[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

I'm not at all paranoid, a woman being raped is disgusting!
A woman crying rape after happily consenting is disgusting!

I don't seek to make women look bad and to make men look good.

I wasn't calling you paranoid, it was a contradictory set of things said to women.

[lime]

On Wednesday, Frank O’Donoghue QC, for Stuart Olding, gave an extensive analysis of the evidence relating to his client, listing more than 20 questions he said he would like to have asked the young woman at the centre of this trial.

“Why was she unable to resist, why did she not say ‘no’?” he asked.

“Why did she open her mouth – why didn’t she keep her mouth closed? Why didn’t she scream – the house was occupied. There were a lot of middle-class girls downstairs – they weren’t going to tolerate a rape or anything like that.


What an ignorant pig......so if there was any lower than whats considered "middle class girls" they would have been fine with rape.

Having being following this case I most definetely beleive her.

Olding didn't ask the girl for consent...he asked Jackson could he join in..

Blood on her trousers that was visable for taxi driver to see and blood on accused duvet...visably distressed leaving the house and in the taxi home infact in one of the messages between the accused she was described as being hysterical,

Seems she has good family and friends around her so hope they are keeping a watchfull eye over her..Some of the accused fans are no doubt going to shout abuse at her if she walks out in public again...Sadly it's probably best for her and family to leave Belfast

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

If a woman walks around with her arse cheeks showing and her tits hanging out on a night out, men will say excitedly look at that.

If women see the same woman, they would say look at that slapper.

Wtf are you even going on about now?

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Wtf are you even going on about now?

Calm down, I'm saying not all women are united when it comes to other women.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Calm down, I'm saying not all women are united when it comes to other women.

I still have no idea where that fits into this discussion

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I still have no idea where that fits into this discussion

It fits in how some women view other woman, for some the idea of a woman going off with two blokes she only just met is disgusting.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

It fits in how some women view other woman, for some the idea of a woman going off with two blokes she only just met is disgusting.

You posted some really off things in here tbh, I think I'll leave it at that.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

You posted some really off things in here tbh, I think I'll leave it at that.

I'm sorry but that's my opinion, I think you are taking it personally when it's just a discussion.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

I'm sorry but that's my opinion, I think you are taking it personally when it's just a discussion.

You're opinion is that you think she's disgusting for going back to paddy Jackson's house (not just with 2 men btw) or your opinion is that some women might not approve? If it's the latter then what point are you actually trying to make? You're saying some hypothetical women might not be on her side? Umm ok?

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

You're opinion is that you think she's disgusting for going back to paddy Jackson's house (not just with 2 men btw) or your opinion is that some women might not approve? If it's the latter then what point are you actually trying to make? You're saying some hypothetical women might not be on her side? Umm ok?

If you look at the start of the thread I called those men animals.
I have a mum three sisters a misses and many female friends so yes I know how they feel about going off with someone you just met.

Drive a car fast there is a good chance of getting a speeding ticket

Go off with strangers there is a good chance some thing bad will happen.

[Smithy]

Basically Niamh, the sheriff is blaming the victim

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Smithy

Basically Niamh, the sheriff is blaming the victim

Yeah looks about the size of it

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Smithy

Basically Niamh, the sheriff is blaming the victim

Thanks for you input smithy, I'm saying if my daughter went off with two men I would pissed of that she could be so irresponsible.

[user104658]

I don't know, there's a difference between victim blaming and pointing out the need for awareness of safety - which I think is what sheriff might ham-fistedly be trying to get at.

If someone is attacked, then the guilty party is the attacker. There's no question about that part. They are criminals with no respect for other humans, and fully deserve to be punished for that.

But aside from that it's important to recognise that those people are out there. They exist, and with the best will in the world, they will sadly always exist... There's no getting around that. And with that in mind, it IS important for people to be aware of risks and keep themselves safe. It IS important that young girls be wary of going home with strange men, it IS important to tell our sons that it's a bad idea to walk home through the roughest part of town at 2am. That's not about "blaming them" if they are attacked... Just about pointing out that the risks are very real.

Or, I suppose, remembering that just because something SHOULDN'T happen, doesn't mean it WON'T happen, and living life as if the world is as it should be (safe, respectful) instead of how it actually is (chaotic and sometimes ****ing scary) is ill advised.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah looks about the size of it

So would you be happy if your daughter went off with two men she had only just met?

[Tom4784]

Sheriff, you pretty much embody the reason why reports and conviction on rape are so low. Why would anyone want to come forward when they'll be met with countless people with attitudes like yours?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Sheriff, you pretty much embody the reason why reports and conviction on rape are so low. Why would anyone want to come forward when they'll be met with countless people with attitudes like yours?

