[user104658]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Cherie needs knocking down a peg or two but this is hardly the thread for it.

the fact that we independently chose to roast Cherie for no reason at the same time on the same thread.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm not saying she's thick I just think probably no less likely to be drawn into it than, let's say, your average Tibber. Not a smart one like you or me obviously but your basic ones like Cherie or LT.

Obviously she wouldn't go around saying properly dumb things like "****ty people support equally ****ty person. Next."

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

the fact that we independently chose to roast Cherie for no reason at the same time on the same thread.

We love a clique.

[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Cherie needs knocking down a peg or two but this is hardly the thread for it.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm not saying she's thick I just think probably no less likely to be drawn into it than, let's say, your average Tibber. Not a smart one like you or me obviously but your basic ones like Cherie or LT.

Obviously she wouldn't go around saying properly dumb things like "****ty people support equally ****ty person. Next."

Not soggy ground and Toy slapper having fun at my expense

[Black Dagger]

****ty people support equally ****ty person.

Next.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Black Dagger

****ty people support equally ****ty person.

Next.

Cherie needs knocking down a peg or two but this is hardly the thread for it.

[Ninastar]

I agree with niamh.

Also I’m not a big fan of those whole “you have a similar opinion to person X on this, so therefore you’re automatically a bigot/homophobe/terfs/racist etc” thing that the super left people tend to do. It does more damage than good

[Elliot]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

I agree with niamh.

Also I’m not a big fan of those whole “you have a similar opinion to person X on this, so therefore you’re automatically a bigot/homophobe/terfs/racist etc” thing that the super left people tend to do. It does more damage than good

Sorry people aren’t super nice and accepting of people trying to take away trans people’s and lgbtq+ peoples protections and rights?

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Elliot

Sorry people aren’t super nice and accepting of people trying to take away trans people’s and lgbtq+ peoples protections and rights?

It's not that she wants to take rights away from LGBT people, but she's prioritising female rights to single sex spaces.

When it comes down to it, females' rights to single sex spaces, and transwomen's rights to use female spaces are incompatible. She's a feminist, so of course she'd prioritise the former.

She's never shown any indication of wanting to take away other LGBT rights.

[Oliver_W]

It's interesting how people supporting JK come from all over the political spectrum, while hating on her for being a female-focused feminist seems to be a left wing thing.

[Elliot]

Yeah her essay was cited as a reference for a republican politician trying to oppose lgbtq+ protections for housing and employment. That’s really when you know you’re on the right side of history, when you become an ally to the anti lgbt right wing

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Elliot

Yeah her essay was cited as a reference for a republican politician trying to oppose lgbtq+ protections for housing and employment. That’s really when you know you’re on the right side of history, when you become an ally to the anti lgbt right wing

Anyone can cite anyone else, it doesn't mean the person being quoted agrees with everything the person using their words says

[Ammi]

...wonders what type of feminist I am..I don’t ‘hate on her’...and neither do many other people../left/right or centre...male to female are female as well and a part of equality in consideration and inclusion of female...

[bots]

i find it difficult to comprehend that thousands of people can physically hate someone and wish death on them from a single text snapshot on the web.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...wonders what type of feminist I am..I don’t ‘hate on her’...and neither do many other people../left/right or centre...male to female are female as well and a part of equality in consideration and inclusion of female...

Their sex is male, and always will be. That can't be changed. If your feminism includes male people, that's fine, but not all forms of it do

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Their sex is male, and always will be. That can't be changed. If your feminism includes male people, that's fine, but not all forms of it do

...honestly, Oliver...I don’t know what to say to you ...so forgive me, I’m going to say very little and not continue with any possible conversation that could have been had...the born gender is not what trans is...otherwise trans wouldn’t exist and any thoughts or views on it wouldn’t exist either...Harry Potter style, magic-ed away...but so far as the gender of males is concerned as well in the way you’re also referencing it...?...of course, feminism includes males because it supports equality of genders which I would hope that, that is something that male gendered people, strive for as well...I really would hope that, Oliver...I’ll leave it at that...

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...honestly, Oliver...I don’t know what to say to you ...so forgive me, I’m going to say very little and not continue with any possible conversation that could have been had...the born gender is not what trans is...otherwise trans wouldn’t exist and any thoughts or views on it wouldn’t exist either...Harry Potter style, magic-ed away...but so far as the gender of males is concerned as well in the way you’re also referencing it...?...of course, feminism includes males because it supports equality of genders which I would hope that, that is something that male gendered people, strive for as well...I really would hope that, Oliver...I’ll leave it at that...

