[Kizzy]

pantsgate was not entertainment...it was akward uncomfortable viewing...as were all such issues lets not kid ourselves.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by kizzy

pantsgate was not entertainment...it was akward uncomfortable viewing...as were all such issues lets not kid ourselves.

It was amazing TV, and the resulting discussions ever since have proved that. You wouldn't see those type of discussions if Gareth had eaten a biscuit. Events like that are crucial and beneficial to the success of the show, it gets people talking and generates interesting. If there's nothing to discuss, there's no show.

[Kizzy]

the little figure is uncalled for as you post suggests you are lucid, i did not feel that any aspect of those senarios were 'amazing' more 'tragic' to be fair. If housemates cannot gemerate interest without abusing each other its time to pull the plug...i dont want to see how far some celeb will go for 2 mins of airtime.. Am i watching the wrong show? is this how it it and ever will be now?..

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by kizzy

the little figure is uncalled for as you post suggests you are lucid, i did not feel that any aspect of those senarios were 'amazing' more 'tragic' to be fair. If housemates cannot gemerate interest without abusing each other its time to pull the plug...i dont want to see how far some celeb will go for 2 mins of airtime.. Am i watching the wrong show? is this how it it and ever will be now?..

What else is there to be discussed? In every series almost every discussion has centred around an argument, romance (or fauxmance), ongoing feud or mishaps during a party. It's very difficult to discuss in depth something like a task or housemates eating dinner...there's not much to say. It's essential that the housemates contribute something of interest in order for everyone to talk about it. If they don't, then of course there's nothing to discuss and the series is rendered boring, nobody watches and then...ta-da, our beloved Big Brother is gone.

If you were living in there, you'd want there to be peace. But none of us are, and as viewers we want to see storylines develop, and that includes arguments, feuds, bitchiness etc. That way we all have something to talk about on forums like these. If we don't, well...then the show fails, that's the bottom line of it really.

[Kizzy]

it may be, unless in this case it was not that simple was it?...the clash of personalities is what makes BB fun and interesting...However , if you have one HM who dislikes the other and it not be accepted makes for the uncomfortable situation we witnessed. I feel he gave her many chances to accept he was just another HM but she was equally as determined there was something more...#embarrassing

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by kizzy

it may be, unless in this case it was not that simple was it?...the clash of personalities is what makes BB fun and interesting...However , if you have one HM who dislikes the other and it not be accepted makes for the uncomfortable situation we witnessed. I feel he gave her many chances to accept he was just another HM but she was equally as determined there was something more...#embarrassing

...but that's brilliant TV. Because as a result, everyone starts debating whether she fancies him, who's in the right, who's in the wrong etc. It's all part of the fun. The real problem is when people let whichever side they take in a certain argument dictate which housemates they are going to like, that's just foolish. For example, during the Denise/twins saga, I was on the twins side, as I'm of the belief that you do not pull someone's trousers down. However, if it weren't for Denise, the best argument of the series would not have occurred, and as such, there would not have been so many discussions about it. Therefore I don't let the fact that I sided with the twins on this particular issue make me dislike Denise, or want her to be evicted, as that would just be stupid. And sadly, a lot of people seem to do this instead of realising that even though you may not agree with someone's actions...their actions are beneficial to the success of the show and how entertaining it is.

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by Jack_

...but that's brilliant TV. Because as a result, everyone starts debating whether she fancies him, who's in the right, who's in the wrong etc. It's all part of the fun. The real problem is when people let whichever side they take in a certain argument dictate which housemates they are going to like, that's just foolish. For example, during the Denise/twins saga, I was on the twins side, as I'm of the belief that you do not pull someone's trousers down. However, if it weren't for Denise, the best argument of the series would not have occurred, and as such, there would not have been so many discussions about it. Therefore I don't let the fact that I sided with the twins on this particular issue make me dislike Denise, or want her to be evicted, as that would just be stupid. And sadly, a lot of people seem to do this instead of realising that even though you may not agree with someone's actions...their actions are beneficial to the success of the show and how entertaining it is.

But is it good tv if we watch the demise of one person who cannot accept the responsiblity of growing older? I am all for a few rows etc. but this was cringeworthy and not acceptable. BB should watch more carefully who they put in the house, look what happened to Shree, he tried to commit suicide after the house finished. Not good at all, what happened with Anthony and the other one who constantly harassed him, cringeworthy stuff. Not good tv.

