[sampvt]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

You're in contact with some family by phone and I actually live here, who knows more I wonder . . .?

You know what I mean and taking the piss out of me isn't the way to win a debate. Ill leave that thought with you because \I cant afford a ban, you win, all of Ireland loves gays.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...two children French kissing is a bit different though, there are many people who that wouldn't sit right with/to see...obviously for their welfare and would that could possibly lead to/and illegal age etc...so I don't really get your analogy there...but I do respect your feelings on homosexuality and that you feel how you feel at the sight of two males kissing..what I find interesting really is how some mind-sets can change and others are found more difficult to...

I think the analogy was a metaphor for the feeling it invokes more than a direct comparison. There are others that hold similar views, can identify on some level or understand what is being suggested.
Mindsets can and do change, on all kinds of issues some quicker than others, it's no bad thing to admit you struggle due to complex conditioning.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by sampvt

Dezzy I am 63 now and was born bred and raised in Ireland for most of my life so that gives me the right. \I am Irish living in England. I wont argue with you two, end of.

Northern Ireland not Southern Ireland, I'm talking about Southern Ireland

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by sampvt

You know what I mean and taking the piss out of me isn't the way to win a debate. Ill leave that thought with you because \I cant afford a ban, you win, all of Ireland loves gays.

Super, I knew you'd agree eventually

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

You're in contact with some family by phone and I actually live here, who knows more I wonder . . .?

He was brought up there, and in a different generation to you, bit much to attempt to dismiss his experiences or view because you're Irish and don't feel the same.

[Samm]

People living in a different "generation" doesn't matter they need to move out of there olden ways.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

He was brought up there, and in a different generation to you, bit much to attempt to dismiss his experiences or view because you're Irish and don't feel the same.

She's justified her points of view, she's quoted the polls as her source, she's discounting his opinion because he is making statements without backing them up.

[sampvt]

Originally Posted by ~Sam~

People living in a different "generation" doesn't matter they need to move out of there olden ways.

Or maybe youngsters need to respect elders views, cuts both ways or does the world exist on the present only and discounts the pasts history. let me remind you that the present is built on the past and what we did gave you a platform to live on.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by sampvt

Or maybe youngsters need to respect elders views, cuts both ways or does the world exist on the present only and discounts the pasts history. let me remind you that the present is built on the past and what we did gave you a platform to live on.

Totally agree with this

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by sampvt

Or maybe youngsters need to respect elders views, cuts both ways or does the world exist on the present only and discounts the pasts history. let me remind you that the present is built on the past and what we did gave you a platform to live on.

I think it's important to remember the past so that we do not repeat the MANY mistakes of the previous generation.

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by sampvt

Or maybe youngsters need to respect elders views, cuts both ways or does the world exist on the present only and discounts the pasts history. let me remind you that the present is built on the past and what we did gave you a platform to live on.

Ah yes, thank you so much for growing up during the time of a flourishing welfare state and no university fees and then getting rid of most of it by the time it's our generation's chance. But don't worry you guys have your pensions never mind us

[sampvt]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

Totally agree with this

Im glad you do chuff but obviously someone does not, I got infracted. That's a blatant abuse of power and now will probably get a ban. I didn't invite Niamphs comments, she came in and insulted me now I get infracted. Delete this post if you want but everyone knows how this site is run now. Goodbye

[Ammi]

..you really can't explain everything away though by opinions 'back in the day' because those were opinions then and yes, factored by many things but there's a huge long distance of the in between to now and what our opinions are now...and if we feel it's just how we were brought up etc, then how will anything ever change/advance/and move because we're just justifying it not to and not looking any more deeply into it/why we feel as we do...people can live in the same place/have similar upbringings and feel entirely different about many things, look at siblings who have the same environment but can have opposing opinions on many things/be so different..?...anyways, my dad was born in Northern Ireland also and lived there until he was an adult and had no prejudices whatsoever on anything that I ever knew of, I can truly say that...so it's not times/places at all really, it's people and the differences of people and how they absorb differently...

