[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by jet

Oh I didn't realise this thread was only limited to the jury's perspective.

We're discussing capital punishment so how someone is found guilty of a crime in a court of law comes into the discussion. Obviously.

An emotional reaction to the loss of a loved one has bugger all to do with it. We'd all love to grab hold of whoever has hurt a loved one and punish them severely, but is that frame of mind really the one we should be in when making such huge decisions about whether to end a hell of a lot of lives?

Serious question, if all you have for me is rolled eyes don't bother.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by jet

Would you feel the same if they murdered the person you love most? Their life over for good, and your life probably ruined, and the person that killed them would get about 12 years, three good meals a day, counselling, learning new skills, sky TV, games and other distractions and then get out to carry on with their life which could last for many more years while your loved one lies rotting.
I think life should MEAN life, if CP isn't carried out.

You've tried this argument with me before, it didn't work then and it won't work now. You don't know my life and I don't need to cheapen my life experiences just to prove a point.

Like Marsh said, Juries aren't comprised of people with an emotional connection to a crime and this is a topic about the law so emotion should not come into it.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You've tried this argument with me before, it didn't work then and it won't work now. You don't know my life and I don't need to cheapen my life experiences just to prove a point.

Like Marsh said, Juries aren't comprised of people with an emotional connection to a crime and this is a topic about the law so emotion should not come into it.

Emotion shouldn't come into a topic about capital punishment?!!!
It isn't a topic just about the law, it's a topic about how we FEEL about the bringing back of CP. I seen nothing in the opening post that said the thread had to be viewed only from a point of view of the law.
Deflection is your speciality though, as always.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by jet

Emotion shouldn't come into a topic about capital punishment?!!!
It isn't a topic just about the law, it's a topic about how we FEEL about the bringing back of CP. I seen nothing in the opening post that said the thread had to be viewed only from a point of view of the law.
Deflection is your speciality though, as always.

It's not deflection.

Asking him how he'd feel about a loved one being murdered is completely irrelevant and isn't something that should come into the decision making process when it comes to capital punishment. That's just obvious.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by jet

Emotion shouldn't come into a topic about capital punishment?!!!
It isn't a topic just about the law, it's a topic about how we FEEL about the bringing back of CP. I seen nothing in the opening post that said the thread had to be viewed only from a point of view of the law.
Deflection is your speciality though, as always.

When we're talking about the court process and issues of Law then yes, I don't think emotion should come into it since our court system is dependant on logic and evidence and it's not logical to murder a murderer and think it's just or okay to commit an act you have condemned someone else for doing.

Death is death, it's nothingness, people don't suffer in death. They don't feel anything. I'd rather people face up to what they've done in prison and be made to live with the consequences of their choices.

As for the bolded line, I don't see the relevance, I think you are just trying to downplay my argument without actually arguing against anything I've said. I never said that the topic could only be discussed from a logical angle, just that I believe it shouldn't be. You have confused my opinion for me trying to state a fact and I forgive you for that.

Your last line is just a cheap shot that doesn't really make sense considering your entire argument against me is a deflection on my original post in favour of what is essentially emotional manipulation in which you are trying to force me to change my views based on a flawed emotional aspect instead of doing me the decency of arguing against what I've said from a logical perspective.

If you are going to insult me then there's nothing more to say, if you wish to continue this discussion like adults then go ahead.

[Tom4784]

Killing is the easy path and the easy path is rarely the right path.

It's easy to be bloodthirsty and fight fire with fire, it takes strength of character and a strong moral fibre to do what's right and capital punishment just isn't right.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

You can call it strength of character and moral fibre all you like if it makes you feel better, how boringly sanctimonious does that sound - others may call it self-indulgence and wallowing in one’s sense of self-righteousness.

Following the crowd and adopting the will of others so as to be seen as doing the right thing and fitting in is not strong it is weak.

A yes from me!

Fitting in?

Or simply, if we're punishing someone for committing murder it would be highly hypocritical and incongruous to then murder them and somehow convince yourself you're any better.

[Wizard.]

Originally Posted by Mariah_Carey

Fitting in?

Or simply, if we're punishing someone for committing murder it would be highly hypocritical and incongruous to then murder them and somehow convince yourself you're any better.

How is killing a murderer classed as “murder”? It’s called justice!

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Mariah Christmas

How is killing a murderer classed as “murder”? It’s called justice!

The murderer might have killed someone in retaliation for something they see as punishable, maybe even a murder they have also committed, and therefore call it "justice". Do you see how this works?

