[Ant.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I can't believe this has got so deep.

Uniforms do as the name suggests, provide uniformity to kids at school. It also provides them with a "school identity". Jersey - I'm not sure what its like where you are in the States but where I am right now within a 3 mile radius we have 3 high schools, the uniform also helps to distinguish which school they are from for a variety of reasons including identifying truancy (although they are more likely not to be in uniform), being able to identify any safeguarding issues (if they are out of school when they should be in etc), any kids causing trouble can be reported to schools etc etc.

Kids here are used to wearing uniforms - until I read this thread, I didn't think anyone thought it was a big issue. Kids in the UK, when they get to High School pretty much accept there is a uniform, I can't see it changing and the nightmare that "non-uniform" days used to cause when I was at school made me dread them

[JerseyWins]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

First of all, I'M not looking for anything. You are the one making the claims and it's down to you to back them up.

Yes, people react differently to anything in life. Just as ANYTHING can be a trigger to someone suffering with anxiety or any other mental illness.

That doesn't support your stance that is against uniforms as they "could form part of a trigger for an already ill person" as ANYTHING can form a trigger for them, and not all of them will be at all bothered by a uniform. There is no DIRECT correlation for it to be used as a reason to not have school uniforms.

Is it that complex? Well actually yes, which is why your argument doesn't work.

But, again, uniforms are the norm over here. You're from America aren't you? I imagine the norm is the opposite.

So you agree that uniforms can have a psychological effect that triggers a person’s anxiety/depression but not how it could do the same for someone in a normal psychological state as well? Everyone is not exactly the same psychologically sound. In your mind if someone finds any of the psychological problems with uniforms, it only means they have some kind of anxiety or condition that it’s triggering? Even so if it’s only a potential issue for someone with anxiety why have we implemented something that still CAN effect these kids negatively, for something that is not an actual benefit for the education of a child. Which I will argue why it’s not a benefit if given reasons, which there now actually are some presented

And yes I believe freedom principles, for kids or otherwise, are a lot more common, widespread & adamant about around here in the US so it could just be differing mindsets within different countries. (Not everyone is against uniforms here though but it’s a lot more common than I see in this thread and typically the uniforms are a private school thing, not public schools)

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I can't believe this has got so deep.

Uniforms do as the name suggests, provide uniformity to kids at school. It also provides them with a "school identity". Jersey - I'm not sure what its like where you are in the States but where I am right now within a 3 mile radius we have 3 high schools, the uniform also helps to distinguish which school they are from for a variety of reasons including identifying truancy (although they are more likely not to be in uniform), being able to identify any safeguarding issues (if they are out of school when they should be in etc), any kids causing trouble can be reported to schools etc etc.

Kids here are used to wearing uniforms - until I read this thread, I didn't think anyone thought it was a big issue. Kids in the UK, when they get to High School pretty much accept there is a uniform, I can't see it changing and the nightmare that "non-uniform" days used to cause when I was at school made me dread them

Most of these potential benefits come after school, where they would be able to dress freely, adjust their uniforms (where it could not be recognizable), put a coat over, etc.
There are also security measures to prevent kids from leaving schools, including usually at least one cop by one of the exits (not every school but more & more safety measures are taken here especially with shootings), cameras, and traffic workers/flaggers which would raise a red flag if any kid is away during school hours

As for identity, it gives identity for the school but not individual students, they all start to blend in more and laziness in identifying which students actually belong to the school may develop because you’re just looking for the uniforms. An intruder can easily blend in with the group just by knowing the uniform policy for the school and teachers & supervisors are always keyed in on the uniforms, not the faces and identities that belong to the school.

Re: Cherie’s post (I assume Kaz quoted it from pages back as I can’t find the post to quote it )

- Easier/quicker in the morning... what happens when part of the uniform is misplaced in the morning? Uniform(s) being prepared for the wash accidentally forgotten about? Hell, these uniforms in plenty cases require more articles of clothing than the typical wardrobe. Is it really saving much difference-making time overall and is there not also a downside that loses time?
- Students learn about what formal dressing is in school and when it should be used. They don’t need to be forced into what to wear as kids in school in order to learn that. There is no directly positive form of disciplining with full wardrobe guidelines as there would be for punishment for misbehaving, etc. I believe in disciplining in ways that improve a person. I learned about correct formal dressing quite easily while having total freedom as a kid in school (of course with dress code boundaries, which is normal and more along the lines of conduct that is actually used in businesses for adults)
- It does seem to save money for parents in most cases, a bit of a benefit for them which I just about fully agree there (not all cases but it’s a fair point) and said myself as well

Again, being from America it may be a difference of opinion here but to me and many Americans’ beliefs, there should be some kind of very quality, progressive benefit to limit one’s freedom in ANY way, as major or minor as it is. Does it actually improve a student’s learning, atmosphere, etc.? When you look more carefully at uniforms’ supposed “benefits” I don’t believe it does.

