[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Stu

Oh give that tired old rhetoric a rest would you. Everything you said their could be applied to religious people too if I were into weak arse, wank assumptions. No matter how much I love or hate atheists that's just such a lazy argument from people of faith. Of course atheists are going to broadcast their stance on the issue, share information on the universe with other atheists and so on. Very few people are natural atheists considering most of us were reared with religion. Information had to convert them and they now share this information with others.

Are you saying because atheists don't believe that they should not be allowed debate with religious people? After all they know and have their own beliefs. Why don't they just shut up unlike the religious people. Yeah. Atheists should just shut the hell up. So should people in various other positions to give out knowledge or their interpretation and opinion on it. Yeah. Just shut up. You big loosers. We don't want to hear your side of the story because it might in some way threaten ours.

Prominent atheists are not trying to padlock local churches. They are trying to point out that maybe ... just maybe ... religious faith is fallacious in nature and maybe just maybe it has caused a lot of harm and we ought to rethink it a bit. They have every right in the world to do that.

That pissant generalization of 'oh you believe too and you need reassurance too nyah nyah nyah nyah nya nya' applies even more to religious people. I could rewrite that same argument to apply to ... oh I don't know ... people who need a sacred scripture for reassurance and then go to the streets to shout about it aloud in no general direction. But then that doesn't bother me. I think they are wrong, but I respect and cherish their right to free speech.

Atheists are overwhelmingly more closeted than religious people about their beliefs. That just makes a complete mockery of your last sentence.

Did I say that my point couldn't be applied to religious people too?

Sorry that you just wasted your time typing up that very long reply when you didn't really need to.
My point was about the atheist we are discussing: the man in the video and to an extent Arista. I could have worded my reply more clearly but it was in response to Arista's post which was basically being patronising to all religious people. It's like saying all muslim's are terrorists, it's not true.

And religious people don't need the sacred scripture to back up anything. The scripture is the cause of their beliefs and religion is all about faith, which isn't about having solid proof.

Suppose it just winds me up when people rant about religion being wrong. "There is no god", "How can you believe in something you can't see" etc, etc. Yet do they have proof that God doesn't exist?

And whoever posted "Whatever the truth is, Religion is far from it". Well, religion is a pretty broad spectrum in general, they don't all believe in the same things. And whether a specific religion is "whatever the truth is" or not, how would you know?

[Sticks]

Atheists show quite a lot of faith

They have to believe that nothing gives rise to something, That which is non living gives rise to to living, in spite of all experiments proving the contrary and unconscious gives rise to conscious.

[InOne]

I think "Atheists" that argue Religion and there isn't a God all that time aren't proper Atheists, they care too much. I was like that at one point, got quite into Dawkins and all that, now I just don't bother or even think about it.

[Angus]

Still not one shred of proof either way really, is there?

[InOne]

Originally Posted by angus58

Still not one shred of proof either way really, is there?

Depends what your idea of a God is?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes it should be
all these God Freaks Preach Rubbish.

Do you think that only people like the man on your video should be afforded a voice?

I would like to think that you can believe what you want to believe and leave me alone to believe what I believe without ridiculing me. That's all I ask. I can't believe some people get so angry and upset because other people believe in God or worship in a different way.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Livia

Do you think that only people like the man on your video should be afforded a voice?

I would like to think that you can believe what you want to believe and leave me alone to believe what I believe without ridiculing me. That's all I ask. I can't believe some people get so angry and upset because other people believe in God or worship in a different way.

So May God Freaks Do Damage
to this World.


I can Fully Understand the Anger at God Nutters
like Bin Laden or GW Bush.
Both used there God as the backer to what hell they did.



There is No Proven God


It is the best way to be
No God.

[BB_Eye]

I disagree that atheism is a faith like religions are. Atheism, at least in the anglophone tradition, is taking an empirical argument and using it as your grounds for knowledge. If you don't agree that knowledge can be mostly, if not exclusively, derived from experience, then fair enough. It's open to debate, but doubt is not the same thing as faith.

Personally I don't think you can profess a non-belief in God without also dismissing the Judaeo-Christian idea of good and evil (is Christian morality not equally as supernatural as Christian faith?) and I'll bet very few self-proclaimed atheists would be willing to do that

[Livia]

Originally Posted by arista

So May God Freaks Do Damage
to this World.... etc etc.

Being a Jew, I'm well aware of the damage people do to each other because they misunderstand each other's faith or lack of it. I believe we have to be tolerant of each other without trying to convert others. If you don't believe in God, that's your of personal feeling. I don't agree; but I have no interest in trying to convince or convert you. We can agree to disagree.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by InOne

Depends what your idea of a God is?

