[Niamh.]

Oh it looks exactly like it, you're right I wonder if Arnold lost his son in real life too and they are his real memories

[Lostie!]

Ooh that's a good thought actually! There must be a reason Ford gave him the memories he did.

Oh btw, Bernard Lowe is apparently an anagram of Arnold Weber (I didn't initially put much stock on this because that could have very well been a coincidence or an intentional red herring and we don't even know Arnold's surname yet but since the Bernard = a host theory came true, and combined with the other possible clues, I'm seeing it as a real possibility now).

[Niamh.]

Oh that's clever, I was only thinking Arnold and Bernard are not dis similar

[Lostie!]

I don't know how people spot these little things. All this crazy theorizing is one of the things I love about this show so much

[Ammi]

..I finally caught up and watched the last episode...wow, a great ending..I'm still loving that kind of flipping of creators and hosts as well, that tear from Maeve as she saw Clementine.....while the creators carrying out the lobotomy and seeming less feeling of emotion as humans.../just loving everything about this series.....

[Lostie!]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I finally caught up and watched the last episode...wow, a great ending..I'm still loving that kind of flipping of creators and hosts as well, that tear from Maeve as she saw Clementine.....while the creators carrying out the lobotomy and seeming less feeling of emotion as humans.../just loving everything about this series.....

That's one of the deviations from the movie I love the most, how the Hosts have been fleshed out as characters in their own rights and all the moral questions that come with it. I really enjoyed the movie but I have to say I'm far preferring the TV series for how much deeper and more complex it is (all the cryptic mysteries really call to the Lost fan in me ), rather than it being a standard story of robots going haywire and killing the guests.

I watched episode 8 last night. Once again a fantastic episode (I'd lie if I said I wasn't confused because I definitely am but in a good way ).

Spoiler:

It's mainly Dolores' story that I'm most confused by with the little visions she keeps having It was cool to see the flashback from the park's early days again but this time to find out it was from Dolores' PoV (and I never even noticed Maeve in the background of that scene the first time around).

After the Host who greeted William showed up in the park and the Man in Black recognised her, I was back on board with the William = MiB theory but I'm still not sure if they're gonna do it. I had read a theory that her scenes with William were indeed taking place 30 years ago (during an earlier awakening she had due to the influence of Arnold) and those brief shots of her alone are actually her present-day.

I do think there are at least two separate timelines at play. I'm still convinced the Dolores / Bernard scenes are in the past and "Bernard" in those scenes is actually Arnold and the two different Westworld logos seen throughout the show is another hint. But then, the logo that seems to be the older one is seen when William arrives, and if the logos are significant then that definitely places his story in the past so he could be the Man in Black after all. UNLESS there's a huge swerve and the logo we think is the modern day one is actually the past one and vice versa.

MY HEAD

On a less mind melting note, I like Talulah Riley (Angela, the Host who greeted Wiliam) so I'm liking her role turning out to be a little bigger than expected. Her being revealed as a Wyatt follower was a cool twist.

Maeve remains amazing When she was literally dictating the story around her Cracked up at Armistice noticing the Sheriff tip his hat to her and shooting him anyway

As heartbreaking as Clementine being replaced is, I couldn't help but love the meta aspect of a character in a story noticing one of the the roles has been recast

[Niamh.]

Maeve is by far the best character, what's going to become of her now though? Dolores is just annoying

[arista]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Maeve is by far the best character, what's going to become of her now though? Dolores is just annoying

But Dolores
is a Sexy Robot.

I would........

[Shaun]

Just watching episode seven now.

Clementine going H.A.M. on the random asian bodyguard.

Bernard THERESA

[arista]

Originally Posted by Shaun

Just watching episode seven now.

Clementine going H.A.M. on the random asian bodyguard.

Bernard THERESA

Westworld better than Humans.



I am Pleased you cannot 2nd guess it all.

With 5.1 sound its a 10 Outta 10 Series

[Shaun]

I do like Evan Rachel Wood but she's far too similar to Anna Paquin in True Blood to take seriously/sexually. That constant confused voice.

Maeve any day.

[Shaun]

well

Just watched episode eight and it confused me, really. And I'm worried I'm tiring of the show already... everything seems to be boiled down to just Ford and his machinations and I'm not sure that's a premise big enough to interest me in the long run? Like every possible emotional following point now has either already been exposed as an orchestration by him (Bernard, Dolores), or I'm constantly thinking is secretly down to him (Maeve, William, The Man in Black). I guess this is why I never bothered getting into Lost, I kept hearing bad things about the need for a mystery being greater than the story being told.

