[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Christ @ the mindsets of some people in this thread. Two wrongs certainly don't make a right, and the more we encourage violence and torture, the more it is going to happen. It's common sense, really. Whilst I don't agree with the ridiculously short sentences these disgusting people receive, some of the suggestions for 'punishments' made in this thread are absolutely disgusting. I don't know about most people, but I would much rather see a criminal suffer for decades on end in prison than killing them quickly. And I know that doesn't happen, but that is what needs to happen.

As far as 'inhumane' things go, the furthest I would go is leaving the criminal in a cell with no clothes, no water, no food, absolutely until they eventually die.

But as I've already said, it would then teach kids that we accept and promote violence and torture - and we'd end up with even more criminals than we have now.

PMSL,you've got some room to talk about peoples mindsets,lol you the one who thought jokes about kids being taped to a wall were funny,but of course you had the excuse that you thought the incident was terrible!! but the jokes made up about it were funny,Go figure.

[setanta]

Originally Posted by BB_Eye

This is all well and good if you see violence, in and of itself, as morally wrong and human beings, irrespective of their actions, as inherently valuable and deserving of rights. But really, in a democracy, it is civilians who have rights, not humans. When people lose their citizenship, they have effectively broken a social contract and lose many of the rights they would have enjoyed as civilians. Under a custodial sentence, it would be a right to vote, freedom of movement and a right not to be held against your will. This is totally fair given that criminals are convicted for violating other people's rights. While I am not in favour of capital punishment, I strongly disagree with and resent the notion that people who advocate the execution of the worst criminals are "just as bad".

True David, but I've always loved the quote - can't remember who said it- that goes something like... "A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members." Think it was Gandhi.

Anyway, the point being is that paedophiles are weak, they're incurable - as of right now anyway - and obviously they're one of the biggest ethical problems that we face as a society, you know?

The other thing is that most of them don't last pi$$ing time once they're in prison, unless of course they're sent to one of those institutions as a study subject.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

what about the parents that strapped the toddler to a wall? they should be dead and so should these.

We should bring back the death penalty for people who tape a kid to a wall now?

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by kazanne

PMSL,you've got some room to talk about peoples mindsets,lol you the one who thought jokes about kids being taped to a wall were funny,but of course you had the excuse that you thought the incident was terrible!! but the jokes made up about it were funny,Go figure.

Yes, because surprise ****ing surprise, they're called jokes. J-o-k-e-s. Jokes. Do you know what that word means?

I said the incident was terrible - and it was. And so is this. But the jokes were funny because I have a dark sense of humour. I thought we established this and moved on? Evidently not. So I take it I still like to torture animals [or whatever the laughable thing you said was]?

At the end of the day having a dark sense of humour [which is not causing anyone any physical harm] and wishing to inflict physical pain/torture on people are two completely different things - the latter of which is far, far worse.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by kazanne

Shows the 'soft' option isn't working then!

I don't think there is a problem with the judicial system as such, just the way the punishments themselves are dealt with. Prison isn't what it used to be, its now more about rehabilitation than punishment and they're made quite comfortable. Some prisons allow their prisoners to have XBox's in their cells! Opening a can of worms, prisoners have just as many human rights as we do. Do they really deserve it after violating someone elses? It seems extreme but I think a return to Victorian style incarceration is needed and the numbers would soon drop.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by kazanne

and as it happenes I would prefer to see a criminal be behind bars for decades,but they don't do they?they get a cushy ride,

And I didn't dispute that...infact I said I knew that wasn't the case. But there's not much I can do about that, is there? But it doesn't mean instead we need to resort to the death penalty and mass slaughter and torture, does it?

Originally Posted by kazanne

Would you feel the same if it was YOUR child?

Yes, yes I would. Because I wouldn't want to teach my other children [if I had any] or any other children that I knew that torture and violence and murder is right. What good is there in that? Teach 'em early and then let them turn into a murderer or a bully when they get older? Yeah, because that's really what I want them becoming. Come on...use your brain for once. Two wrongs don't make a right. Most of these things are taught. A bully was oftened once bullied themselves, paedophiles were often sexually abused when they were children. So by teaching our kids that violence, murder and torture is an acceptable form of punishment what good are we really doing? Go ahead and do that if you like but at the end of the day we're going to end up living in a even less-safer world than we are in now.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Jack_

And I didn't dispute that...infact I said I knew that wasn't the case. But there's not much I can do about that, is there? But it doesn't mean instead we need to resort to the death penalty and mass slaughter and torture, does it?



