial things that are put forward by parties, you need to see the reasons behind some things,not just jump to conclusions people are being targeted, such as the winter fuel payments,some pensioners don't need it and don't want it,these are the ones that are 'targeted' it wont be taken off the needy.

But as someone has already said on this thread, who determines the line of wealthy and who's "in need?" I would honestly like the Tories to do something positive again like when they brought forward gay marriage.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I think some of the public just look past the initial things that are put forward by parties, you need to see the reasons behind some things,not just jump to conclusions people are being targeted, such as the winter fuel payments,some pensioners don't need it and don't want it,these are the ones that are 'targeted' it wont be taken off the needy.

Good point..

Why shouldnt the better off pensioners be asked to pay a little bit more.

I bet a lot of them dont even bother with the free travel cards etc they get tjat they dont even need as they have plenty money stashed away.

And lets be honest, most of them will be tory voters anyway.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Good point..

Why shouldnt the better off pensioners be asked to pay a little bit more.

I bet a lot of them dont even bother with the free travel cards etc they get tjat they dont even need as they have plenty money stashed away.

And lets be honest, most of them will be tory voters anyway.

May hasn't decreed what exactly constitutes a "better off" pensioner though has she, at what level of income do you think they should lose this benefit as a matter of interest? And when she does reveal it AFTER she is elected we will see how close you were just for fun of course

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Cherie

May hasn't decreed what exactly constitutes a "better off" pensioner though has she, at what level of income do you think they should lose this benefit as a matter of interest? And when she does reveal it AFTER she is elected we will see how close you were just for fun of course

Any ideas of a figure yet Parm?

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

The Conservatives again attacking another group of people, does this party honestly ever do anything positive? It's all negative attacks on individual groups all of the time, I honestly don't get how they get off on it, or more importantly why a large chunk of the public get off on it aswell by voting for this disgraceful party.

Disgraceful party indeed,good description.

We hear the argument richer pensioners don't need it so now,after years of it being right they got it with a Conservative promise of them continuing.
It's fine now since the Cons have changed their minds.

Now it should only go to poorer pensioners.
Scratch deep below the service, this will mean complex means testing,more form filling as to rooting out any savings and checks on individuals.
The cost likely outweighing any savings,with many vulnerable slipping through whatever supposed safety net,this disgraceful govt has in place,if any at all.

Now this sudden concern for the poor,this govt.set up ESA with 2 groups,the support group and the work related activity group, for people deemed sick and disabled.

On a whim this govt despite admitting those in the wrag group were considered too ill or disabled to work for likely a minimum of 6 months.
Voted to slash £25+ a week from those in the wrag group.

Disgraceful,disgusting and shameful and very little outcry from Con supporters as to that.

You paint the right picture in your post of the Cons,I'm ashamed I ever counted myself a supporter of them in my late teens.

Never again, not this heartless,cruel and hardline set up the Cons have in place now with this 100% deceitful waste of space leader Mrs May.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Disgraceful party indeed,good description.

We hear the argument richer pensioners don't need it so now,after years of it being right they got it with a Conservative promise of them continuing.
It's fine now since the Cons have changed their minds.

Now it should only go to poorer pensioners.
Scratch deep below the service, this will mean complex means testing,more form filling as to rooting out any savings and checks on individuals.
The cost likely outweighing any savings,with many vulnerable slipping through whatever supposed safety net,this disgraceful govt has in place,if any at all.

Now this sudden concern for the poor,this govt.set up ESA with 2 groups,the support group and the work related activity group, for people deemed sick and disabled.

On a whim this govt despite admitting those in the wrag group were considered too ill or disabled to work for likely a minimum of 6 months.
Voted to slash £25+ a week from those in the wrag group.

Disgraceful,disgusting and shameful and very little outcry from Con supporters as to that.

You paint the right picture in your post of the Cons,I'm ashamed I ever counted myself a supporter of them in my late teens.

Never again, not this heartless,cruel and hardline set up the Cons have in place now with this 100% deceitful waste of space leader Mrs May.

I think Joey that we all got spoilt in this country under Labour, and now we're acting out because we as a country are bored, but I do think that history will look back at this time as moronic for allowing such a spiteful party to rule like this for so long, just like Margaret Thatcher's time is looked on badly by most people.