Empirical evidence does not yet exist either for or against the existence of deity(ies), so ultimately a person's idea of God will fit in with their unique belief system and they will rationalise and justify the existence of their deity(ies) of choice. I neither believe nor disbelieve in God(s), as I think the jury is still out, but rather in a way of life that I feel comfortable living, the principle tenet of which is to treat others as you would like to be treated. That simple principle covers most bases.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by angus58

Empirical evidence does not yet exist either for or against the existence of deity(ies), so ultimately a person's idea of God will fit in with their unique belief system and they will rationalise and justify the existence of their deity(ies) of choice. I neither believe nor disbelieve in God(s), as I think the jury is still out, but rather in a way of life that I feel comfortable living, the principle tenet of which is to treat others as you would like to be treated. That simple principle covers most bases.

Still, any idea you have is an invented one (by man) And you don't need to be religious to follow the golden rule

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by arista

So May God Freaks Do Damage
to this World.


I can Fully Understand the Anger at God Nutters
like Bin Laden or GW Bush.
Both used there God as the backer to what hell they did.



There is No Proven God


It is the best way to be
No God.

Funny how you ridicule religious people for pushing their views on other people, or trying to convert people yet you're the one stating your OPINIONS as fact and stating that there is categorically NO GOD. The term "God" being a diverse term anyway.

I'm willing to participate in a discussion about religion and faith but you're just rude. Don't even listen to people's points. Just ignore it, say "You're wrong" and move on. Very intelligent.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by InOne

Still, any idea you have is an invented one (by man) And you don't need to be religious to follow the golden rule

It does seem strange that in this day and age with all the scientific advances and technology etc, no-one is able to definitively disprove the existence of God(s), anymore than all the religions in the world are able to offer definitive proof of the existence of their worshipped deity(ies). My point exactly is that the only tenet necessary to ensure harmony, justice, fairness and decency IS the "golden rule" I, and thankfully many others live by. I consider atheism as much a "religious" belief as any other, since it is entrenched, stubbornly held and blindly followed despite there being no empirical evidence to support it.

[arista]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

Funny how you ridicule religious people for pushing their views on other people, or trying to convert people yet you're the one stating your OPINIONS as fact and stating that there is categorically NO GOD. The term "God" being a diverse term anyway.

I'm willing to participate in a discussion about religion and faith but you're just rude. Don't even listen to people's points. Just ignore it, say "You're wrong" and move on. Very intelligent.

If Only Life was that Simple.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

Did I say that my point couldn't be applied to religious people too?

Sorry that you just wasted your time typing up that very long reply when you didn't really need to.
My point was about the atheist we are discussing: the man in the video and to an extent Arista. I could have worded my reply more clearly but it was in response to Arista's post which was basically being patronising to all religious people. It's like saying all muslim's are terrorists, it's not true.

And religious people don't need the sacred scripture to back up anything. The scripture is the cause of their beliefs and religion is all about faith, which isn't about having solid proof.

Suppose it just winds me up when people rant about religion being wrong. "There is no god", "How can you believe in something you can't see" etc, etc. Yet do they have proof that God doesn't exist?

And whoever posted "Whatever the truth is, Religion is far from it". Well, religion is a pretty broad spectrum in general, they don't all believe in the same things. And whether a specific religion is "whatever the truth is" or not, how would you know?

What about the man in the video and Arista? They are every bit as hopelessly fundamentalist as ... well ... fundamentalists it would seem. I'm still not in favour of levelling the 'no you shut up!' argument at them.

I'm not a strict atheists by the way. I just sound a lot like one considering I would rather defend them in their cause to wrangle any semblance of world power away from the type of religious people who believe word for word in The Bible and suchlike.

I have my own quasi-spiritual-cosmic-arse-psychedelic-casualty views I usually revert back to every four or five days when I realize that strict atheism as simple as it is to get on with simply doesn't satisfy me enough.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by arista

If Only Life was that Simple.

I wasn't telling you to move on.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Stu

I'm still not in favour of levelling the 'no you shut up!' argument at them.

Then you misunderstood my original post. That wasn't my intention and like I said in my second post, I could have worded it better.

[arista]

For 08Marsh

Me Rude?

[arista]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

I wasn't telling you to move on.

I know you were not.

Thats why I picked it.

[Sticks]

On the other hand

This title



Is also available from Amazon

[arista]

Of course Sticks
But mine was from Play.com

[arista]

Of course Sticks
But mine was from Play.com

[Harry!]

Originally Posted by arista

Of course Sticks
But mine was from Play.com

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by arista

For 08Marsh

Me Rude?

I love science fiction. Thanks for the tip.

[Stu]

It's not science fiction though. It's conclusion is that '... there is probably no God'. It doesn't make anything up or set forth an absoloute theory of everything for a model dependant universe, regardless of Dawkin's own beliefs.