[Redway]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

the rich aren't the ones with the problems though. That's the very point.

Pro rata, you will find the numbers of impoverished people far far outweight those who are classed as rich.

Fair enough, Pyramid. I see your point.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

When was the last time you visited any African country? Serious question. How many have you visited, seen houses made from rusting corregated steel, piss and crap floating by makeshift front doors that are no more than a filthy ragged bit of scrap material?

I have visited several and believe me, there is far more poverty and destitution than many people are aware of.

Was like that when I went on holiday to tunisia. Was in hammamet, obviously the tourist area. But literally about 5 minutes walk away was the locals houses. I hooked up with a tunisian guy who worked in the hotel i was in, he took me to mine, and I was actually disgusted at the place he was living :/

There were about 20 people there, in a hut thing, with just kinda a hole where they all **** and pissed. It stunk to the high heavens. Really opened my eyes and made me grateful for my own house and living in a developed country

[InOne]

At the end of the day there is plenty going on with our own country. We have kids over here that are in poverty and I'd rather concentrate on that.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by InOne

At the end of the day there is plenty going on with our own country. We have kids over here that are in poverty and I'd rather concentrate on that.

I have the same thought myself these days. ie: Let's get our own house in order first .....

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I have the same thought myself these days. ie: Let's get our own house in order first .....

Yeah, like tmi said we help others out too much without sorting our own problems out first.

[Liberty4eva]

I think a more practical way to help africa would be for the western world to eliminate its subsidies on agriculture.

[AJ.]

yeah although it would probably be wasted, they seem to spend all the money on cures rather than prevention.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I wonder if anyone would help us if...say a tsunami hit us. Unlikely to happen yeah, but interesting to wonder. I cant see it myself tbh.

If you consider recent natural disasters in two of the three richest economies - USA (Hurricane Katrina) and Japan (earlier this year) - both of these received a lot of donations even from countries with little to spare. And they're traditionally seen as economically stable (although the current debt problems might say otherwise ) I don't think the Red Cross or other such worldwide charities are that swayed by politics.

I probably would but like others have said I'd rather make sure it went to something useful rather than the plane fares there. Though I guess someone has to pay for that :/

[Jords]

If I could personally hand it over Id give them 2 days.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Jords

If I could personally hand it over Id give them 2 days.

Very good point, that is why I originally said in my earlier post that one organisation should be handling the funds donated, fully accountable to those who have donated and that it is clearly seen that the aid goes 'directly' to those who need it and that the results are documented and shown to all.

I also think contraception is vital, not in a forced way but encouraged to be used, there is absolutely no point in bringing children into the World to die as babies and children. I am pleased to see the poll has moved away from the firm 'no' level it was at in the beginning.

If contraception is denied becasue of a church or religious issue then that also needs to be thrown out too, if any church objects in the continent of Africa to contraception then that church should feed and protect the starving and sick babies and children too.

I doubt very many children in the UK are starving to death or unable to get basic medical aid,we do have poverty in the UK but a free NHS there for all,(at present anyway).
I am with you Jords on this,I would be happy to donate much more if I could see exactly who gets the funding, what it does and have it well documented as to showing the aid going direct to the people who need it.

I really hate seeing the film of babies and children who didn't ask to be born, who had no choice but to be born,who are now dying slowly and painfully for basic food and medical help.
For evil to thrive good people just need to sit back and do nothing (or words to that effect) is an old saying very apt to this problem.

[AJ.]

^
But alot have kids so they can go & earn :/

If we wanted to help we could, if the world pitched in & sacrificed their luxuries we could have it sorted in <10yrs but we don't want to because we're naturally greedy & selfish. The lack of care or urgency in those who have power is pretty disgusting..

[Ammi]

No I wouldn't give a day's pay, there wouldn't be any point, African Governments are so so corrupt and only a small amount of aid given actually gets through to the people who need it anyway. It was the same with BandAid, they struggled to get the aid through. Much better to save that money and go out there and help out - help build classrooms in Namibia is something I would hope to do. Two or three weeks of people's lives will make much more of a difference.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by rhino

No I wouldn't give a day's pay, there wouldn't be any point, African Governments are so so corrupt and only a small amount of aid given actually gets through to the people who need it anyway. It was the same with BandAid, they struggled to get the aid through. Much better to save that money and go out there and help out - help build classrooms in Namibia is something I would hope to do. Two or three weeks of people's lives will make much more of a difference.

I agree that in the past aid has not got in total to the areas and those it was given for, that is why I and Jords are saying all aid given must be clearly proven to be going angdhave gone to the people who need it.

In Somalia for instance, one major problem seems to be the Somalian guerrillas or rebels who won't let aid through also, well the other African nations in the area should make sure those rebels are cleared away forthwith so that aid can get through.

I agree with you, past funds have been wasted and that is why it needs to be fully transparent as to how much is given and how and where it goes,ensuring all of it gets to those who need it.
None handed to govts or politicians of those Nations though.