[Jason.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

So you agree that uniforms can have a psychological effect that triggers a person’s anxiety/depression but not how it could do the same for someone in a normal psychological state as well? Everyone is not exactly the same psychologically sound. In your mind if someone finds any of the psychological problems with uniforms, it only means they have some kind of anxiety or condition that it’s triggering? Even so if it’s only a potential issue for someone with anxiety why have we implemented something that still CAN effect these kids negatively, for something that is not an actual benefit for the education of a child. Which I will argue why it’s not a benefit if given reasons, which there now actually are some presented

And yes I believe freedom principles, for kids or otherwise, are a lot more common, widespread & adamant about around here in the US so it could just be differing mindsets within different countries. (Not everyone is against uniforms here though but it’s a lot more common than I see in this thread and typically the uniforms are a private school thing, not public schools)




Most of these potential benefits come after school, where they would be able to dress freely, adjust their uniforms (where it could not be recognizable), put a coat over, etc.
There are also security measures to prevent kids from leaving schools, including usually at least one cop by one of the exits (not every school but more & more safety measures are taken here especially with shootings), cameras, and traffic workers/flaggers which would raise a red flag if any kid is away during school hours

As for identity, it gives identity for the school but not individual students, they all start to blend in more and laziness in identifying which students actually belong to the school may develop because you’re just looking for the uniforms. An intruder can easily blend in with the group just by knowing the uniform policy for the school and teachers & supervisors are always keyed in on the uniforms, not the faces and identities that belong to the school.

Re: Cherie’s post (I assume Kaz quoted it from pages back as I can’t find the post to quote it )

- Easier/quicker in the morning... what happens when part of the uniform is misplaced in the morning? Uniform(s) being prepared for the wash accidentally forgotten about? Hell, these uniforms in plenty cases require more articles of clothing than the typical wardrobe. Is it really saving much difference-making time overall and is there not also a downside that loses time?
- Students learn about what formal dressing is in school and when it should be used. They don’t need to be forced into what to wear as kids in school in order to learn that. There is no directly positive form of disciplining with full wardrobe guidelines as there would be for punishment for misbehaving, etc. I believe in disciplining in ways that improve a person. I learned about correct formal dressing quite easily while having total freedom as a kid in school (of course with dress code boundaries, which is normal and more along the lines of conduct that is actually used in businesses for adults)
- It does seem to save money for parents in most cases, a bit of a benefit for them which I just about fully agree there (not all cases but it’s a fair point) and said myself as well

Again, being from America it may be a difference of opinion here but to me and many Americans’ beliefs, there should be some kind of very quality, progressive benefit to limit one’s freedom in ANY way, as major or minor as it is. Does it actually improve a student’s learning, atmosphere, etc.? When you look more carefully at uniforms’ supposed “benefits” I don’t believe it does.

[Candy Annie Cane]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

So you agree that uniforms can have a psychological effect that triggers a person’s anxiety/depression but not how it could do the same for someone in a normal psychological state as well? Everyone is not exactly the same psychologically sound. In your mind if someone finds any of the psychological problems with uniforms, it only means they have some kind of anxiety or condition that it’s triggering? Even so if it’s only a potential issue for someone with anxiety why have we implemented something that still CAN effect these kids negatively, for something that is not an actual benefit for the education of a child. Which I will argue why it’s not a benefit if given reasons, which there now actually are some presented

And yes I believe freedom principles, for kids or otherwise, are a lot more common, widespread & adamant about around here in the US so it could just be differing mindsets within different countries. (Not everyone is against uniforms here though but it’s a lot more common than I see in this thread and typically the uniforms are a private school thing, not public schools)




Most of these potential benefits come after school, where they would be able to dress freely, adjust their uniforms (where it could not be recognizable), put a coat over, etc.
There are also security measures to prevent kids from leaving schools, including usually at least one cop by one of the exits (not every school but more & more safety measures are taken here especially with shootings), cameras, and traffic workers/flaggers which would raise a red flag if any kid is away during school hours

As for identity, it gives identity for the school but not individual students, they all start to blend in more and laziness in identifying which students actually belong to the school may develop because you’re just looking for the uniforms. An intruder can easily blend in with the group just by knowing the uniform policy for the school and teachers & supervisors are always keyed in on the uniforms, not the faces and identities that belong to the school.