If people are being mocking / aggressive, or suggesting the perpetrators don't deserve punishment for this reason, then I agree, but I also think it should be possible to point out risky behaviour whilst still sympathising with the victim. The problem otherwise is that you are implying that "this ISN'T risky" which makes others less likely to consider it a risk in future.

And again... It clearly IS a risk. It shouldn't be one, rapists shouldn't exist, but it is, and they do, and always will. Shouldn't happen doesn't = won't happen, or even is unlikely to happen.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I don't know, there's a difference between victim blaming and pointing out the need for awareness of safety - which I think is what sheriff might ham-fistedly be trying to get at.

If someone is attacked, then the guilty party is the attacker. There's no question about that part. They are criminals with no respect for other humans, and fully deserve to be punished for that.

But aside from that it's important to recognise that those people are out there. They exist, and with the best will in the world, they will sadly always exist... There's no getting around that. And with that in mind, it IS important for people to be aware of risks and keep themselves safe. It IS important that young girls be wary of going home with strange men, it IS important to tell our sons that it's a bad idea to walk home through the roughest part of town at 2am. That's not about "blaming them" if they are attacked... Just about pointing out that the risks are very real.

Or, I suppose, remembering that just because something SHOULDN'T happen, doesn't mean it WON'T happen, and living life as if the world is as it should be (safe, respectful) instead of how it actually is (chaotic and sometimes ****ing scary) is ill advised.

Of course but it just annoys me that rape or sexual assault seems to be the only crime where that's constantly pointed out after the fact and therefore comes across as blaming the victim

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

If people are being mocking / aggressive, or suggesting the perpetrators don't deserve punishment for this reason, then I agree, but I also think it should be possible to point out risky behaviour whilst still sympathising with the victim. The problem otherwise is that you are implying that "this ISN'T risky" which makes others less likely to consider it a risk in future.

And again... It clearly IS a risk. It shouldn't be one, rapists shouldn't exist, but it is, and they do, and always will. Shouldn't happen doesn't = won't happen, or even is unlikely to happen.

Thanks ts.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

So would you be happy if your daughter went off with two men she had only just met?

I'm not very comfortable speaking about my daughter in this context tbqh but it certainly wouldn't cross my mind in this situation because it would come across like I was blaming her instead of the rapist.

[Cherie]

I guess the issue here is that they weren’t “strangers” as such and at 19 she was maybe a bit starsruck, she didn’t travel back to the house on her own as other females were going as well, so in terms of risk it wasn’t up there wth going home on your own with two joe bloggs

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I'm not very comfortable speaking about my daughter in this context tbqh but it certainly wouldn't cross my mind in this situation because it would come across like I was blaming her instead of the rapist.

I guess the question is though (and yeah I hate imagining my own kids in these scenarios, too) not how would you react if something DID happen to them but... If nothing happened? Like you know they're home safe and sound and nothing bad happened, and then their friend is like "She went off with random people in a car at one point". Like even if those people were actually totally on the level... I'd still be a bit like "Wtf why would you do that?"

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I guess the question is though (and yeah I hate imagining my own kids in these scenarios, too) not how would you react if something DID happen to them but... If nothing happened? Like you know they're home safe and sound and nothing bad happened, and then their friend is like "She went off with random people in a car at one point". Like even if those people were actually totally on the level... I'd still be a bit like "Wtf why would you do that?"

Oh yeah of course, you want your kids to be safe always but equally can you imagine something like this happening and getting annoyed with your child rather than the rapist? of course not because it would sound like you were giving some of the blame to them which would be very wrong

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

If people are being mocking / aggressive, or suggesting the perpetrators don't deserve punishment for this reason, then I agree, but I also think it should be possible to point out risky behaviour whilst still sympathising with the victim. The problem otherwise is that you are implying that "this ISN'T risky" which makes others less likely to consider it a risk in future.

And again... It clearly IS a risk. It shouldn't be one, rapists shouldn't exist, but it is, and they do, and always will. Shouldn't happen doesn't = won't happen, or even is unlikely to happen.

There's risk in everything, we don't say 'well, this person got murdered but he didn't think of the risks before he got killed so...'

Like Niamh said, she was young and starstruck. She wasn't just going off with random strangers, she was going off with well known people and she probably felt safer for it. The problem here isn't her lack of judgement but the fact that these people abused the trust she had in them, as misplaced as it might be.

Rape goes unreported and unpunished far too much because most victims don't want to be put on trial when they are already in a vulnerable position. Even mentioning the risks she took takes blame away from her attackers. The courts, in these cases, need to focus less on the victim and how they can blame her for what happened and more on establishing whether consent was given or if the victim was even in a position to give consent.

Everything else is just noise.

[smudgie]

Friends and partners can rape you, more likely than a stranger I reckon.