Murder is the premeditated killing of someone. How is it anything else?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Mariah_Carey

Fitting in?

Or simply, if we're punishing someone for committing murder it would be highly hypocritical and incongruous to then murder them and somehow convince yourself you're any better.

It’s different and it’s better. Being born human doesn’t make someone human in a way that counts. Some so-called humans are just animals.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

It’s different and it’s better. Being born human doesn’t make someone human in a way that counts. Some so-called humans are just animals.

In English?

[AnnieK]

Personally, I don't agree with capital punishment but what I do believe is prison should not be an easy time, 23 hour lock down, hard labour and no luxuries. Prison is not a deterrent any more and it should be

[Wizard.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Personally, I don't agree with capital punishment but what I do believe is prison should not be an easy time, 23 hour lock down, hard labour and no luxuries. Prison is not a deterrent any more and it should be

I agree but the UN and their human rights laws wouldn’t allow it.

[AnnieK]

Work in Swinton and from salford. Live south manchester now but will always be salfordian

[Wizard.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Work in Swinton and from salford. Live south manchester now but will always be salfordian

Oh I go Swinton quite a lot. I’m from down south but have lived here nearly 3 years.

[Kazanne]

Yes where it is proven beyond any doubt that the murder was premeditated .child killers most definitely.but I would much prefer LIFE in jail,but it rarely happens so I went for yes,IF murderers were given LIFE that would be better and make sure it's a hard life.

[_baileys_]

i am all for severe punishments prisons are too soft - there is no 'fear' of prison to criminals it is more of a holiday - i would bring back hard labour and dark ages style cells too PC & human rights should go out the window when you commit horrendous crimes

[Vicky.]

I would say life in prison is worse punishment than the death penatly tbh.

If I was given the choice, I would chose death. Without second thought.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I would say life in prison is worse punishment than the death penatly tbh.

If I was given the choice, I would chose death. Without second thought.

I find that people who think that prison is some sort of Hi-de-Hi holiday camp either have no experiences of prison, whether it's being sent to one, visiting one or knowing someone personally that's never been to one.

I've never been to prison but I know plenty that have and none of them think it's a holiday.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I find that people who think that prison is some sort of Hi-de-Hi holiday camp either have no experiences of prison, whether it's being sent to one, visiting one or knowing someone personally that's never been to one.

I've never been to prison but I know plenty that have and none of them think it's a holiday.

You can't presume to know what people know or don't tbh and you are normally the first to call people out on that. I don't think prison is a hi de hi holiday camp but o don't think its tough enough to act as a deterrent and yes I know people who have been in prison who say its an easy life. I also know plenty of prisoner officers who will confirm that too.

[Wizard.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

You can't presume to know what people know or don't tbh and you are normally the first to call people out on that. I don't think prison is a hi de hi holiday camp but o don't think its tough enough to act as a deterrent and yes I know people who have been in prison who say its an easy life. I also know plenty of prisoner officers who will confirm that too.

Yeah I have heard people from prison who go in and see it as free gym membership and come out looking like Dwayne Johnson although this is for more minor criminals who don't warrant the death penalty.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I find that people who think that prison is some sort of Hi-de-Hi holiday camp either have no experiences of prison, whether it's being sent to one, visiting one or knowing someone personally that's never been to one.

I've never been to prison but I know plenty that have and none of them think it's a holiday.

You know plenty of people who have been in prison?

really?

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

You can't presume to know what people know or don't tbh and you are normally the first to call people out on that. I don't think prison is a hi de hi holiday camp but o don't think its tough enough to act as a deterrent and yes I know people who have been in prison who say its an easy life. I also know plenty of prisoner officers who will confirm that too.

It's an observation and it's not the same as what happened earlier so I don't really see the relevance of the comparison here.

Originally Posted by Isaiah 7:14

You know plenty of people who have been in prison?

really?

I do, I live in a rough area.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's an observation and it's not the same as what happened earlier so I don't really see the relevance of the comparison here.



I do, I live in a rough area.

Don't quite understand this Dezzy, you said you know people who have been in prison who said its not a holiday camp, I said I know people who have and said its not hard. How is that comparison not relevant? Its a counter argument to yours so if my argument is not relevant then surely that negates yours? Not trying to be arsey here but not sure I understand what you mean

[Northern Monkey]

No,Too much to go wrong.
I am in favour of terrorists being shot on site though and life actually meaning life in prison.
That way,If someone is found to be wrongfully convicted it is reversible.