[Lostie!]

Originally Posted by Livia

Lostie, what's that in your sig? Is it a TV series?
(sorry for being momentarily off-topic)

Yeah it's from Fringe

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I think it is quite important to figure out what "makes him tick" or what clear psychological problems or damage lead to these incidents - though not with the goal being to try to mend or rehabilitate him... I think it's pretty clear that it will never be safe to have him in society; if he's obtaining child porn then it's pretty clear that he still has no empathy in relation to what he did, and he is still getting thrills from kids suffering... Him reoffending and hurting someone is almost a certainty if he got the opportunity.

But it's still worth examining what "created him" in the first place, so that in future, carers / schools / social services etc. are better equipped to identify risk early and intervene long before something tragic happens.

I don't believe that anyone is "born evil" - there is some reason or set of circumstances that turned these kids into cruel murderers.

Yeah, I'll go with most of that. Find out what makes him tick, maybe it'll help people in the future. But never, ever let him out. I do disagree about people being born evil. I think some people are, not because they're bad for the sake of it, but because there're a couple of synapses that aren't firing in the same way everyone else's are.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Lostie!

Yeah it's from Fringe

Just looked it up, how'd I miss it? I love all that alternate universe stuff... I'm going to dig it out. Thanks!

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

Yeah, I'll go with most of that. Find out what makes him tick, maybe it'll help people in the future. But never, ever let him out. I do disagree about people being born evil. I think some people are, not because they're bad for the sake of it, but because there're a couple of synapses that aren't firing in the same way everyone else's are.

There are definitely people who are born with a predisposition to sociopathy / psychopathy but that's not the same as "evil", and if it's caught early enough then those people are far less likely to ever be dangerous or hurt anyone. Just as with what Cherie was saying - not everyone who endures trauma becomes dangerous or a killer, in fact most people do not. The "perfect storm" comes when someone who is predisposed to those issues AND has it "activated" by circumstance... which is part of what makes it so important to identify early and intervene. I have absolutely no doubt that Venables was born with psychological differences to most people, but I also think it's likely that he may never have actually physically harmed anyone if he had been born under different circumstances.

[Cal.]

Just ****ing shoot him fgs.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

Just looked it up, how'd I miss it? I love all that alternate universe stuff... I'm going to dig it out. Thanks!

As a pre-warning... Fringe doesn't really get all that interesting until like half way through Season 2 and doesn't get heavily into the alternative universe stuff until S3. S1 is actually kind of a slog...

[Crimson Dynamo]

shoot Fringe too

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Imo Joey,justice was never done for James, there was always the do gooders that knew better than anyone else and wanted to go easy on them,yeah,looks like it.

I obviously agree.

For me,it is trying to comprehend the sadness,trauma and hurt Jamie's parents and family must suffer through
this individual.

Likely never is anger more justified that they must have as to this,and especially Venable's new arrest again.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's not that simple really, you can't just say that "not all abused kids go bad so theres no reason that any abused kid should go bad"... Psychology is nuanced and complex, and some people simply break.

That said; some broken people are dangerous and "unfixable", and that has to be accepted too. I fully believe that both of those boys are both criminals AND victims, and that tragically one / some of the people guilty for what happened - whoever is responsible for creating the monsters - will never feel the full force of the law for what happened.

In fact, most serial killers and some of the world's most dangerous people were once victims. But that doesn't mean it's safe, or a good idea, to let them back into society. I guess you can compare it to dogs? Pretty much all vicious dogs that attack and maul people have been physically abused extensively. But that doesn't mean it's a good idea to rehome them... They are always going to be a hair away from hurting someone else.

That's a good analogy actually.

The problem then is you find out he had a bad upbringing and then want to punish his parents but they probably had a bad upbringing too etc etc

The bottom line is whether they had a bad up bringing or not, it's not safe for innocent children to have people like him released into society. And with crimes like this one, I don't think he ever should have been because the only way to test out if rehabilitation has worked is by putting more children at risk and that is not acceptable imo

[smudgie]

Time to throw away the key.
He has had his chance at rehabilitation and it hasn't worked.
We have seen what he was capable of as a child, let's not wait for it to happen again now he is an adult with a sick mind.

[Tom4784]

It'll be a cycle that continues for the rest of his life, it would be good if they could issue him with a life sentence but changing the law for the sake of one case is never a good idea. The best we can hope for is that he doesn't end up hurting anyone else in the process.

Originally Posted by Livia

He should be locked up for the rest of his life. Sadly, there are people already worrying about his rehabilitation and his human rights. They'll make sure he's paroled as soon as possible... and so it goes on. Concerned people will want to find out what makes him tick and try to mend him. Personally I'd be happy to see him hang.

Human Rights should always be protected and they are an absolute, Human Rights for all citizens in the UK or none at all, it doesn't work when you pick or choose who gets them. If anyone is concerned about Human Rights issues in this casethen it's not out of concern for Venebles but more likely for the rights themselves. We live in an age where people often are quick to want to throw away their rights out of fear or a sense of malice which in itself is incredibly silly and an insult to the people who have died to preserve the rights we have.