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by sampvt

Or maybe youngsters need to respect elders views, cuts both ways or does the world exist on the present only and discounts the pasts history. let me remind you that the present is built on the past and what we did gave you a platform to live on.

And when things change, they change for a reason.

I have respect for the past, but I don't want to live in it.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by ~Sam~

People living in a different "generation" doesn't matter they need to move out of there olden ways.

As I said earlier in the thread, these people won't be around for much longer. It's a generational thing, with every passing one things will become more tolerant and open minded and that can only be a good thing

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I think it's important to remember the past so that we do not repeat the MANY mistakes of the previous generation.

Quite right.

Originally Posted by JoshBB

Ah yes, thank you so much for growing up during the time of a flourishing welfare state and no university fees and then getting rid of most of it by the time it's our generation's chance. But don't worry you guys have your pensions never mind us

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

She's justified her points of view, she's quoted the polls as her source, she's discounting his opinion because he is making statements without backing them up.

How can you back up a personal opinion though?

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Yeah you don't have to want to see or enjoy seeing it, there's a big difference between that and not accepting it. I remember when I took my first bf home to meet my parents, they were both accepting of him, and us being in a relationship, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have wanted to see us doing anything That doesn't make them homophobic though. I just don't like it when people call it things like disgusting etc because it's incredibly belittling. Even if that's how they genuinely feel.

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah I'm pretty sure most parents wouldn't be over joyed watching their kids kiss or whatever with their partner regardless of whether they were straight or gay

..kissing is ok, they often kiss their partners in front of us and I find it really sweet and touching/that display of their love but beyond that, that would be all kinds of weird to imagine...I would say just as ick, as them imagining their dad and I...I mean, just no...

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

Ah yes, thank you so much for growing up during the time of a flourishing welfare state and no university fees and then getting rid of most of it by the time it's our generation's chance. But don't worry you guys have your pensions never mind us

I believe Sam worked for his pension,the world does not owe anyone a living,if you want something get out there and work for it as people did in Sams day,I am sure you have it much easier now tbh.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

How can you back up a personal opinion though?

These are statements, a lot of what he posted on the Ireland issue are unqualified statements.

Originally Posted by sampvt

I have family there and you are wrong but lets leave it at that shall we.

Originally Posted by sampvt

So Polls are never wrong now. Sorry but my telephone tells a different story, not some spotty geek on a high street soliciting poll opinions whilst most of the oldies are housebound.

[user104658]

Wow. A whole thread dedicated to lumping people into categories. Gay, Straight, Catholic, Protestant, English, Northern Irish, Southern Irish... will there ever be a day when these things become tiny aspects of how people define themselves and others as individuals? It drives me nuts on both sides. Can't stand it when people judge others based on their sexuality. But I equally can't stand it when people define themselves by their own sexuality (or gender, or race, or country of origin). This should NOT be the over-riding component of who you are as a free-thinking human being, and it seems to be for far too many.

I personally don't have time for any of it, it's ridiculous. There are, and should be, individuals, and humans, and that's it. Further subcategories are unnecessary and problematic.

So yeah... I don't have time for anyone who can't "accept" homosexuality (or anything else) because they were "raised that way" or are "from another generation" - unless they are simpletons, they can sit down and actually think about the issue for themselves rationally and logically. If they come to the (obvious) conclusion that it is perfectly fine, and also none of their business what anyone else does so long as it isn't harming others then they are a good and reasonable person. If they come to the conclusion that it is somehow "wrong" then they are piece of ****.

But let me also add, I also have very little time for individuals who happen to be homosexual whining that they are the only ones (along with ethnic minorities, apparently) who can face discrimination or hardship. Heterophobia exists. It is far less serious than homophobia. This does not mean it can't exist. It's reactionary and emotionally driven nonsense to suggest that this is the case.