It seems to be killing off surplus (female) characters (sort-of growing to understand those negative reviews... it's a bit formulaic now, just bash the woman's head in, strangle her, blah blah blah) that're sort of interesting to me (ALL THE WHILE KEEPING OBNOXIOUS ****HEADS WITH NO TANGIBLE STORYLINE VALUE. SIZEMORE. LOGAN. SYLVESTER.)... I should imagine Charlotte will go the same way soon

I don't know, I'm enjoying the concepts the show are throwing about but not so much...the show itself, the past few episodes. For once, I agree with the AV Club

“Trace Decay” didn’t need to be about Bernard’s efforts to cover his tracks, but it’s mark of how Westworld has struggled to deliver as an episodic TV show that this introduction and casual discard of a potentially strong hook is as disappointing as it is. Wanting to know the answers isn’t the same as crafting a well-rounded narrative—it’s the reason we don’t weep over crosswords. The show hasn’t completely failed to deliver interesting characters, but it has done an inconsistent job at finding ways to make those characters matter as more than just pieces in the machine.

[arista]

"Just watched episode eight and it confused me, really."


Feck Me ..... Shaun
Its Utter Bliss


Its logical that robots
will be given fake memory's
like Blade Runner (1080P BOX SET)
and Soon
Blade Runner 2

[Lostie!]

I do get why it wouldn't be totally working for everyone because of the whole style of the show and the overly cryptic nature of it all right now but yeah I absolutely love it, this sort of stuff 100% appeals to me But of course I will need it all to be clearer by the season's end, I definitely want the mysterious nature to carry over into season 2 but with new mysteries, I want the stuff with Arnold and Dolores etc to all be clearer by the time season 1 comes to a close and I will be disappointed if the season ends with little clarification on those things.

I don't think Elsie is actually dead tbh, I'll be very surprised if she is. I'm a firm believer of "Well if you don't see a body..." (and since they're trying to point you towards thinking she's dead, that just makes me even more confident that she isn't).

[Niamh.]

I'm enjoying it too Lostie but getting back to a point Shaun made about heaping on the mysteries like they in Lost, i do hope they don't go down that road. That always pissed me off about Lost, they never really answered most of those "mysteries" or they just made no sense, it was clearly just to keep people watching

[Lostie!]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I'm enjoying it too Lostie but getting back to a point Shaun made about heaping on the mysteries like they in Lost, i do hope they don't go down that road. That always pissed me off about Lost, they never really answered most of those "mysteries" or they just made no sense, it was clearly just to keep people watching

To be fair I think they answered more than they get credit for (and it gets a lot of flack for "making it up as it went along" but they foreshadowed the whole show's endgame from the very first episode so I completely believe they knew where they were going but of course everything in between would have come along the way) but yeah I do think there were cases where they added stuff for the sake of mystery and didn't know exactly where to go with them. It always pissed me off that they never showed

Spoiler:

who was shooting from the other outrigger during the time travel in Season 5

I have faith though because it's Jonathan Nolan and he was responsible for Person of Interest which was absolutely brilliant, one of the most underrated shows ever

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Lostie!

To be fair I think they answered more than they get credit for (and it gets a lot of flack for "making it up as it went along" but they foreshadowed the whole show's endgame from the very first episode so I completely believe they knew where they were going but of course everything in between would have come along the way) but yeah I do think there were cases where they added stuff for the sake of mystery and didn't know exactly where to go with them. It always pissed me off that they never showed

Spoiler:

who was shooting from the other outrigger during the time travel in Season 5

I have faith though because it's Jonathan Nolan and he was responsible for Person of Interest which was absolutely brilliant, one of the most underrated shows ever

Oh Person of Interest is one i was considering starting actually, you recommend then?

regarding Lost,

Spoiler:

I half agree with you about them knowing how they were going to end it. I think they were planning on ending it with them being in purgatory and having all died in the crash but I think they diverted from that because for one everyone figured it out pretty quick and also because they wanted to drag it out alot longer then they'd planned because it got so successful.

One thing that annoyed me was that Temple stuff, what was that all about? And why of all people bring Sayid back from the dead?