We need a balance of nominations, tasks, fallouts but not to watch someone deteriorate because she isnt accepted by one HM whom she was harassing.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

when ARE you going to learn that what you think, what you feel, what you believe is your own view, and not fact. I'll certainly dispute from here to hell and back that pulling down someones trousers was as far removed from being classed as 'fantastic entertainment', as you put it. It is churlish, childish and pathetic behaviour - not fantastic entertaiment - that's my view and I'm intelligent and mature enough to realise that my view in this, is not fact.

Try to avoid getting personal Jack - we are not discussing fms here - we are discussing the show and the housemates - feel free to criticise them, but save your petty insults / critique /criticism for that direction and not towards me.

But it isn't my view, it's not an opinion and it almost certainly is fact. At the end of the day, the incident created hundreds and hundreds of discussion threads on here, DS, many other forums, social networking sites and in real life. Now to a show like Big Brother do you realise how beneficial and essential it is to have talking points? Just try to comprehend for a second what it would be like if there were no incidents to discuss, no arguments, no feuds, nothing. Absolutely nothing. Where would the threads come from? How would shows like Bit On The Side survive? How would the entire show survive? And the answer? It wouldn't. Because the entire show relies on interesting, entertaining, controversial housemates to create interesting discussion points. Without them, the show fails. They are absolutely crucial to the success of a show like Big Brother. Crucial. This is one hundred percent not a case of 'this is your opinion', and sadly, a lot of people don't realise this and fail to think about it logically. Whilst you may not agree with the actions that Denise carried out, or perhaps other housemates - the consequences of their actions led to fantastic TV and debates, all of which are still continuing to this day. See...even this thread is an example. We wouldn't be having this discussion now if it weren't for Denise, Michael and even the twins and Nicola. By virtue of you (or anyone else) even talking about Denise, or any of the other housemates involved in any kind of interesting action in the house, you have or are being entertained by them. That's how it works. It is not an opinion, it is a fact.

Originally Posted by Jules2

She was running him down constantly she couldnt let it go, she couldnt get over the fact that he didnt like her......She has to be liked by everyone to allow her to cope with life.

No she wasn't...she didn't mention him until asked by Emma. What is she supposed to do, ignore her?

Originally Posted by Jules2

So it was ok for her to bait him? Had she acted in a ladylike manner (lol) she could have proven herself a greater person than him instead of which she let herself down big time. It was her favourite pastime baiting Michael and then going around in the house saying how unreasonable he was. He even asked the help of BB with her. Had he been harassing her he would have been thrown out and booed, look at what happened to Shree, but thereagain he was a male. Had he pulled someones trousers down, there would have been an uproar. One of the Jedward twins was pulled up because he twanged someones bikin bottom. He shouldnt have done it and neither should Denise have done so. Many took her side though as they are doing now with the BOTS thing. BB know what they are doing, they should have perhaps realised how fragile Denise appeard to be and not to have kept on bringing up the fact of Michael. Michael managed not to go into to much detail although his words said it all. She went on and on with her poor little me act.

Michael was the winner where BOTS was concerned, her face looked evil at one stage. Her past was catching up with her. Sad tbh I hope she manages to overcome it all and find peace within herself without having to sell herself so much.

We can all have our own opinions on the incident when looking at it from a realistic, moralistic perspective, but the fact of the matter is it was great TV.

And I'm sorry, but at no point had Denise 'baited' Michael on the night of the final during her Bit On The Side interview. It all started when Michael started pretending to snore, something which in a large majority of places around the world is considered poor manners and very rude. Let's be honest, as I have already mentioned, if you were to do that in a working environment or a lecture you would be thrown out with no hesitation. There are no excuses for it.

Originally Posted by Jules2

But is it good tv if we watch the demise of one person who cannot accept the responsiblity of growing older? I am all for a few rows etc. but this was cringeworthy and not acceptable. BB should watch more carefully who they put in the house, look what happened to Shree, he tried to commit suicide after the house finished. Not good at all, what happened with Anthony and the other one who constantly harassed him, cringeworthy stuff. Not good tv.

We need a balance of nominations, tasks, fallouts but not to watch someone deteriorate because she isnt accepted by one HM whom she was harassing.

Yes. Yes it is, I'm afraid. Call me sadistic, but whilst I did feel sorry for Denise at times (and some of the other housemates), when you look at it from a birds eye perspective (as everyone who watches Big Brother should do), the resulting actions led to days and days of great debate and IMO, unmissable, interesting television. It is these sorts of incidents that benefit the show and give us all something to talk about. And as such, we should all thank Michael, Denise, the twins and Nicola for their great contributions to what was a fantastic series.