Re: Cherie’s post (I assume Kaz quoted it from pages back as I can’t find the post to quote it )

- Easier/quicker in the morning... what happens when part of the uniform is misplaced in the morning? Uniform(s) being prepared for the wash accidentally forgotten about? Hell, these uniforms in plenty cases require more articles of clothing than the typical wardrobe. Is it really saving much difference-making time overall and is there not also a downside that loses time?
- Students learn about what formal dressing is in school and when it should be used. They don’t need to be forced into what to wear as kids in school in order to learn that. There is no directly positive form of disciplining with full wardrobe guidelines as there would be for punishment for misbehaving, etc. I believe in disciplining in ways that improve a person. I learned about correct formal dressing quite easily while having total freedom as a kid in school (of course with dress code boundaries, which is normal and more along the lines of conduct that is actually used in businesses for adults)
- It does seem to save money for parents in most cases, a bit of a benefit for them which I just about fully agree there (not all cases but it’s a fair point) and said myself as well

Again, being from America it may be a difference of opinion here but to me and many Americans’ beliefs, there should be some kind of very quality, progressive benefit to limit one’s freedom in ANY way, as major or minor as it is. Does it actually improve a student’s learning, atmosphere, etc.? When you look more carefully at uniforms’ supposed “benefits” I don’t believe it does.

We don't have enough cops here to actually stop criminals, let alone stop a bunch of kids leaving a school

I understand a lot of what you're saying but I think in the main its more of a America / UK thing. You guys don't have uniforms, we do. Personally, I think they're a good thing I never resented wearing a uniform, its easier for me to sort my son's uniform out over a weekend, he knows what he has to wear, its all washed and ready to go on a monday with 5 clean shirts etc so he doesn't have to think when he gets up and I don't have to worry

[user104658]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

its all washed and ready to go on a monday with 5 clean shirts etc so he doesn't have to think when he gets up and I don't have to worry

organisation goals Annie... I'm lucky if I have enough ready to scrape by til Tuesday so that I can rewash their Monday stuff and hastily iron it at 8.20 on Wednesday morning .

I mean they literally each have 5+ uniforms somewhere, I'm sure they do, but I'm nowhere near proactive enough to have them ready over the weekend.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

organisation goals Annie... I'm lucky if I have enough ready to scrape by til Tuesday so that I can rewash their Monday stuff and hastily iron it at 8.20 on Wednesday morning .

I mean they literally each have 5+ uniforms somewhere, I'm sure they do, but I'm nowhere near proactive enough to have them ready over the weekend.

Mine have a school tracksuit and a uniform so 3 days uniform, 2 days tracksuit, it's a bit easier although mine are 15 and 18 so they have to make sure that they're washed themselves now

I haven't read all of the toing and froing here on this thread but I never realised it was so serious I've had a uniform conversation with my daughter before and she way prefers it, saves alot of wasted time and energy in the mornings

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

So you agree that uniforms can have a psychological effect that triggers a person’s anxiety/depression but not how it could do the same for someone in a normal psychological state as well?

I agreed it could do both. But I also said, anything could.

Or are we going to shield kids, wrap them up in cotton wool, say yes to everything they want to do, not allow them to do something that might initially be uncomfortable just on the off chance they're psychologically "triggered"?

I know Americans have the stereotype of popping off to the shrink's office at the slightest thing, but IMO that would be ridiculous.

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

Everyone is not exactly the same psychologically sound. In your mind if someone finds any of the psychological problems with uniforms, it only means they have some kind of anxiety or condition that it’s triggering? Even so if it’s only a potential issue for someone with anxiety why have we implemented something that still CAN effect these kids negatively.

Are they not? Thanks for the lesson, I didn't know that.

It's a wonder kids leave home with all these ifs and buts. The world is a scary place.

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

And yes I believe freedom principles, for kids or otherwise, are a lot more common, widespread & adamant about around here in the US so it could just be differing mindsets within different countries. (Not everyone is against uniforms here though but it’s a lot more common than I see in this thread and typically the uniforms are a private school thing, not public schools)

So, now it's about freedom rights?

Again, how will they cope in the actual real world where everybody else doesn't pander to their wants, especially in time that is not their own personal time?

That's all it is, pandering. You can use "possible, if, maybe, psychological effects" as an excuse all you want. But, again, that could apply to anything and is not such a direct link that it's a valid argument against uniforms.

They could, possibly, maybe have ill psychological effects from any mundane aspect of life.

