[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

How was I being "aggressive"?

Ok, no problem Livia, clearly you need to do a bit of googling yourself though before making incorrect statements like Israel is the only country in the Middle East where women can vote.

I don't rely on Google.

Go and compare the Middle East countries with Israel, and find out about women's freedom. Find out about religious freedom... it doesn't exist. And yet, Israel is home to not only Jews, but also Muslims and Christians. Imagining life for a woman generally in the Middle East allows them the same freedoms that Israel does is wrong. I know that doesn't fit the anti-Israel narrative. But hey...

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

I didn't say Arab, I said Middle East. And there's no need to be aggressive.

I suppose to understand, you have to know a little bit about the status of women in those "middle eastern" countries. Maybe you could Google that.

It wasn't that long ago that you were surprised when I said about the anti-Semitism I'd experience, you told me that you didn't know that Jew-hate was a thing. You were actually surprised that people hate Jews. So I'm not comfortable continuing this conversation with you.

Hang on a second there, what are you saying? I make you uncomfortable for pointing out Israel isn't the only country where women can vote in the Middle east because I asked you about Anti Semitism before? Ok then...... nice deflection

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Hang on a second there, what are you saying? I make you uncomfortable for pointing out Israel isn't the only country where women can vote in the Middle east because I asked you about Anti Semitism before? Ok then...... nice deflection

No, it means that I'm surprised you're quite so anti-Israel when you weren't even acquainted with anti-Semitism. Leads me to question how you form your opinions. And actually, it makes me understand how anti-Semitic posts are allowed to remain on this forum until someone makes a fuss.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

I don't rely on Google.

Go and compare the Middle East countries with Israel, and find out about women's freedom. Find out about religious freedom... it doesn't exist. And yet, Israel is home to not only Jews, but also Muslims and Christians. Imagining life for a woman generally in the Middle East allows them the same freedoms that Israel does is wrong. I know that doesn't fit the anti-Israel narrative. But hey...

Ok, but what you said was "Israel is the only country in the Middle East where women can vote" that's not true.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

No, it means that I'm surprised you're quite so anti-Israel when you weren't even acquainted with anti-Semitism. Leads me to question how you form your opinions. And actually, it makes me understand how anti-Semitic posts are allowed to remain on this forum until someone makes a fuss.

How am I anti Israel? Would you like to quote a single post of mine which is "anti Israel" You don't even have to search through other threads, which one of my posts in this thread, is anti Israel?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Ok, but what you said was "Israel is the only country in the Middle East where women can vote" that's not true.

That's not true Niamh. Okay? I was wrong to say that. I should have said Israel is the only country in the Middle East (not Africa....) where women have political freedom and where their vote always counts, whether they're Jew, Arab... whatever they are.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

That's not true Niamh. Okay? I was wrong to say that. I should have said Israel is the only country in the Middle East (not Africa....) where women have political freedom and where their vote always counts, whether they're Jew, Arab... whatever they are.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

How am I anti Israel? Would you like to quote a single post of mine which is "anti Israel" You don't even have to search through other threads, which one of my posts in this thread, is anti Israel?

It's clear you are anti-Israel. Go and read your own posts. It's too upsetting for your to watch the videos. The Internet is rife with hoax stories and accompanying pictures and videos of Israeli soldiers doing unspeakable things and everyone's all so willing to believe it.

You're a moderator. I've seen awfully anti-Semitic things said on this forum and they've stayed there for ages. And yet in the "rules" it says not to tell you how to do your jobs, you see everything. I'm paraphrasing of course. I would expect one person from the moderation team might have picked something up as anti-Semitic.... but no.

I don't really have anything else to add now... unless you do?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Unlike you to be so childish.

[Nicky91]

yeah i guess middle-east is correct

but here's something interesting too

The IFA was a member of the Asian Football Confederation (AFC) from 1954 until 1974, when it was expelled due to political pressure from Arab and Muslim members that refused to play against Israel. From then until 1992, the IFA was not affiliated with any confederation. During this period, the Israeli national teams played only in FIFA competitions and occasionally in OFC, UEFA and CONMEBOL qualifying tournaments.
In 1992, the IFA was admitted to UEFA as an associate member, becoming a full member two years later. Since 1992, Israeli clubs have played in the various UEFA club competitions, while the national teams have played in UEFA championships.

so honestly, football wise Israel was first part of Asia's AFC until they got banned after refusing to play against other Arab/Muslim countries, political pressure thing

and since 1992 they are a part of europe's UEFA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel...ll_Association

Israel was able to enter the contest as the Israel Broadcasting Authority (IBA) is a member organisation of the European Broadcasting Union

and that being their reason (being able to) participate in eurovision song contest, since they are a member of the EBU prior to their debut in 1973


and here it is arab-israeli conflict ongoing for 71 years, 5 months, 3 weeks and 1 day now since 1948

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab–Israeli_conflict

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

It's clear you are anti-Israel. Go and read your own posts. It's too upsetting for your to watch the videos. The Internet is rife with hoax stories and accompanying pictures and videos of Israeli soldiers doing unspeakable things and everyone's all so willing to believe it.