Yes, yes I would. Because I wouldn't want to teach my other children [if I had any] or any other children that I knew that torture and violence and murder is right. What good is there in that? Teach 'em early and then let them turn into a murderer or a bully when they get older? Yeah, because that's really what I want them becoming. Come on...use your brain for once. Two wrongs don't make a right. Most of these things are taught. A bully was oftened once bullied themselves, paedophiles were often sexually abused when they were children. So by teaching our kids that violence, murder and torture is an acceptable form of punishment what good are we really doing? Go ahead and do that if you like but at the end of the day we're going to end up living in a even less-safer world than we are in now.

Stop getting your pampers in a twist,it must piss you off so much that I don't agree with you about anything,You have no kids,I have ,I also know the pain of people I know and love losing a child to violence,so don't tell me to use my brain,my brain is at least in gear and Yes I know what a joke is ,I laugh at different ones to you,I have NEVER found a joke about abuse or murder funny,thank God,and who advocated mass slaughter,torture and the death penalty!!!?

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by kazanne

Stop getting your pampers in a twist,it must piss you off so much that I don't agree with you about anything,

Not really...

Originally Posted by kazanne

You have no kids,I have ,I also know the pain of people I know and love losing a child to violence,so don't tell me to use my brain,my brain is at least in gear

Well, really it's not if you want to teach your kids/other kids that violence and torture is a good form of punishment?

Originally Posted by kazanne

and Yes I know what a joke is ,I laugh at different ones to you,I have NEVER found a joke about abuse or murder funny,thank God,

Exactly. So why can't you accept that I have a different sense of humour to you and that just because I have a different sense of humour to you I don't condone or participate in torture of animals/humans? It's quite pathetic, really.

Originally Posted by kazanne

and who advocated mass slaughter,torture and the death penalty!!!?

That is the conclusion you would come to based on your posts in this thread...

[joeysteele]

I read this thread and wanted to contribute to it but kazanne has said everything I would have wanted to say and she is 100% spot on.
Whatever 'evil' is or means as far as life goes,then people who abuse children are it,pure and simple.
These stories make me feel sick and what concerns me is just how many people are getting away with this rotten abuse, day in day out, every week every year. Generally in the childs own home too where it should not only be safe but also feel safe.

Well said kazanne on all counts, you speak for everyone with even the slightest shred of decency.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by kazanne

The Social services,Oh yes like the ones who saved baby Peter,Victoria Climbie,Kyra Isshak,Jessica Randal,Brandon Muir,I could reel a page off.I don't think we ARE better than the criminals if we sit back and do nothing,I am not saying lets have a mass slaughter,but at least let the punishment fit the crime,some people are evil,simple as.

Calm Down De Niro, you've already replied to that point before.

Originally Posted by kazanne

But they are NOT punished fairly imo,that is why people get so angry at the British Justice System,it is a joke.

At the end of the day the justice system is what it is, if we had a system based around most suggestions I've heard here the world would be worse then it is now. Jack said it perfectly, two wrongs don't make a right no matter how you cut it.

If we end up lobotomizing people, torturing them, killing them, taking away bodily functions then the only thing that seperates us from the criminals is a gravely misplaced sense of justice. It's up to us to be BETTER then the people we judge, not to play them at their own game. You do that and you lose.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Calm Down De Niro, you've already replied to that point before.



At the end of the day the justice system is what it is, if we had a system based around most suggestions I've heard here the world would be worse then it is now. Jack said it perfectly, two wrongs don't make a right no matter how you cut it.

If we end up lobotomizing people, torturing them, killing them, taking away bodily functions then the only thing that seperates us from the criminals is a gravely misplaced sense of justice. It's up to us to be BETTER then the people we judge, not to play them at their own game. You do that and you lose.

I agree, that is the bottom line here imo.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Not really...



Well, really it's not if you want to teach your kids/other kids that violence and torture is a good form of punishment?



Exactly. So why can't you accept that I have a different sense of humour to you and that just because I have a different sense of humour to you I don't condone or participate in torture of animals/humans? It's quite pathetic, really.



That is the conclusion you would come to based on your posts in this thread...