[Lostie!]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Oh Person of Interest is one i was considering starting actually, you recommend then?

regarding Lost,

Spoiler:

I half agree with you about them knowing how they were going to end it. I think they were planning on ending it with them being in purgatory and having all died in the crash but I think they diverted from that because for one everyone figured it out pretty quick and also because they wanted to drag it out alot longer then they'd planned because it got so successful.

One thing that annoyed me was that Temple stuff, what was that all about? And why of all people bring Sayid back from the dead?

Yeah I loved it. If you do start it, it might not grab you at first but most people agree it's a show that got heaps better as it progressed. It's a combination of most episodes at first having a standalone case and also an ongoing storyline gradually progressing but the ongoing story is really really interesting and only grows in prominence as the show goes on. And Michael Emerson (Ben from Lost) is the lead so there's enough reason right there to watch

And with Lost,

Spoiler:

yeah I didn't love how it got more mystical and fantasy at the end and the stuff with the Temple water and Sayid and Claire going evil with this "sickness" and why the Man in Black couldn't attack the Temple was never clear tbh

I preferred the more science fiction aspects with The Dharma Initiative so yeah I do think it went a little off track by the final season but it's still my favourite show ever

But the scene in the Pilot with Locke explaining backgammon and his speech about "two players, one is light, one is dark" was really nice foreshadowing of Jacob and the Man in Black, I certainly don't think they knew exactly what they were gonna do with that at the time but they have said they at least knew those two sides were going to be represented by two people eventually and I believe that much.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Oh Person of Interest is one i was considering starting actually, you recommend then?

regarding Lost,

Spoiler:

I half agree with you about them knowing how they were going to end it. I think they were planning on ending it with them being in purgatory and having all died in the crash but I think they diverted from that because for one everyone figured it out pretty quick and also because they wanted to drag it out alot longer then they'd planned because it got so successful.

One thing that annoyed me was that Temple stuff, what was that all about? And why of all people bring Sayid back from the dead?

Do we really still need spoiler tags for Lost? Anyway...

Spoiler:

I agree that it was probably their plan from the beginning for it to be purgatory but in my opinion, it was obvious from near the beginning (after everyone figured it out) that to keep the suspense they not only decided to steer people away from that conclusion... but actually decided NOT to go in that direction, instead genuinely writing it as science fiction rather than pseudo-religion. And I think while it was on that track, it was actually a better show going in a better direction. Then they couldn't figure out how to conclude it so they THEN said "let's just do the Purgatory thing"... which, tbqfh, after several seasons going in another direction, no longer made much sense at all.

They should either have stuck with the changed direction... or just accepted in the first place that people had figured out the "purgatory" angle and kept with it, exploring the nature of purgatory and what it all means. Who would move on, is it possible to find a way back, the personal journies experienced there, etc...

[Lostie!]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Do we really still need spoiler tags for Lost? Anyway...

Spoiler:

I agree that it was probably their plan from the beginning for it to be purgatory but in my opinion, it was obvious from near the beginning (after everyone figured it out) that to keep the suspense they not only decided to steer people away from that conclusion... but actually decided NOT to go in that direction, instead genuinely writing it as science fiction rather than pseudo-religion. And I think while it was on that track, it was actually a better show going in a better direction. Then they couldn't figure out how to conclude it so they THEN said "let's just do the Purgatory thing"... which, tbqfh, after several seasons going in another direction, no longer made much sense at all.

They should either have stuck with the changed direction... or just accepted in the first place that people had figured out the "purgatory" angle and kept with it, exploring the nature of purgatory and what it all means. Who would move on, is it possible to find a way back, the personal journies experienced there, etc...

Well you never know if someone is planning on starting the show, I'd only feel right talking about the ending without tags in an actual Lost thread

I do get all that tbh, as I say there are gripes I totally agree with but I do also think it gets more flack than it deserves in some regards

Spoiler:

like people saying "Oh they were dead all along" when the finale quite clearly pointed out that they weren't at all. I think there are genuine, valid issues with the show (as you and Niamh have addressed) that sometimes get lost (lol) among a lot of generic moaning about things that aren't actually true because criticising the Lost ending has become a very popular thing to do. Like I zone out as soon as someone says "the Island was Purgatory" or "literally nothing was answered".