[Ammi]

Michael's 'input' to Denise's interview has provided discussions and debates therefore it is also 'entertainment' as it set's the interview apart from any other winner interview.....it can't be one without the other. If Denise wasn't 'rude' when she attempted to jab Michael in the house and she wasn't 'rude' or in BB's words 'inappropriate' when she pulled down Karissa's clothing, if it simply provided entertainment, or more, I think controversy, which it did...no matter on what your opinion are...the same has to apply over the interview. I'm still not sure how other's have seen what I haven't (snoring) as it was off camera and I've replayed it, but whatever it was, it should only be described as rude if the same is fairly applied to Denise...imo, at worst I would say controversial....and with any controversial behaviour, as Denise is guilty of also...people are naturally going to have strong opinions

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by Jack_

But it isn't my view, it's not an opinion and it almost certainly is fact. At the end of the day, the incident created hundreds and hundreds of discussion threads on here, DS, many other forums, social networking sites and in real life. Now to a show like Big Brother do you realise how beneficial and essential it is to have talking points? Just try to comprehend for a second what it would be like if there were no incidents to discuss, no arguments, no feuds, nothing. Absolutely nothing. Where would the threads come from? How would shows like Bit On The Side survive? How would the entire show survive? And the answer? It wouldn't. Because the entire show relies on interesting, entertaining, controversial housemates to create interesting discussion points. Without them, the show fails. They are absolutely crucial to the success of a show like Big Brother. Crucial. This is one hundred percent not a case of 'this is your opinion', and sadly, a lot of people don't realise this and fail to think about it logically. Whilst you may not agree with the actions that Denise carried out, or perhaps other housemates - the consequences of their actions led to fantastic TV and debates, all of which are still continuing to this day. See...even this thread is an example. We wouldn't be having this discussion now if it weren't for Denise, Michael and even the twins and Nicola. By virtue of you (or anyone else) even talking about Denise, or any of the other housemates involved in any kind of interesting action in the house, you have or are being entertained by them. That's how it works. It is not an opinion, it is a fact.



No she wasn't...she didn't mention him until asked by Emma. What is she supposed to do, ignore her?



We can all have our own opinions on the incident when looking at it from a realistic, moralistic perspective, but the fact of the matter is it was great TV.

And I'm sorry, but at no point had Denise 'baited' Michael on the night of the final during her Bit On The Side interview. It all started when Michael started pretending to snore, something which in a large majority of places around the world is considered poor manners and very rude. Let's be honest, as I have already mentioned, if you were to do that in a working environment or a lecture you would be thrown out with no hesitation. There are no excuses for it.



Yes. Yes it is, I'm afraid. Call me sadistic, but whilst I did feel sorry for Denise at times (and some of the other housemates), when you look at it from a birds eye perspective (as everyone who watches Big Brother should do), the resulting actions led to days and days of great debate and IMO, unmissable, interesting television. It is these sorts of incidents that benefit the show and give us all something to talk about. And as such, we should all thank Michael, Denise, the twins and Nicola for their great contributions to what was a fantastic series.

If we look at it properly we didnt hear or see him snore, he turned his face away from Denise and clicked his mouth, that wasnt a snore and tbh Denise was droning on and on and on and

I know what you are saying re good entertainment but I still do not like to see a person crumble, or perhaps she was acting? As Denise said though, if anything went wrong, she was only joking so......There arent a lot of good views about her on line but we are each entitled to our own opinion as we know.

I will stand by my ground and say Michael was not disrespectful to her in a nasty way (lol isnt that what she said and what Emma agreed that she was not being disrespectful by pulling the pants down, naturally though that is ok for Madam Denise ), maybe he was joking? I doubt whether many will accept that as it wasnt Denise, I personally think he was as bored with her droning as I was.

The presenters should have known better than to fuel the fire especially as Denise had had the news about someone spilling the beans to the Sunday papers, I bet she was fuming. Still I guess everything is ok for Denise.....Time will tell how she handles herself but whatever she will blame others for her demise if she cannot cope with her inner self and her demons.

[WozMan]

To me the whole Denise Michael thing started when she failed to respect his obvious habit of spending some alone time in the bedroom. Even then if she had just spoken to him respectfully and not badgered and harangued him with the same question over and over it would have been ok. She harrassed him about what he was doing in the diary room when it was obvious to me it was something he did NOT want to discuss with the housemates. The guy just wanted to be alone for a while and she could not comprehend this fact. To be honest she reminded me of Tashie: extremely needy and a bit of a mess

The incident at the final interview was rude in my opinion. Chatting over an interview on television would get you fired if not blacklisted as a production worker. However Denise was the one who trampled over Michael's boundries in the house first and he was continuing the dynamic which had been established between them.