Mind reader now are we,lol,i do accept you have a dark sense of humour ,it doesn't mean I have to agree with it,and where did i ever say i wanted to teach my children that violence and torture is a good form of punishment?All I said was 'chop their hands off' or 'steralize them' both said as throw away lines as people say in anger or disbelief,they also say "I'll rip your head off" it doesn't mean we wish to carry it through,blimey!!stop taking things so literally ffs,but on second thoughts,IF they had no hands they would never hurt anyone else and if they were steralized they'de have no kids to abuse so perhaps it's worth a thoughtWe will never agree,so perhaps it's better we just dont answer each others posts,there,problem solved

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I agree, that is the bottom line here imo.

Yeah that's what I've been trying to say really.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Calm Down De Niro, you've already replied to that point before.



At the end of the day the justice system is what it is, if we had a system based around most suggestions I've heard here the world would be worse then it is now. Jack said it perfectly, two wrongs don't make a right no matter how you cut it.

If we end up lobotomizing people, torturing them, killing them, taking away bodily functions then the only thing that seperates us from the criminals is a gravely misplaced sense of justice. It's up to us to be BETTER then the people we judge, not to play them at their own game. You do that and you lose.

What was the point of the De Niro remark,was that a joke also?

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by kazanne

What was the point of the De Niro remark,was that a joke also?

That was because you were being slightly over agressive with everyone and considering the subject matter it was another Taxi Driver reference. So yes it was a joke, calm down.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

That was because you were being slightly over agressive with everyone and considering the subject matter it was another Taxi Driver reference. So yes it was a joke, calm down.

I am splitting my sides here(NOT)I had the impression this was a serious debates thread and we should post our opinions about things that interest us,unless of course they are opinions you disagree with,I get it now!!!

[lily.]

We need to lock up child sex offenders, and keep them locked up.

Experts say they can't be cured, so why allow them the freedom to re-offend.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by kazanne

I am splitting my sides here(NOT)I had the impression this was a serious debates thread and we should post our opinions about things that interest us,unless of course they are opinions you disagree with,I get it now!!!

There's a difference between posting your opinion and cramming it down people's throats and positively screaming anyone down who doesn't agree Kazanne.

By all means dissect my last point if you can instead of trying to divert attention away from it...you know...debate something?

Here's my last post, try to argue against it.

At the end of the day the justice system is what it is, if we had a system based around most suggestions I've heard here the world would be worse then it is now. Jack said it perfectly, two wrongs don't make a right no matter how you cut it.

If we end up lobotomizing people, torturing them, killing them, taking away bodily functions then the only thing that seperates us from the criminals is a gravely misplaced sense of justice. It's up to us to be BETTER then the people we judge, not to play them at their own game. You do that and you lose.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by lily.

We need to lock up child sex offenders, and keep them locked up.

Experts say they can't be cured, so why allow them the freedom to re-offend.

Spot on Lily

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by angus58

You will also get idiots who argue that we should treat this scum in a civilised manner. Why? What would be the point in keeping vermin like this in the land of the living to inflict pain on innocent children if they get half a chance. If I were the parent of an abused child I'd be waiting outside the prison gates on their release to inflict my own brand of justice since the judicial system in this country is pathetically inadequate.

Excellent post.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by kazanne

You have no kids,I have

you say that like it's an achievement.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

There's a difference between posting your opinion and cramming it down people's throats and positively screaming anyone down who doesn't agree Kazanne.

By all means dissect my last point if you can instead of trying to divert attention away from it...you know...debate something?

I have my reasons for hating child abusers,I haven't screamed anyone down,I don't care who doesn't agree with me,i DO care that certain people find that if something is said in a 'joke' then it's ok to laugh at,but each to their own.

[Iceman]

*walks in, looks around, goes back to arguing with pregnant lesbian woman*

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Shaun

you say that like it's an achievement.

It IS an achievment and the best thing in the world,to have a child is or should be a blessing.

[lily.]

If they were locked away for life.. and I do mean 'life' .. until the day they die, then we wouldn't have to worry about them hurting another child.

I don't agree with taking the law into our own hands. Where would be the point in that? Where does that lead society? The problem in this country is the lenient laws we have. If criminals got proper sentences appropriate to the crime, then the public wouldn't be ready to dole out their own unique brand of twisted justice.

If the law were changed and sentences were given which reflect the severity of the crime... and the public felt safe as a result, there wouldn't be so many people ready to take the vigilante route..

However, taking the vigilante route is not the answer to the problem. It will only create wider problems. Who would decide where to draw the line? When would it be okay to deal with things yourself?





That all being said, if it were my baby, I'd kill the ******.
(I just sh!t all over my previous points with that last sentence.. )