But with Westworld they have said they have like 5 seasons mapped out in advance so I like to think they know exactly where they plan on going with it and already know the outcomes to the mysteries they've set up (even if they don't get that far). I'll give them the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise anyway

[Tom4784]

Episode 8 was okay but the reveals being so obvious have annoyed me and dampened my enjoyment of the show as a whole as they could have done some of the reveals earlier on and made the plot move along a bit more. It feels like we've been waiting around just to be given the obvious answers.

I do agree with what Shaun was saying about killing off good characters, it does feel needless especially when there's a surplus of uninteresting characters who are still around.

The Maeve plotline is great though.

[Ammi]

...mind you that early killing off of characters who could have developed further is something that TWD has never been afraid to do as well and it has allowed a growth also and been quite successful...

Spoiler:

..I'm going to re-watch episode 8 this weekend because I was pre-occupied doing something else when I watched it so didn't really understand it all...oooops...

[arista]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...mind you that early killing off of characters who could have developed further is something that TWD has never been afraid to do as well and it has allowed a growth also and been quite successful...

Spoiler:

..I'm going to re-watch episode 8 this weekend because I was pre-occupied doing something else when I watched it so didn't really understand it all...oooops...

Spoiler:

Yes well worth it
its 10 Outta 10

[Lostie!]

Episode 9!!! (yes I know I've loved every episode, this show can do no wrong for me)

Spoiler:

The theories of Bernard being a recreation of Arnold and the multiple time periods being confirmed I don't mind that the twists are things that have been heavily theorized because the clues have been there throughout the series, I like that they're doing things that make sense rather than attempting to do twists that nobody would ever guess and going with things that make no sense as a result as so many other shows do at times. Also, shows like this that invite mass speculation wouldn't be fun if they just decided to go for a random WTF reveal and disregard the clues for the sake of shock value, the whole appeal of forming theories is the possibility that you're on to something so I love the show for not cheating for the sake of shock.

Also I wouldn't have even thought of multiple time periods if I hadn't read the theories online that made me look at certain scenes in a new light. Same with Bernard being based on Arnold, if I hadn't already read the theories and clues I wouldn't have considered it myself prior to maybe last week so I don't think they were twists that were glaringly obvious, just that the signs were there if you looked for the right things.

Someone online a few weeks ago also suggested the woman in the photo that Dolores' father found in the first episode was Logan's sister so very cool to have that confirmed too (along with that being the moment that essentially confirmed those scenes were taking place years ago, well, that and Dolores having mechanical insides).

The Man in Black being a Delos board member completely took me by surprise, didn't expect that. I'm now more convinced than ever that he's an older William and he gets into the company by marrying Logan's sister (since Logan's family have a share).

If Angela is anything to go by it seems like Wyatt's cult are self aware Hosts so I'm wondering if Ford's new narrative is something to do with awakening the Hosts (which would be odd considering his God complex and how he delights in having complete control over them but I'm very intrigued).

I've read another theory that Dolores is Wyatt which sounded absolutely absurd when I first heard it but now I'm considering it. Last week we saw Dolores have a flashback of that same shooting that Wyatt and Teddy perpetrated, and it was made to look like maybe Dolores was the shooter (but it was ambiguous of course). It would be cool since it would still tie Teddy to Dolores but in a whole new way (and we've seen Wyatt as a man but that could be Teddy's programming to remember him a certain way). Wyatt has to be more than just some bad guy who isn't someone else we know considering his apparent importance to the endgame so yeah, I definitely think the guy we've seen as Wyatt isn't what he actually looks like (and the Hosts are the absolute definition of unreliable narrators as far as their supposed memories go).

Really happy to see Clementine again (even if she was just a mindless drone). I hope Maeve pulls her into her rebellion, we can't have her just stuck in cold storage forever. I'm also wondering what will become of Bernard, I know Ford made him kill himself but that isn't really true death to a Host so I wonder if he'll wake up and join in the revolt with Maeve and co.

And yeah, Elsie 100000% is alive, they keep teasing Bernard "killing" her without showing her actually dead. Wonder where she's been hanging out these past few weeks. (watch her actually be dead now )

Also I can't forget my obligatory Maeve is ****ing awesome comment

My posts on this show are always so long, there's so much to talk about

[Lostie!]

So the penultimate episode got the second highest ratings of the season so far (and were extremely close to matching the season high)