You're a moderator. I've seen awfully anti-Semitic things said on this forum and they've stayed there for ages. And yet in the "rules" it says not to tell you how to do your jobs, you see everything. I'm paraphrasing of course. I would expect one person from the moderation team might have picked something up as anti-Semitic.... but no.

I don't really have anything else to add now... unless you do?

Me saying it's too upsetting for me to watch a guy getting shot makes me "anti Israel" ummmm ok...... I never watch videos like that. Is that literally your evidence of me being "Anti Israel" Really? Not wanting to watch a guy getting shot?

[Kizzy]

Well, I've seen it all now castigated for reading through a thread... :/
I don't agree with the fake news tack you're adopting here, but I don't wish to be accused of anything for expressing a view.
I think it's clear there is not equality for all living in Israel man or women until there is then there will always be unrest. That's my opinion.

[The Slim Reaper]

I think these kind of accusations are a bad look all round. If people can't debate without going straight to the "you hate jews", then that's just as insulting to jews as anyone else. There is no borg-like jewish mind (and to say there was used to be an actual antisemitic trope, not a fake one}, and what made judaism a better approach to the madness of the Abrahamic faith was the openness to science and debate, and not accusing anyone that says something they don't like of being antisemitic. There are Jewish groups that oppose Israels policies and their system of apartheid, are those jews antisemitic or jew haters too?

Refusing to acknowledge the truth about what is happening makes people as closed minded as any of the fundamentalist mullahs they claim to be better than.

[Kizzy]

Among Palestinians, despair is widespread. “The times are rotten,” my nephew Aziz told me upon my return, echoing Hamlet. There is growing awareness here that Israel’s international campaign to demonise criticism of its colonial policies as a form of antisemitism is succeeding. And there is no hope to be found in Israel: none of the parties contesting the elections on Tuesday are talking about the occupation or proposing how to end it. Instead they are competing to see who can promise the most to the settlers.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...tion-netanyahu

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Livia

No, it means that I'm surprised you're quite so anti-Israel when you weren't even acquainted with anti-Semitism. Leads me to question how you form your opinions. And actually, it makes me understand how anti-Semitic posts are allowed to remain on this forum until someone makes a fuss.

And that's the thing those equating any criticism of israel with antisemitism have trouble understanding, like in this post.
You can be against actions of this soldier without being antisemite.
You can be against israel stealing occupied land without being antisemite

[Tom4784]

The whole idea that saying anything critical of Israel is anti-semitic is just a way of silencing voices speaking out against the government and the administration that run it. You can criticise Trump without being xenophobic against the US, you can criticise the Tories without being anti-UK etc.

Accusing someone of being anti-semitic based on nothing is quite low and it undercuts the suffering of Jews by turning it into a cheap weapon to silence people with valid views. Critcising the human rights abuse that the Israel government have carried out against Palestinian citizens is not the same as hating jews and it's just incredibly bad faith to make it out to be.

[Kizzy]

Call me a northern thicky but how do you claim democracy for a country divided into 3 enclaves with a different ruling body for each?

[smudgie]

So, who actually shot who in the end?

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by smudgie

So, who actually shot who in the end?

It says in the op.

The off topic that occurred on this thread later doesnt change anything.

[SherzyK]

Originally Posted by smudgie

So, who actually shot who in the end?

The Israeli soldier shot the Palestinian

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

It says in the op.

The off topic that occurred on this thread later doesnt change anything.

In your opinion of course.
In my life it did, by the time I read a few pages of off topic I was no wiser if it was a soldier shooting his girlfriend..or showing his girlfriend, or if it was some random woman, or maybe a woman soldier shooting an innocent random.
I did however get the bit about it being rubber bullets...cos it got me singing
to an old 10cc tune.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by SherzyK

The Israeli soldier shot the Palestinian

Thanks Shezyk, all a tad confusing for me today.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by smudgie

In your opinion of course.
In my life it did, by the time I read a few pages of off topic I was no wiser if it was a soldier shooting his girlfriend..or showing his girlfriend, or if it was some random woman, or maybe a woman soldier shooting an innocent random.
I did however get the bit about it being rubber bullets...cos it got me singing
to an old 10cc tune.

The info was a bit messed up in the op, Smudgie. It was actually a female soldier that shot the unarmed civilian as he walked away. She has since been fired for it.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

The info was a bit messed up in the op, Smudgie. It was actually a female soldier that shot the unarmed civilian as he walked away. She has since been fired for it.

Good.
She should end up in court as well for me.
Thanks for the info TSR.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Good.
She should end up in court as well for me.
Thanks for the info TSR.

Some follow up

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a9184141.html