"OW I've cut my finger!"
"Errrr no me and several other people in the world have suffered the loss of a limb. You can't begin to understand that. Cuts on the finger simply do not exist."

Derp. No.

There is absolutely no inherent suggestion of equivalence in pointing out that the the term heterophobia exists. The suggestion of equivalence pretty much always comes from those who adamantly state that it doesn't exist, and in a reactionary fashion. It is, again, unnecessary.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I believe Sam worked for his pension,the world does not owe anyone a living,if you want something get out there and work for it as people did in Sams day,I am sure you have it much easier now tbh.

[Margarine.]

Originally Posted by sampvt

Im glad you do chuff but obviously someone does not, I got infracted. That's a blatant abuse of power and now will probably get a ban. I didn't invite Niamphs comments, she came in and insulted me now I get infracted. Delete this post if you want but everyone knows how this site is run now. Goodbye

I'm sure that there has been no abuse of power here at all.

Your infraction isn't because you offered a differing opinion, it's most likely because of the way you have conducted yourself whilst delivering that opinion.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Wow. A whole thread dedicated to lumping people into categories. Gay, Straight, Catholic, Protestant, English, Northern Irish, Southern Irish... will there ever be a day when these things become tiny aspects of how people define themselves and others as individuals? It drives me nuts on both sides. Can't stand it when people judge others based on their sexuality. But I equally can't stand it when people define themselves by their own sexuality (or gender, or race, or country of origin). This should NOT be the over-riding component of who you are as a free-thinking human being, and it seems to be for far too many.

I personally don't have time for any of it, it's ridiculous. There are, and should be, individuals, and humans, and that's it. Further subcategories are unnecessary and problematic.

So yeah... I don't have time for anyone who can't "accept" homosexuality (or anything else) because they were "raised that way" or are "from another generation" - unless they are simpletons, they can sit down and actually think about the issue for themselves rationally and logically. If they come to the (obvious) conclusion that it is perfectly fine, and also none of their business what anyone else does so long as it isn't harming others then they are a good and reasonable person. If they come to the conclusion that it is somehow "wrong" then they are piece of ****.

But let me also add, I also have very little time for individuals who happen to be homosexual whining that they are the only ones (along with ethnic minorities, apparently) who can face discrimination or hardship. Heterophobia exists. It is far less serious than homophobia. This does not mean it can't exist. It's reactionary and emotionally driven nonsense to suggest that this is the case.

"OW I've cut my finger!"
"Errrr no me and several other people in the world have suffered the loss of a limb. You can't begin to understand that. Cuts on the finger simply do not exist."

Derp. No.

There is absolutely no inherent suggestion of equivalence in pointing out that the the term heterophobia exists. The suggestion of equivalence pretty much always comes from those who adamantly state that it doesn't exist, and in a reactionary fashion. It is, again, unnecessary.

So only straight people put people in catergories? What a load of utter rubbish

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by sampvt

Im glad you do chuff but obviously someone does not, I got infracted. That's a blatant abuse of power and now will probably get a ban. I didn't invite Niamphs comments, she came in and insulted me now I get infracted. Delete this post if you want but everyone knows how this site is run now. Goodbye

We haven't abused anything and you know that, it's not our fault that you are incapable of accepting blame for your own actions.

[Ninastar]

My view on this (and I know many disagree, but hey ho, das the internet for you) is that there are gay people out there who look down on straight people. And yes, it is absolutely no where near as bad, its silly to even suggest so, But for anyone to look down on anyone for whatever reason is just plain awful, no matter how privileged/unprivileged the person is.

I think this whole 'Black people/Gay people have it so much worse than 'White/Straight people' so white people/straight people issues are no where near as important' idea actually does more damage than good. It makes me think of these militant feminists who make on that the worst thing in the world is a man, when they have a lot of issues they face too, yet aren't allowed to voice their opinions about it.

My view is that anyone can be racist/homophobic/xenophobic/hetereophobic/whatever and it doesn't matter what your background is