[user104658]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Yes, treating women who choose certain careers like they don’t have the agency of adult women to choose those careers because they’ve obviously been abused or manipulated into doing the careers by evil, exploitative men is sexist and demeans adults abilities to make their own decisions.

You seriously become quite deranged whenever you discuss these things, you’re always high and mighty about everything you post about, but this takes it to the next level

They're not all manipulated into doing it by dirty old men, they just wouldn't have anyone paying for it if the world wasn't full of dirty old men. What's hard to grasp about this, Liam?

[Liam-]

And unsurprisingly he ventures off into thinly veiled homophobia, like he does whenever he gets challenged on his opinions by gay men

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Liam-

And unsurprisingly he ventures off into thinly veiled homophobia, like he does whenever he gets challenged on his opinions by gay men

WHERE is the homophobia . Is it because I pointed out that young male sex workers are usually paid for by old men, just like young female sex workers are usually paid for by old men. That is called a FACT Liam and has nothing to do with homophobia, it's purely pointing out that it's men doing the objectifying.

Feel free to call it misandry, which would be accurate. I'm actually saying that these old blokes are all the same, gay or straight. Not sure how that's homophobia but the lack of comprehension is par for the course so we'll let it slide eh.

[Liam-]

Men are all dirty, evil perverts (except for QB because he’s the perfect bastion or morality and sensibilities) and women are dainty, easily manipulated fairies who don’t know what they’re doing and should be protected from themselves if they do things that QB doesn’t agree with

[Alf]

Taylor Swift wears less on stage.

[Alf]

Sam Smith wears less than Swift.

[Alf]

Woman are such victims these days. I'm old enough to know and remember strong women. Not the fake strong of today. When they just say they're strong, but the reality is they have to be defended on nonsense things like this.

I blame the demise of humour.

[Alf]

We love eye candy.

As the Rolling Stones once said

"I see the girls go by dressed in their Summer clothes"

We don't try to stop you ogling Sam Smith, so give us the same courtesy and the World will be a more tolerant place.

Attempt to stop being intolerant if you can, for all our sakes, basically.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Alf

We love eye candy.

As the Rolling Stones once said

"I see the girls go by dressed in their Summer clothes"

We don't try to stop you ogling Sam Smith, so give us the same courtesy and the World will be a more tolerant place.

Attempt to stop being intolerant if you can, for all our sakes, basically.

Don't think I will stop being intolerant of slimey old geezers Alf, no.

By "all our sakes" I assume that's who you're referring to. The smelly old gits perving on young women who want to do it without judgement. Nah. I'm judging.

[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by Quantum Boy

Don't think I will stop being intolerant of slimey old geezers Alf, no.

By "all our sakes" I assume that's who you're referring to. The smelly old gits perving on young women who want to do it without judgement. Nah. I'm judging.

Sorry what age are you 'smelly old gits', honestly you really haven't got a leg to stand on at this stage, women want to walk on stage promoting the sponsor wearing a dress, and gasp showing a bit of cleavage .... sorry Mr Victorian or should I call you Mr Burkah, but yeah its going to happen Walking around in a dress is not sex work....no matter how you twist it

[Liam-]

The man who doesn’t think women have the agency to control their own body and do the careers they want to do calls everyone else misogynists

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Sorry what age are you 'smelly old gits', honestly you really haven't got a leg to stand on at this stage, women want to walk on stage promoting the sponsor wearing a dress, and gasp showing a bit of cleavage .... sorry Mr Victorian or should I call you Mr Burkah, but yeah its going to happen Walking around in a dress is not sex work....no matter how you twist it

Originally Posted by Liam-

The man who doesn’t think women have the agency to control their own body and do the careers they want to do calls everyone else misogynists

I'll just direct you both to the above post. I have no issue with the women who are making money from this. I just wish there was no money to make from it. You seem to be happy with a world full of the men who are paying ... ... except when you aren't on another topic? You don't get to pick and choose, if you want a world full of better men and by some miracle it happens, then there will be no walk on girls, and no OnlyFans, because no one will be reaching into their pockets whilst thinking with their dicks. It's really THAT simple.

