[Livia]

Originally Posted by Withano

That time we only ever had one election because Livia kicked up a fuss about the first one being democratic so the rest are not.

It's unlikely that we're going to continue with referendum after referendum until we reach the result you prefer.

Imagine if 'remain' had won and Brexiters started demanding another referendum. I can imagine what your reaction would be. YOU would be lecturing ME about democracy.

[Scarlett.]

Originally Posted by Livia

It's unlikely that we're going to continue with referendum after referendum until we reach the result you prefer.

Imagine if 'remain' had won and Brexiters started demanding another referendum. I can imagine what your reaction would be. YOU would be lecturing ME about democracy.

No one is asking for third or fourth votes, only Theresa May does that.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Livia

It's unlikely that we're going to continue with referendum after referendum until we reach the result you prefer.

Imagine if 'remain' had won and Brexiters started demanding another referendum. I can imagine what your reaction would be. YOU would be lecturing ME about democracy.

Untrue. If there was genuine motive for a new referendum after remain won (like an ibvious shift in mindsets or ukip ever winning a single seat) then it would be worth discussing again.

The mindset of 2016 is not a reason to go against the mindset of people in 2019. And if the mindset shifts once more in 2022 back to leaves favour - it would be stupid to ignore it based on how we felt in 2019.

[Rob!]

Originally Posted by Livia

Anecdotal evidence is not useful here.
.

Neither is denial from the facts.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Rob!

Neither is denial from the facts.

You haven't presented any facts. That's my point.

[Rob!]

Originally Posted by Livia

You haven't presented any facts. That's my point.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8521346.html

https://www.businessinsider.com/poll...18-4?r=US&IR=T

Just a couple of the multitude of opinions on the subject that took me about 2.5 seconds to find on Google. Opening your eyes may well show you more.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Livia

Anecdotal evidence is not useful here.




Remainers seem to have lost their grasp of what democracy means. It's not open to interpretation.

And what are we leaving? What have people voted to leave? Do they even know themselves?
EU
Single Market
Customs' Union

You do realize you can leave EU and remain in the other two? They may be conflated with the EU but in fact they are stand-alonge entities. That was not asked.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

And what are we leaving? What have people voted to leave? Do they even know themselves?
EU
Single Market
Customs' Union

You do realize you can leave EU and remain in the other two? They may be conflated with the EU but in fact they are stand-alonge entities. That was not asked.

Is this you not patronising me again, sugar squared? You're sh1t at it x

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Livia

Is this you not patronising me again, sugar squared? You're sh1t at it x

doesn't answer my question

edit: and no, I'm not trying to patronise, that' just my style of discussion
so get used to it and lay off those lame accusations

[Crimson Dynamo]

The last time I heard the prof guy from Glasgow uni (who is the referendum voting expert) he said that a new ref would garner the exact same result so he would advise strongly against it

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

The last time I heard the prof guy from Glasgow uni (who is the referendum voting expert) he said that a new ref would garner the exact same result so he would advise strongly against it

You could well be right, but why do you think there is such opposition to putting up a brexit leave plan up against a remain?

[Crimson Dynamo]

A second referendum would be a blow to the heart of our parliamentary democracy. It would introduce the principle – elitist to the core – that the legitimacy of a political decision rests upon a judgment about the knowledge that informed it. And it would rely on a dirty plebiscitarianism as a way out of the political impasse in Westminster. Those arguing for a second referendum should be careful what they wish for. Chaos is rarely a harbinger of good outcomes.

• Chris Bickerton teaches politics at Cambridge University

https://www.theguardian.com/global/c...y-peoples-vote

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

A second referendum would be a blow to the heart of our parliamentary democracy. It would introduce the principle – elitist to the core – that the legitimacy of a political decision rests upon a judgment about the knowledge that informed it. And it would rely on a dirty plebiscitarianism as a way out of the political impasse in Westminster. Those arguing for a second referendum should be careful what they wish for. Chaos is rarely a harbinger of good outcomes.

• Chris Bickerton teaches politics at Cambridge University

https://www.theguardian.com/global/c...y-peoples-vote

There wasn't a concrete plan to leave first time around. Do you agree with that?

I'm not talking about a general leave or remain referendum, I'm talking about get a brexit plan together and put that on a ballot against remaining.

Would that really be an attack on democracy?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

A second referendum would be a blow to the heart of our parliamentary democracy. It would introduce the principle – elitist to the core – that the legitimacy of a political decision rests upon a judgment about the knowledge that informed it. And it would rely on a dirty plebiscitarianism as a way out of the political impasse in Westminster. Those arguing for a second referendum should be careful what they wish for. Chaos is rarely a harbinger of good outcomes.

• Chris Bickerton teaches politics at Cambridge University

https://www.theguardian.com/global/c...y-peoples-vote

Don't ever ask for a second Scottish ref in your lifetime then

[bots]

Sack all our current mp's and get a new lot in that actually reflect the views of their constituents

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Sack all our current mp's and get a new lot in that actually reflect the views of their constituents

[James]

I'd say leave with May's deal, which is (mainly) only a transitional arrangement anyway, and would buy us two more years to find some sort of consensus about the future relationship with the EU.

It would probably end up being soft Brexit one way or another.

[reece(:]

Revoke or leave with Norway plus/Canada arrangement

[bots]

i think if no deal looks like being the way we are heading, having voted against that in the majority only last week, they should then revoke with the condition of there being a new referendum.

The referendum should then be a simple choice, remain or leave without a deal. This means everyone is clear on exactly what their choice is and there will be no further negotiation with the EU

[Crimson Dynamo]

I must say there is a certain irony about TM and her deal and the referendum

"its no good" says parliament

"wait let me try again" says may

"its no good" says parliament

"wait, look at it now, iv changed the font" says may

"its no good" says parliament

"wait, let me give a billion quid to the DUP, how about now? says may

"its no good" says parliament



"how about another referendum PM?" says the Great British Public


says May - you had one, Brexit means Brexit, how dare you

[Rob!]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I must say there is a certain irony about TM and her deal and the referendum

"its no good" says parliament

"wait let me try again" says may

"its no good" says parliament

"wait, look at it now, iv changed the font" says may

"its no good" says parliament

"wait, let me give a billion quid to the DUP, how about now? says may

"its no good" says parliament



"how about another referendum PM?" says the Great British Public


says May - you had one, Brexit means Brexit, how dare you

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I must say there is a certain irony about TM and her deal and the referendum

"its no good" says parliament

"wait let me try again" says may

"its no good" says parliament

"wait, look at it now, iv changed the font" says may

"its no good" says parliament

"wait, let me give a billion quid to the DUP, how about now? says may

"its no good" says parliament



"how about another referendum PM?" says the Great British Public


says May - you had one, Brexit means Brexit, how dare you

this about sums it up

[James]

I don't think a second referendum bill would get through parliament, simply because too many MPs are in leave-voting constituencies, and they would be worried about losing their seats.

[Kazanne]

7+ million people voted to leave so that is what should happen, it's only got so messy as ministers who want to stay are having tantrums everytime something is put on the table,they have to do what is right by us and not themselves.The country will be fine we have stood on our own two feet before and will do again.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

7+ million people voted to leave so that is what should happen, it's only got so messy as ministers who want to stay are having tantrums everytime something is put on the table,they have to do what is right by us and not themselves.The country will be fine we have stood on our own two feet before and will do again.

well i have more worries for shortage in food and medicine in UK with no deal brexit