[arista]

No Worship or Child here


Nothing is Black or White.

But there is No God.

[Wildcat!]

Arista is a Robot. YOure wasting your time. HE doent really have any argument, and is incapable of analysing another posters arguments. HE just has a few cliche statements, that he posts everytime these subjects come up. Check his background, you wil see, its really mo use, if you want to have a well thought out, intelligent debate. Just come up with some cliches, and yall can go back and forth.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Wildcat!

Arista is a Robot. YOure wasting your time. HE doent really have any argument, and is incapable of analysing another posters arguments. HE just has a few cliche statements, that he posts everytime these subjects come up. Check his background, you wil see, its really mo use, if you want to have a well thought out, intelligent debate. Just come up with some cliches, and yall can go back and forth.

Utter Bollocks.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Wildcat!

Arista is a Robot. YOure wasting your time. HE doent really have any argument, and is incapable of analysing another posters arguments. HE just has a few cliche statements, that he posts everytime these subjects come up. Check his background, you wil see, its really mo use, if you want to have a well thought out, intelligent debate. Just come up with some cliches, and yall can go back and forth.

LOL, bang on the money. I pity the fool .

I guess some people jumped off the evolution train early. Life in the city.

[InOne]

Good you people are not deluded. Anyone who believes is god is deluded lol

[Crimson Dynamo]

Why is it when there is a debate about the nature of God those who say there is no God resort to insults in either their first or second posts (and subsequent posts)? ie fool, deluded and so forth..

It always suggests the same thing, poor knowledge of the subject matter and a lack of thought about what knowledge is available to them.

It is like playing football with your laces tied together!

[InOne]

Deluded is not an insult lol Just a fact...

[NettoSuperstar!]

Yeh same old unbalanced arguments I see. My question is if some guy finishes his shift at the taxi firm and then goes home and cooks dinner for the homeless in his area because of his devotion to Jesus...are you gonna call this guy a poor deluded fool? Well if yer are Im glad there are poor deluded fools about in this world

[InOne]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

Yeh same old unbalanced arguments I see. My question is if some guy finishes his shift at the taxi firm and then goes home and cooks dinner for the homeless in his area because of his devotion to Jesus...are you gonna call this guy a poor deluded fool? Well if yer are Im glad there are poor deluded fools about in this world

So he has to do it in the name of Jesus? Not in kindness? Try again Netto. Bye.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by InOne

So he has to do it in the name of Jesus? Not in kindness? Try again Netto. Bye.

Im talking about real people here who have been inspired by the teachings of Jesus and the Bible I saw him on TV the other week. You have the cheek to call that man deluded for his beliefs, shame on you.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

Im talking about real people here who have been inspired by the teachings of Jesus and the Bible I saw him on TV the other week. You have the cheek to call that man deluded for his beliefs, shame on you.

Netto, basically all you seem to be bothered about is getting one over on me. You do not actually care. Should not take the name of some Rabbi who lived 2000 years ago to feed the poor.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by InOne

Netto, basically all you seem to be bothered about is getting one over on me. You do not actually care. Should not take the name of some Rabbi who lived 2000 years ago to feed the poor.

What the hell does it matter to you why he does it? And I think you'll find Ive always argued the same points time and time again since I joined TIBB...you are but one of a long line of ignoramuses

[Stu]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

Im talking about real people here who have been inspired by the teachings of Jesus and the Bible I saw him on TV the other week. You have the cheek to call that man deluded for his beliefs, shame on you.

You don't need an excuse to be nice to people. His great works do not disprove the fact that the Bible is not factually accurate. There is no room for debate on that, it is simply a fact.

This is like Christians who say ''where do atheists get there morals from?''. So your telling me if it were not for the Bible you would be happy to kill?

One thing the major world religions do get right is ''treat others as you would like them to treat you''. The golden rule. Most of us are born with a natural sense of this.

Also, I provided numerous arguments LeatherTrumpet might or might not like to tackle. It's a shame he lets his religion down by resorting to abstract point dodging.



Here are some points in relation to using the Bible as a source for litetral truth :



* The Bible is a hodepodge collection of oral history, poetry, legend, myth, geneology, prophesy and visions, some of which date back to nomadic tribes in the Middle East. The problem with oral histories is that they change over time, and there is no way to verify what the original version of any of the accounts in the work might have looked like.

* The oral histories that were eventually included in the Bible were written down by different groups of people over centuries, and copied by hand numerous times, introducing changes and inaccuracies in the process as with any text that is copied (witness the variations in Shakespeare's folios).