[Cherie]

Scottish Torys have said Scottish pensioners won't be means tested, only English and Welsh ... I guess only the English and Welsh "wealthy" pensioners don't need it

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Scottish Torys have said Scottish pensioners won't be means tested, only English and Welsh ... I guess only the English and Welsh "wealthy" pensioners don't need it

Apparently that's down to their climate :/

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

I think Joey that we all got spoilt in this country under Labour, and now we're acting out because we as a country are bored, but I do think that history will look back at this time as moronic for allowing such a spiteful party to rule like this for so long, just like Margaret Thatcher's time is looked on badly by most people.

Thatcher was a saint compared to this lot. The problem is, those who did well under Thatcher, the ones who bought their council houses for a pittance and sold them years later for a kings ransom, will always be nostalgic about the Tory party.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Thatcher was a saint compared to this lot. The problem is, those who did well under Thatcher, the ones who bought their council houses for a pittance and sold them years later for a kings ransom, will always be nostalgic about the Tory party.

Let's not get carried away DR...

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Thatcher was a saint compared to this lot. The problem is, those who did well under Thatcher, the ones who bought their council houses for a pittance and sold them years later for a kings ransom, will always be nostalgic about the Tory party.

My problem with Thatcher is that she honestly never cared that she treated the North like ****.

I don't live up North, and hell I wasn't even born when Thatcher was in charge, but I honestly can't get over that she basically allowed those Mining Strikes to go on knowing that the workers were starving and tired because they was being mistreated, and people honestly think that Labour or Lib Dems are worse than this cold hearted party? But I'll agree with you that the current Tory party is worse as I'm currently living through their period and they're effecting me.

[DemolitionRed]

If you are a well off pensioner you are expected to pay for your own nursing home care, if you ever need it and lets face it, none of us know if we are going to get dementia and need years of nursing home care.

What is considered 'well off'? Is it owning their own home and therefore having releasable assets? Is it having a £100k savings? is it millionaires? what's the figure?

Private nursing homes are often over £1K a week, so that's £56K a year without any extras.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

If you are a well off pensioner you are expected to pay for your own nursing home care, if you ever need it and lets face it, none of us know if we are going to get dementia and need years of nursing home care.

What is considered 'well off'? Is it owning their own home and therefore having releasable assets? Is it having a £100k savings? is it millionaires? what's the figure?

Private nursing homes are often over £1K a week, so that's £56K a year without any extras.

The current situation with this seems to be that they will take every penny that is considered "yours". My wife's grandmother is in a care home now, as of January this year. Her grandad had something like £300k savings and they own their house and basically what happens is, half of that is considered hers and half his, and they will expect all of her grandmother's half to be used before the state will pay for care. So £150k. The house is exempt because her grandfather still lives in it, and they can't touch "his half" of the savings pot they have.

However if it's a single old person and there's no living spouse, they will take the lot. All of the savings, sell off the house and use the money from that, every last penny before state help is available.

The short story is...... ... If you want to leave your house and savings to your children, gift those assets to them long before it becomes an issue. Past 70 start transferring everything you can out of your name and into theirs.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The current situation with this seems to be that they will take every penny that is considered "yours". My wife's grandmother is in a care home now, as of January this year. Her grandad had something like £300k savings and they own their house and basically what happens is, half of that is considered hers and half his, and they will expect all of her grandmother's half to be used before the state will pay for care. So £150k. The house is exempt because her grandfather still lives in it, and they can't touch "his half" of the savings pot they have.

However if it's a single old person and there's no living spouse, they will take the lot. All of the savings, sell off the house and use the money from that, every last penny before state help is available.

The short story is...... ... If you want to leave your house and savings to your children, gift those assets to them long before it becomes an issue. Past 70 start transferring everything you can out of your name and into theirs.

Regarding your last paragraph I completely agree. This is somrthing all my family plan to do. Gift, gift, gift as far in advance as you can.

[Northern Monkey]

I think these including the dementia tax and lack of costings from the Tories really shows an arrogance.They're hitting a section of their core voters and they know they're still getting a landslide.

[Kizzy]

They don't know that, nothing is set in stone.