On the circular argument in this thread:
Something I have come to realise is that personal rules of conduct vary greatly from family to family, culture to culture, group to group. What is outright rude to one group is acceptable and hilarious to another. It seems Michael's behaviour breaks Jack and Wayne's personal rules but not Pyramid's

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by WozMan

To me the whole Denise Michael thing started when she failed to respect his obvious habit of spending some alone time in the bedroom. Even then if she had just spoken to him respectfully and not badgered and harangued him with the same question over and over it would have been ok. She harrassed him about what he was doing in the diary room when it was obvious to me it was something he did NOT want to discuss with the housemates. The guy just wanted to be alone for a while and she could not comprehend this fact. To be honest she reminded me of Tashie: extremely needy and a bit of a mess

The incident at the final interview was rude in my opinion. Chatting over an interview on television would get you fired if not blacklisted as a production worker. However Denise was the one who trampled over Michael's boundries in the house first and he was continuing the dynamic which had been established between them.

On the circular argument in this thread:
Something I have come to realise is that personal rules of conduct vary greatly from family to family, culture to culture, group to group. What is outright rude to one group is acceptable and hilarious to another. It seems Michael's behaviour breaks Jack and Wayne's personal rules but not Pyramid's

Correct and the very reason for that, is precisely what you mentioned yourself which I have highlighted in red. She showed absolutely no respect for Michael - from early days in the house - therefore she shouldn't start moaning and 'effing off' when he treats her the way she felt it appropriate to treat him for weeks.

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Correct and the very reason for that, is precisely what you mentioned yourself which I have highlighted in red. She showed absolutely no respect for Michael - from early days in the house - therefore she shouldn't start moaning and 'effing off' when he treats her the way she felt it appropriate to treat him for weeks.

I still say it was a deflection from her own troubles, she has a habit of doing that. She droned on and on about how wonderful she was etc. etc. I kept on thinking oh Denise for goodness sake shut up. Emma let her go on, when Michael clicked his mouth he wasnt even looking at her but she was slagging him off as usual. I wouldnt have blamed him had he walked out.

[tonyface]

I think he was struggling to understand why she was so adored, versus the Denise that he had to put up with in the house, and got angry.....

[Ammi]

Based on the premise that questionable behaviour provides entertainment....Denise v Michael, Denise v twins, Denise v Nicola..I see how Denise won. Denise telling Michael to '**** off' in her interview seems to have provoked the most interest, therefore, Michael being the catalyst to that in whatever happened off camera, I think I can safely say the interview belonged to Michael. I wouldn't like to criticise him for being rude, when he was, after all, just entertaining....

[Angus]

Originally Posted by tonyface

I think he was struggling to understand why she was so adored, versus the Denise that he had to put up with in the house, and got angry.....

There's a lot of us struggling with that one

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by Angus

There's a lot of us struggling with that one

I dont think he even looked angry tbh, I have had a look at the clip over and over again. He was bored but Denise kept on looking over, there was quite a bit of commotion going on. She had the chair but did that give her the right to down Michael? Not one of the others came out really being viscious as she was, they had respect for themselves but Denise wanted to deflect the blame for all things onto him. The same as she says we are not worried about the story breaking, we are concentrating on Tim's birthday party? Mmmm so because it was his birthday does that mean she shouldnt take responsibility for her actions? Has she hypnotised him and a lot of the public?

[Suze]

Originally Posted by Jules2

I dont think he even looked angry tbh, I have had a look at the clip over and over again. He was bored but Denise kept on looking over, there was quite a bit of commotion going on. She had the chair but did that give her the right to down Michael? Not one of the others came out really being viscious as she was, they had respect for themselves but Denise wanted to deflect the blame for all things onto him. The same as she says we are not worried about the story breaking, we are concentrating on Tim's birthday party? Mmmm so because it was his birthday does that mean she shouldnt take responsibility for her actions? Has she hypnotised him and a lot of the public?

She may have won a Celeb version, but to be honest I don't really care as I doubt much will come of it than the usual mag deals etc; she would likely have got with or without winning. I don't watch Loose Women, and can easily avoid anything else she is in or on, and I don't buy rags and mags

I suppose one thing about all the other Celebs that took part is they can now watch back this CBB if they choose to and see how Denise manipulated them into believing Michael was the one in the wrong during that series re: her, when he wasn't. I expect a few of them will now feel rather silly being taken in by her.

[WozMan]

Pretending to snore in class will NOT automatically get you kicked out. I've done it in an opportune situation and even got a laugh out of the teacher!