And to say that the casual objectification of women (e.g. in this case, darts walk on girls) has "nothing to do with" the porn and prostitution industries, or to deny that those industries are rife with exploitation of (mostly) young (mostly) women? Come on. It's just objectively the reality of the situation.

[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by Quantum Boy

I'll just direct you both to the above post. I have no issue with the women who are making money from this. I just wish there was no money to make from it. You seem to be happy with a world full of the men who are paying ... ... except when you aren't on another topic? You don't get to pick and choose, if you want a world full of better men and by some miracle it happens, then there will be no walk on girls, and no OnlyFans, because no one will be reaching into their pockets whilst thinking with their dicks. It's really THAT simple.

And to say that the casual objectification of women (e.g. in this case, darts walk on girls) has "nothing to do with" the porn and prostitution industries, or to deny that those industries are rife with exploitation of (mostly) young (mostly) women? Come on. It's just objectively the reality of the situation.

Do you have any issue with women who perform on stage in skimpy outfits and open their legs during dance routines for example Beyonce?

[jet]

QB/TS, I don’t know what sort of company you keep, or what sports premises you hang around in to observe such behaviour but your description of men when attractive adult women appear is totally offensive to decent blokes everywhere.

slimey old geezers
smelly old gits
dirty old men
gross old pervs.
fat bastards drinking beer
sad gammons
gross, perving trogs.
hand in their pants
ogling sleazeballs.
letching nonces,

An adult man appreciating an adult woman’s attractiveness wherever they appear isn’t sleazy, it’s normal. It’s also normal to not sit there and fume about objectification, we just carry on with our day/evening, our lives. Nobody got hurt.
Sure, there are sleazeballs out there. Some. You either seem to know them all or your unhinged imagination is running away with you.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Most adults are exploited very day at work, some more than others....minimum wage ....poor working conditions, unhelpful management and on it goes

I agree with you, but I'm not sure what your point is? Everyone is exploited, so why should we worry about a bit more? I disagree fundamentally. I don't think wage-slavery exploitation is OK either but that's not what the thread is about.

Originally Posted by Cherie

Do you have any issue with women who perform on stage in skimpy outfits and open their legs during dance routines for example Beyonce?

I don't have an issue with the women who are darts walk on girls so the question is loaded. If the women on stage are dressing how they want to dress because they like it and feel good then that's great. If they're doing it to sell more records to men twice their age then I find it marginally depressing; but I doubt that's their core fanbase. Apparently there's still some confusion about who and what I have an issue with here; it's not women making money or women showing skin.

Originally Posted by jet

QB/TS, I don’t know what sort of company you keep, or what sports premises you hang around in to observe such behaviour but your description of men when attractive adult women appear is totally offensive to decent blokes everywhere.

slimey old geezers
smelly old gits
dirty old men
gross old pervs.
fat bastards drinking beer
sad gammons
gross, perving trogs.
hand in their pants
ogling sleazeballs.
letching nonces,

An adult man appreciating an adult woman’s attractiveness wherever they appear isn’t sleazy, it’s normal. It’s also normal to not sit there and fume about objectification, we just carry on with our day/evening, our lives. Nobody got hurt.
Sure, there are sleazeballs out there. Some. You either seem to know them all or your unhinged imagination is running away with you.

50 year old men "appreciating" women half their age may be "normal" in the sense that it seems like a hell of a lot of men do it and are defensive of it but it's neither inevitable nor aspirational (how defensive the middle age+ men on here are about the whole issue is ... sure something ).

The fact that it's commoditised and commercialised for sports shows? Yes I stand by all of the above. Gross/letching/ogling etc. there's no other way to describe it and -- as TiBB is so fond of reminding everyone -- it's not OK to go around telling people how they should and shouldn't think. Pls respect my opinion that it's disgusting .