* Numerous versions of chapters that have been included in the Bible by various groups (Jews, Gnostics and Christians) exist, and arbitrary decisions have been made as to which ones to include in what is accepted as the modern Christian version of the Bible. Chapters that have at one time or another been included and then removed from the Bible are called the Apocryopha. Some of these, most notably what are believed to be Gnostic texts, differ radically from the currently accepted version of the Bible.

* Both the Old Testament and the New have numerous internal contradictions that render any attempt to deem words of the Bible literally true impossible. For example, there are two different accounts of creation in the Old Testament and major contradictions among accounts of the life of Jesus in the New Testament.

* Linguistic and textual analysis of the Bible has demonstrated that some chapters have elisions or additions made by different authors, making a determination of the 'original' or 'true' version of the Bible problematic.

* There is ample evidence that some elisions and additions to some chapters were made for political reasons, or to express a religious viewpoint that differed from that held by the original author of the chapter.

* Historical sources show that the New Testament is factually inaccurate on matters including the reign of Herod and the Roman census.


And here are some of the many acts forbidden in this moral scripture. I doubt there is a man on the face of the earth who follows the Bible word for word. You cant. It's contradictory.


* Consuming blood, blood in meat is not exempt. (Genesis 9:4)
* Performing any work on the sabbath.(Exodus 20:10)
* Cooking a goat in its mothers milk.(Exodus 23:19)
* Eating fat.(Leviticus 3:17)
* The consumption of pork.(Leviticus 11:7-8)
* Eating a fellowship offering more than three days old.(Leviticus 19:5-8)
* Bestiality.(Leviticus 19:19)
* Planting more then one kind of seed in a field.(Leviticus 19:19)
* Wearing clothing woven of more then one kind of cloth.(Leviticus 19:19)
* Cutting the hair on the sides of your head(Leviticus 19:27)
* Tattoos.(Leviticus 19:28)
* Consulting a psychic or spiritualist.(Leviticus 19:31)
* Being a psychic or spiritualist, punishable by death.(Leviticus 20:27)
* Touching the dead carcass of a pig.(Deuteronomy 14:8)
* Eating aquatic creatures lacking fins or scales.(Deuteronomy 14:9-10)
* Transvestism.(Deuteronomy 22:5)
* Consuming the meat of strangled animals.(Acts 15:28-29)
* For women, speaking in church.(1 Corinthians 14:34-35)
* If you are a slave, disobedience.(Ephesians 6:5)


Have fun, kids!

[InOne]

Originally Posted by ProbeEight

You don't need an excuse to be nice to people. His great works do not disprove the fact that the Bible is not factually accurate. There is no room for debate on that, it is simply a fact.

This is like Christians who say ''where do atheists get there morals from?''. So your telling me if it were not for the Bible you would be happy to kill?

One thing the major world religions do get right is ''treat others as you would like them to treat you''. The golden rule. Most of us are born with a natural sense of this.

Also, I provided numerous arguments LeatherTrumpet might or might not like to tackle. It's a shame he lets his religion down by resorting to abstract point dodging.



Here are some points in relation to using the Bible as a source for litetral truth :



* The Bible is a hodepodge collection of oral history, poetry, legend, myth, geneology, prophesy and visions, some of which date back to nomadic tribes in the Middle East. The problem with oral histories is that they change over time, and there is no way to verify what the original version of any of the accounts in the work might have looked like.

* The oral histories that were eventually included in the Bible were written down by different groups of people over centuries, and copied by hand numerous times, introducing changes and inaccuracies in the process as with any text that is copied (witness the variations in Shakespeare's folios).

* Numerous versions of chapters that have been included in the Bible by various groups (Jews, Gnostics and Christians) exist, and arbitrary decisions have been made as to which ones to include in what is accepted as the modern Christian version of the Bible. Chapters that have at one time or another been included and then removed from the Bible are called the Apocryopha. Some of these, most notably what are believed to be Gnostic texts, differ radically from the currently accepted version of the Bible.

* Both the Old Testament and the New have numerous internal contradictions that render any attempt to deem words of the Bible literally true impossible. For example, there are two different accounts of creation in the Old Testament and major contradictions among accounts of the life of Jesus in the New Testament.

* Linguistic and textual analysis of the Bible has demonstrated that some chapters have elisions or additions made by different authors, making a determination of the 'original' or 'true' version of the Bible problematic.

* There is ample evidence that some elisions and additions to some chapters were made for political reasons, or to express a religious viewpoint that differed from that held by the original author of the chapter.

* Historical sources show that the New Testament is factually inaccurate on matters including the reign of Herod and the Roman census.


And here are some of the many acts forbidden in this moral scripture. I doubt there is a man on the face of the earth who follows the Bible word for word. You cant. It's contradictory.