[ElProximo]

There is nothing wrong with having children. There is nothing wrong with having babies. People don't cause starvation. People solve it. Or cause it.
One reason why we can send 100 million to Africa is because our Grandparents had a lot of children. So now there are 1000s of Brits who exist and work efficiently and produce grain, boats, Aid Charities.

If you double the number of Kenyans you can have twice as many people producing twice as many crops, bringing in twice as many tourists (and their money) and producing twice as many energy-efficient innovations.
You could have twice as many Africans paying taxes into hospitals and making twice as many Aids-vaccines of the future.

So there is nothing wrong with having people. Birth rates can double or triple or quadruple and be good or bad.

The problem is that we have existing people in Africa who are doing things like destroying crops (or the ability to even make such a thing),
and
creating puppet regimes which are then attacked and murdered and replaced with another gang of criminals who set up a new 'President' and meanwhile nothing is being built or repaired and no social programs etc.
and,
Gangs of Somalian warlords are sitting on enough grain to easily feed 1000 new babies however they use the grain as 'money' and for 'power' and 'loyalty' etc.
There is enough food to feed twice as many babies per village,
but,
the warlord is punishing the village for not helping him kill another warlord.

but its not having children that is any problem. China has 1.4 billion people and is emerging to a 1st world nation.
India is emerging and improving education, infrastructure, health (granted in a cluster****ing frankenstein kind of way),
and,
did this while experiencing a massive population growth.

So population growth is not, in itself, here nor there. If Africa had a declining population it still have (relatively speaking) the exact same problems. There would just be less corrupt agents and criminals causing same rates of starvation to less people.
But the same rates of death and starvation etc.

[Niamh.]

Yes I would. I'm aware that most of it probably won't reach the people it's intended for but if some does then it's better than nothing. You can't just give up on these people and let them die. I think it's awful that it's their own governments that's keeping them in this situation and have been allowed to do so for so long.

[MTVN]

We don't really help that much tbf, isn't it about time we cancelled the Third World Debt?

[Vicky.]

I dont really understand much about politics and that I'll be honest But on the news yesterday I caught something about america increasing its debt instead of just 'defaulting'. Now this might sound like a ridiculous question to those who understand stuff like this...but can poor countries not just 'default'?

And if greece can just be given millions upon millions, why cant countries who need it more be given it?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I dont really understand much about politics and that I'll be honest But on the news yesterday I caught something about america increasing its debt instead of just 'defaulting'. Now this might sound like a ridiculous question to those who understand stuff like this...but can poor countries not just 'default'?

And if greece can just be given millions upon millions, why cant countries who need it more be given it?

I'm no expert on this kind of thing either but I presume Greece have been given so much help because they're part of the EU and share the currency, I think if they weren't helped out it would be very bad for both the EU and the currency

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I'm no expert on this kind of thing either but I presume Greece have been given so much help because they're part of the EU and share the currency, I think if they weren't helped out it would be very bad for both the EU and the currency

The defaulting thing though too :/

If america could have done it, why cant others? :S

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

The defaulting thing though too :/

If america could have done it, why cant others? :S

I'm not sure what the repercussions are if you default, presumably it wouldn't have been good for the American economy and currency. I'm not sure what effect it would have on a third world country though

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I'm not sure what the repercussions are if you default, presumably it wouldn't have been good for the American economy and currency. I'm not sure what effect it would have on a third world country though

I cant see it making things any worse tbh.

Then again it might not be possible for them to that. As I say, my knowledge on politics is pretty much non-existent

[MTVN]

America don't really need to default, the only reason people talked about it was because they have a maximum debt ceiling set to prevent the government borrowing too much money (we don't have on in the UK). They were going to exceed that as things were going which would have meant having to default in theory but it wouldn't have been necessary so now they're just going to raise the debt ceiling and cut spending to bring it back down and avoid defaulting. I think that's right anyway but anyone feel free to correct me

I'm not entirely sure why Third World countries can't just default, Mexico did it before, and so did Argentina, I suppose the people who have lent the money (a lot of it's by private firms, banks etc.) simply won't let them, a lot of countries have cancelled a lot of the debt but I guess they're not willing to completely cancel it

[Vicky.]

Well they are never realistically going to be able to pay it back, so to not let them default is just stupid IMO :/

[Redway]

Originally Posted by InOne

At the end of the day there is plenty going on with our own country. We have kids over here that are in poverty and I'd rather concentrate on that.

Not really. Africa suffers from starvation (East Africa, at least). At least help is easy to find in Britain. East Africa needs help the most.

I'd help them.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Redway

Not really. Africa suffers from starvation (East Africa, at least). At least help is easy to find in Britain. East Africa needs help the most.

I'd help them.

If help is easy to find then why is it happening? And why Africa? Why not help Indians in poverty? It's like deciding who is more worthy or something so I'd rather just help people in the UK in need first.