As a final thought? Your argument that "no one gets hurt" by the pervasive objectification of women in society - and yes tbh young people in general in society (objectification of young men in for example Hollywood is rife too) - is extremely naive and demonstrably false. A lot of people get hurt. In lots of different ways. Mostly women, mostly teens/young adults, sooo it's unsurprising that as usual no one really cares and happily trots off to mindlessly drift through their banal evening with nary a thought bothering them beyond what's for dinner.

I almost envy it, really.

[user104658]

I also have zero comprehension of why you think adults can't be exploited, but that's a whole different debate.

[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by Quantum Boy

I also have zero comprehension of why you think adults can't be exploited, but that's a whole different debate.

Most adults are exploited very day at work, some more than others....minimum wage ....poor working conditions, unhelpful management and on it goes

[Christmas Dynasnow]

The Jackpot only has eyes for his 'arras

what a pro

[Christmas Dynasnow]

[user104658]

The endless, endless conflation of simply "finding women attractive" and "objectifying and commodifying women".

They're not the same thing.

If people can't even get their head around that basic concept, I'm not surprised the rest isn't making sense.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

7 pages in and no one is batting for quantum soldier toy boy

rather says it all...

[Holly Christmas]

Originally Posted by Crimson Dynamo

7 pages in and no one is batting for quantum soldier toy boy

rather says it all...

I get where he's coming from

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kate!

I get where he's coming from

I'm choosing to believe that there are a few people who agree with the gist of the message, just not my... Umm... Methods of engagement...

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Quantum Boy

I'm choosing to believe that there are a few people who agree with the gist of the message, just not my... Umm... Methods of engagement...

You're not a genius. You're not always right. Being insulting doesn't do anything to make your point.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Beso

What is glaringly obvious to me is we have all missed the point of the walk on girls..

We must look at who the darts world is trying to draw to the game, and I believe we have the darts poster boy, Luke luttler who isnt even 18 yet. So for me darts are trying to get a younger audience, therefore, these 36 year old milf, walk on girls are there for the horny teenagers to ogle , in an effort to draw the closer to the sport..

Now, you see, I can accept that you may be right there (I don't know enough about darts to say if they're trying to attract younger players and a younger fan base - so I'll accept that as true if people interested in the sport are saying that's the case).

The overall point doesn't change though. If they need to use "you'll get to walk on with the sexy ladies!" to advertise draw a younger demographic to the sport, instead of just the merits of the game itself, then that's gross gutter-capitalism. It's straight out of some smokey 80's ad exec room. "If the product doesn't stand on its own two feet, it can stand on these boobies!"

And the sad thing is, the other thing I've learned from some of the more level-headed posts on this thread if they're correct.. Is that it isn't even needed. The sport has been drawing a new audience just fine without this. Totally unnecessary, probably the brainchild of a few old farts near the top and no one had the gumption to stand up to their completely outdated "great idea". If anything, if they're trying to further legitimise darts as a serious sport for serious young sports people, this does the exact opposite. Fires it right back into the realm of beer bellies and slippy pub floors. The impression that people have not been happy at all that I, as a non fan, have of the sport. It's doing nowt to improve the image.

All that said - one thing your post doesn't explain if you're right - is why it's only being done for the seniors game. Is that the one that's going to draw in the young lads?

Originally Posted by Livia

You're not always right. Being insulting doesn't do anything to make your point.

No one is always right, and I agree on the second point too, I'd obviously not do it to the extent I do here anywhere but on this sort of forum, but in my defense, that's because of countless years of experience that very few people on this forum have any interest whatsoever in the point being made. So it's not to make a point. In this case, it's simply to express my very real disgust at a certain objectifying mindset. I'm not trying to change opinions on here, most days I've no particular time for battering my head against a brick wall.