* Consuming blood, blood in meat is not exempt. (Genesis 9:4)
* Performing any work on the sabbath.(Exodus 20:10)
* Cooking a goat in its mothers milk.(Exodus 23:19)
* Eating fat.(Leviticus 3:17)
* The consumption of pork.(Leviticus 11:7-8)
* Eating a fellowship offering more than three days old.(Leviticus 19:5-8)
* Bestiality.(Leviticus 19:19)
* Planting more then one kind of seed in a field.(Leviticus 19:19)
* Wearing clothing woven of more then one kind of cloth.(Leviticus 19:19)
* Cutting the hair on the sides of your head(Leviticus 19:27)
* Tattoos.(Leviticus 19:28)
* Consulting a psychic or spiritualist.(Leviticus 19:31)
* Being a psychic or spiritualist, punishable by death.(Leviticus 20:27)
* Touching the dead carcass of a pig.(Deuteronomy 14:8)
* Eating aquatic creatures lacking fins or scales.(Deuteronomy 14:9-10)
* Transvestism.(Deuteronomy 22:5)
* Consuming the meat of strangled animals.(Acts 15:28-29)
* For women, speaking in church.(1 Corinthians 14:34-35)
* If you are a slave, disobedience.(Ephesians 6:5)


Have fun, kids!

Get them told! Nice post.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Right ok so no rational argument then lol

[InOne]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

Right ok so no rational argument then lol

Don't think you could handle it I'm not talking about Religious people, i'm talking about the Religion.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by InOne

Don't think you could handle it I'm not talking about Religious people, i'm talking about the Religion.

Well the religion came about for political reasons. Jesus was a Jew like Probeeight said. I just think people like Jesus were good men trying to do good and most Christians follow that train of thought and arent fanatical about it and while there may or may not be a god if theyre doing good it doesnt matter does it? And some are fanatical irrational and misinterpret and twist the bible for their own ends just like some Muslims do

[InOne]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

Well the religion came about for political reasons. Jesus was a Jew like Probeeight said. I just think people like Jesus were good men trying to do good and most Christians follow that train of thought and arent fanatical about it and while there may or may not be a god if theyre doing good it doesnt matter does it? And some are fanatical irrational and misinterpret and twist the bible for their own ends just like some Muslims do

Jesus never intended to start another Religion.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by InOne

Jesus never intended to start another Religion.

Mark 16:15 (New International Version)

15: He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by InOne

Jesus never intended to start another Religion.

No he was spreading the word of his faith...the Jewish one

[Stu]

And just because I am in the mood, for all the ladies out there...

* Corinthians, 14:34-35: "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

* Exodus 21:7-8: And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do. If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her."

* Genesis 3:16: "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."

* Genesis 19:8 "Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes"

* Leviticus 19:20: "And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free."

* Leviticus 27:3-7: "And thy estimation shall be of the male from twenty years old even unto sixty years old, even thy estimation shall be fifty shekels of silver... And if it be a female, then thy estimation shall be thirty shekels. And if it be from five years old even unto twenty years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male twenty shekels, and for the female ten shekels. And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver. And if it be from sixty years old and above; if it be a male, then thy estimation shall be fifteen shekels, and for the female ten shekels."

* Deuteronomy 21:11-14: And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife. Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails. And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife. And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will..."

* Genesis 25:1 "Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah." [Only problem is that Abraham already had a wife (Sarah), and an abandoned concubine (Hagar).]

* 26:34, 29:29 "And Esau was forty years old when he took to wife Judith the daughter of Beeri the Hittite, and Bashemath the daughter of Elon the Hittite. ... Then went Esau unto Ishmael, and took unto the wives which he had Mahalath the daughter of Ishmael Abraham's son, the sister of Nebajoth, to be his wife."

* Genesis 32:22: "And he rose up that night, and took his two wives, and his two womenservants, "

* Genesis 36:6: "And Esau took his wives...."

[MiuMiu]

Originally Posted by ProbeEight

And just because I am in the mood, for all the ladies out there...

* Corinthians, 14:34-35: "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

* Exodus 21:7-8: And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do. If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her."

* Genesis 3:16: "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."

* Genesis 19:8 "Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes"

* Leviticus 19:20: "And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free."

* Leviticus 27:3-7: "And thy estimation shall be of the male from twenty years old even unto sixty years old, even thy estimation shall be fifty shekels of silver... And if it be a female, then thy estimation shall be thirty shekels. And if it be from five years old even unto twenty years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male twenty shekels, and for the female ten shekels. And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver. And if it be from sixty years old and above; if it be a male, then thy estimation shall be fifteen shekels, and for the female ten shekels."