Just reading about places where Human Rights are not in effect should make people more grateful for what we have and make them want to protect what we have.

[Kazanne]

His parents live with this everyday,no help for them,they just have to get on with it, and if he is parolled again,(which he will be) they know that the person who killed their little son, is given chance after chance,where was James's 'chance' ,they were barbaric in their acts and Venables obviously still likes to see kids in torment and pain, how must that make James's parents feel,time to lock him up now he is a dangerous 35 year old.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

His parents live with this everyday,no help for them,they just have to get on with it, and if he is parolled again,(which he will be) they know that the person who killed their little son, is given chance after chance,where was James's 'chance' ,they were barbaric in their acts and Venables obviously still likes to see kids in torment and pain, how must that make James's parents feel,time to lock him up now he is a dangerous 35 year old.

It's horrific, I really don't know how those poor people even get through the day knowing what happened to their baby I can't understand how peadophiles and child torturers/murderers are ever allowed back into society

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by Livia

Just looked it up, how'd I miss it? I love all that alternate universe stuff... I'm going to dig it out. Thanks!

Fringe is a brilliant show. Kind of reminds me of the x files during their glory days.

[Vanessa]

Some people can't be redeemed and he's one of them. How many more chances he needs? He belongs in jail

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Cherie

would you really? I think it has already been established he came from an abusive background with no boundaries, given his age when he was incarcerated he has had many years in rehabilitation, something a lot of adults who came from abusive backgrounds never had any access to and have managed to go on and live their lives without resorting to type.

Throw away the key this time, he is a danger to be out on the streets

not everyone is the same though. yeah, LOCK HIM UP...and use him for research.

[Beso]

after watching the prison programme life behind bars last night, I doubt this original case would be such a massive story these days.

KID was abused, kid goers on to abuse..kid gets jailed and rehabilitated...gets out and commits another crime...who do we blame...him/his abuser or the system for failing him...or all three...

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It'll be a cycle that continues for the rest of his life, it would be good if they could issue him with a life sentence but changing the law for the sake of one case is never a good idea. The best we can hope for is that he doesn't end up hurting anyone else in the process.



Human Rights should always be protected and they are an absolute, Human Rights for all citizens in the UK or none at all, it doesn't work when you pick or choose who gets them. If anyone is concerned about Human Rights issues in this casethen it's not out of concern for Venebles but more likely for the rights themselves. We live in an age where people often are quick to want to throw away their rights out of fear or a sense of malice which in itself is incredibly silly and an insult to the people who have died to preserve the rights we have.

Just reading about places where Human Rights are not in effect should make people more grateful for what we have and make them want to protect what we have.

I understand the Human Rights Act.I also know that people who work in the legal area of the Human Rights Act in this country do it mostly for the money, not for altruistic reasons.

In my opinion, we shouldn't be worrying about the human rights of people who have acted inhumanely. There are plenty of people in the world who haven't murdered a child, for whom human rights is a happy dream. They're the ones I'd be more interested in protecting.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Livia

I understand the Human Rights Act.I also know that people who work in the legal area of the Human Rights Act in this country do it mostly for the money, not for altruistic reasons.

In my opinion, we shouldn't be worrying about the human rights of people who have acted inhumanely. There are plenty of people in the world who haven't murdered a child, for whom human rights is a happy dream. They're the ones I'd be more interested in protecting.

Again, Human Rights have to apply to all Humans that live in areas where it's in effect otherwise it doesn't work. We can't pick and choose.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Again, Human Rights have to apply to all Humans that live in areas where it's in effect otherwise it doesn't work. We can't pick and choose.

I know. But I'd like it better if we could.

[Northern Monkey]

Disgraceful little twat should’ve never been allowed to mix with humanity again.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Again, Human Rights have to apply to all Humans that live in areas where it's in effect otherwise it doesn't work. We can't pick and choose.

What about little James's human rights to a life? Even though Venebles ended that childs life forever before it had barely begun, he has been given every chance to make a decent life for himself, much much more than he deserved...and he's still a perverted bastard. He doesn't deserve any more 'human rights', the laws should be changed to make sure filth like him never see the outside of a cell again.

[LaLaLand]

Honestly we have the weakest justice system in the world imo. It's disgusting, sick human being.

Makes my blood boil how him, the other one and others like them are able to live cushy, paid-for lives after committing such obscene crimes.

[y.winter]

Third time in jail. The man is a walking danger. Are they seriously going to let him go this time?!

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

His parents live with this everyday,no help for them,they just have to get on with it, and if he is parolled again,(which he will be) they know that the person who killed their little son, is given chance after chance,where was James's 'chance' ,they were barbaric in their acts and Venables obviously still likes to see kids in torment and pain, how must that make James's parents feel,time to lock him up now he is a dangerous 35 year old.

That's the whole thing for me.
This happened the year after I was born.

Poor Jamie would have been around my age now,it's shocking that he was brutally robbed of his life.
Yet this person has been able to go out and still commit wrongdoing.

I've seen newsreel where his Mother looked totally broken,honestly how he ever got released under any circumstances is beyond my understanding.
It's awful,truly awful.