I didn't bring gender into it at all, only biological sex. One can change the "gender role" in which they choose to live, and make an effort to look physically like the one they weren't born in. But biological sex is fixed.

You can treat transwomen as women, in fact you should, but when it comes to sex-based rights, there is a bit of a conflict with single sex spaces. Some women are happy to allow transwomen into their spaces, but some aren't. Both views are valid, but it hinges on if they want to uphold the rights of females or transwomen.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Elliot

Yeah her essay was cited as a reference for a republican politician trying to oppose lgbtq+ protections for housing and employment. That’s really when you know you’re on the right side of history, when you become an ally to the anti lgbt right wing

Anyone can cite any essay or article in whatever context they want to, it has absolutely NO bearing on the original piece nor on the author of that piece. It's this sort of confused anti-intellectualism that's causing half of the problem at the moment in all honesty. "A group that my group hates liked something that you wrote... you are ENEMY toot toot sound the horns alert the troops target acquired".

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Elliot

Yeah her essay was cited as a reference for a republican politician trying to oppose lgbtq+ protections for housing and employment. That’s really when you know you’re on the right side of history, when you become an ally to the anti lgbt right wing

Having her words taken out of context for dubious means does not make her their ally. That's just dumb.

[user104658]

To be fair, when we're talking gender identity that's where there really SHOULD be a distinction.

"Man"/"Woman" is a social gender term and thus open to interpretation; the idea that a man can become a woman is fine and certainly, the idea that gender roles are almost entirely social constructs seems quite likely.

"Male"/"Female" should be reserved as biological terminology because, otherwise, there IS no meaningful biological terminology and that presents a whole host of problems.

So a male can be a woman, but a male can't become female.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

To be fair, when we're talking gender identity that's where there really SHOULD be a distinction.

"Man"/"Woman" is a social gender term and thus open to interpretation; the idea that a man can become a woman is fine and certainly, the idea that gender roles are almost entirely social constructs seems quite likely.

"Male"/"Female" should be reserved as biological terminology because, others ie, there IS no meaningful biological terminology and that presents a whole host of problems.

So a male can be a woman, but a male can't become female.

South Park has worked this into their series storyline too, remember

Mr Garrison who had become Mrs Garrison

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

South Park has worked this into their series storyline too, remember

Mr Garrison who had become Mrs Garrison

forgot all about that! Kyle's dad became a dolphin, and Kyle (or Stan?) had a race change!

[ChristmasNeeve]

Oh and to add (this is a big spoiler so don't open if you do ever plan on reading the book)

Spoiler:

The actual killer was a woman anyway

[UserSince2005]

shes a disgrace

[Ammi]

...just to add because I’m not sure if it’s been posted before ...but this seems to be the article that JK was accused of mocking with the tweet...

‘People who menstruate.’ I’m sure there used to be a word for those people. Someone help me out. Wumben? Wimpund? Woomud?

...all through the article it refers to girls, women, and gender non-binary persons who menstruate...so all inclusive...?..it doesn’t exclude ‘woman’ or change ‘woman’ in any way...so I am quite confused by her initial tweet that this seems to have sparked from...because it seems quite defensive and I'm not sure why it would be...and then this whole thing with the reaction to that and to her has escalated into something quite ugly...anyways, the article...which is being inclusive of ‘all menstruating’...because it’s specific to attention through the pandemic to providing sanitary care and giving attention to birth control etc ...when clinics that had usually provided for, had become closed through an extraordinary situation across the world...

...this was at the beginning of the pandemic quarantines and closures etc and has some great points...


https://www.devex.com/news/sponsored...nstruate-97312

[Ammi]

...I guess that what could be said about JK is that she was clumsy in addressing concerns that she had and things that she wanted to say... But we’ve had enough discussions on the forum to know that her concerns are something felt by many women and their basis has no ‘phobic’ foundation...these concerns have to be voiced, I mean that’s always the starting point and what JK was attempting...?....and that things can’t ever and shouldn’t ever be silenced or cancelled or whatever because it will only become deeper and deeper so these difficult conversations have to be opened up....JK has tried to do that because maybe she thought that she would be a good person to do it, as an ally of LGBT etc...? ...but her conversation has been rejected ...at some point though, if the conversation isn't opened up in a non hostile way and without all of the ugliness that it’s brought atm...then two groups in society will just remain feeling ‘vulnerable and under threat’ and that will only cause to regress and prevent any progressiveness for either group...