* Deuteronomy 21:11-14: And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife. Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails. And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife. And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will..."

* Genesis 25:1 "Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah." [Only problem is that Abraham already had a wife (Sarah), and an abandoned concubine (Hagar).]

* 26:34, 29:29 "And Esau was forty years old when he took to wife Judith the daughter of Beeri the Hittite, and Bashemath the daughter of Elon the Hittite. ... Then went Esau unto Ishmael, and took unto the wives which he had Mahalath the daughter of Ishmael Abraham's son, the sister of Nebajoth, to be his wife."

* Genesis 32:22: "And he rose up that night, and took his two wives, and his two womenservants, "

* Genesis 36:6: "And Esau took his wives...."

What an awesome post.


But don't forget about
"give not thy strength unto women
nor thy ways to that which destroyeth kings"
Proverbs 31:3

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by MiuMiu

What an awesome post.


But don't forget about
"give not thy strength unto women
nor thy ways to that which destroyeth kings"
Proverbs 31:3

It is not an "awesome" (are you American?) post it is a person who does not understand the Bible, the OT or the NT.

Look at the role of women in the NT. They discovered Jesus had risen from the dead, they founded churches (Lydia) they gave birth to the messiah.

All of the above was incredible to first century life and rather illustrates that if people had wanted to bend truth and convert people through decit they certainly would not have used women in prominent roles.

To quote out of context is to remove a passage from its surrounding matter in such a way as to distort its meaning. The context in which a passage occurs always contributes to its meaning, and the shorter the passage the larger the contribution. For this reason, the quoter must always be careful to quote enough of the context not to misrepresent the meaning of the quote. Of course, in some sense, all quotation is out of context, but by a "contextomy", I refer only to those quotes whose meaning is changed by a loss of context. The fallacy of Quoting Out of Context is committed when a contextomy is offered as evidence in an argument....

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

It is not an "awesome" (are you American?) post it is a person who does not understand the Bible, the OT or the NT.

Look at the role of women in the NT. They discovered Jesus had risen from the dead, they founded churches (Lydia) they gave birth to the messiah.

All of the above was incredible to first century life and rather illustrates that if people had wanted to bend truth and convert people through decit they certainly would not have used women in prominent roles.

To quote out of context is to remove a passage from its surrounding matter in such a way as to distort its meaning. The context in which a passage occurs always contributes to its meaning, and the shorter the passage the larger the contribution. For this reason, the quoter must always be careful to quote enough of the context not to misrepresent the meaning of the quote. Of course, in some sense, all quotation is out of context, but by a "contextomy", I refer only to those quotes whose meaning is changed by a loss of context. The fallacy of Quoting Out of Context is committed when a contextomy is offered as evidence in an argument....

It was a very good post, insulting the words someone uses however isn't good posting in my opinion.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Wildcat!

Thats not the religion though. did you even read my post? Thast some scriptures, that people claim, are from the prophet mohammed. BUt they are not from the Kuran. MY point is, this could be just something someone claimed, he heard the prophet MOhammed say. Which is not necessarily true.
I dont refute anything that says in the book. But its very poetic. And when I dont understand something, I will ask people to explain, but will only accept it, i it makes sense to me. I wont accept anything that doesnt make sense in my mind. And me believing in god, does not mean I dont need the help of the book. ANd it gives me structure, and guidance.

Its like saying, why o you listen to your parents, and follow what they say? Why not just do whatever pleases you? Or why do you believe teachers, and their teachings? ITs a silly attitude to have imo. BUt to each their own.

Did you even read my post? I was not talking about the Koran. Whats the title of this thread, again? I was merely saying that there are so many different interpretations of The Bible that how do people know there interpretation is right? Why bother at all?

To be honest I cant really follow much of what you are saying so I will leave it at that. You seem to be talking about Islam, which I don't know anything about admittedly .

I do, however, know a lot about the Bible. LeatherTrumpet's accusation that I don't comes from his specific interpretation of the Bible. Again showing how fallacious it is. He says it is all about context. That is a blanket argument that could be applied to absolutely anything in the Bible.

I suppose when Jesus talks about Adam & Eve he did not really believe in creationism, he was just speaking in the context of a parable? After all, like I have already said, and which no Christian on this forum has been able to respond to thus far : The PROOF that the world is more than 4,000 years old and Jesus himself, YOUR messiah, being a creationist seem utterly incompatible with one another. He spoke of Adam & Eve. He spoke of original sin. He spoke of Noah, the ark and the flood that covered the entire planet.

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

It was a very good post, insulting the words someone uses however isn't good posting in my opinion.

Repped. Who knows. His church might have banned the use of the word 'awesome'.