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

An intruder can easily blend in with the group just by knowing the uniform policy for the school and teachers & supervisors are always keyed in on the uniforms, not the faces and identities that belong to the school.

Erm, no, no they're not.

But is this supposed to be against uniforms? Because this example you use is actually worse and more dangerous with kids wearing anything they choose, something different everyday. An intruder just has to walk in if your example is true, wearing anything they want.

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

Re: Cherie’s post (I assume Kaz quoted it from pages back as I can’t find the post to quote it )

- Easier/quicker in the morning... what happens when part of the uniform is misplaced in the morning? Uniform(s) being prepared for the wash accidentally forgotten about? Hell, these uniforms in plenty cases require more articles of clothing than the typical wardrobe. Is it really saving much difference-making time overall and is there not also a downside that loses time?

That could literally apply to anything.
If someone is so unorganised they've misplaced clothing, or forgot to wash it then they will do that no matter what the clothes are.

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

Again, being from America it may be a difference of opinion here but to me and many Americans’ beliefs, there should be some kind of very quality, progressive benefit to limit one’s freedom in ANY way, as major or minor as it is. Does it actually improve a student’s learning, atmosphere, etc.? When you look more carefully at uniforms’ supposed “benefits” I don’t believe it does.

Well, with that ridiculous mindset forcing children to attend school at all is limiting their freedom. But that's why they're kids. They don't have 100% autonomy on 100% of their lives. They have parents, guardians who are responsible for them until they come of age for a reason.

[JerseyWins]

I’m back again I totally forgot I didn’t finish replying to one of Marsh’s posts in a rush yesterday, which are actually pro-uniform arguments.

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Erm, no, no they're not.

But is this supposed to be against uniforms? Because this example you use is actually worse and more dangerous with kids wearing anything they choose, something different everyday. An intruder just has to walk in if your example is true, wearing anything they want.



That could literally apply to anything.
If someone is so unorganised they've misplaced clothing, or forgot to wash it then they will do that no matter what the clothes are.



Well, with that ridiculous mindset forcing children to attend school at all is limiting their freedom. But that's why they're kids. They don't have 100% autonomy on 100% of their lives. They have parents, guardians who are responsible for them until they come of age for a reason.

- The pro-uniforms point that was originally made was that it was a type of safety measure for students. They know which kids belong to which school, if there’s an intruder in the building, etc. etc. (I specifically brought up intruder but the original point was that exact type of reasoning)

My argument is that’s not true, as another kid, or potentially more dangerous intruder can blend right in if they simply know the uniform policy and match it. It’s not difficult to do. It’s a pro-uniforms point I disagree with actually being beneficial. Furthermore, if an intruder is actually spotted by someone in the hallway or on camera, which one is easier to find and identify? A unique face or a unique face AND wardrobe that they can warn supervisors/teachers/etc. about when they alarm a “code red” situation.


- It’s kinda easy to misplace one required item of clothing or be delayed on a planned wash schedule for something you have roughly 2 pairs of and no other choice or substitute. Typically a person in a regular situation would have other options to resolve being late for that reason.

The argument for uniforms is that it saves time in the morning. Not true necessarily. Your “unorganized” argument kinda makes the initial pro-uniforms point null and void as well Any organized person will have their wardrobe nicely sorted or even decided on the night before so that they take very little time to get ready in the morning.


- You also made another ridiculous exaggeration at the end there “why have them go to school at all” ... I explained this in depth in my latest post on the last page though so won’t get into it again. Apparently the thought process for one idea has to mean that an extreme comparison has to be true. Lol, no there should be regard to contexts & common sense obviously.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

A unique face or a unique face AND wardrobe that they can warn supervisors/teachers/etc. about when they alarm a “code red” situation.


- It’s kinda easy to misplace one required item of clothing or be delayed on a planned wash schedule for something you have roughly 2 pairs of and no other choice or substitute. Typically a person in a regular situation would have other options to resolve being late for that reason.

The argument for uniforms is that it saves time in the morning. Not true necessarily. Your “unorganized” argument kinda makes the initial pro-uniforms point null and void as well Any organized person will have their wardrobe nicely sorted or even decided on the night before so that they take very little time to get ready in the morning.

A unique wardrobe?

Will the school shooter enter the building dressed in bright red and a hat saying "MURDERER"?

As for the unorganised person point, that isn't really valid for or against uniforms. An unorganised person is an unorganised person regardless.

[Shaun]

Depends on the price of them and how much parents are expected to fork out for it, I suppose.

I think they're fine (if they're nice, anyway we were lucky in that regard) until the age of 16, college students and sixth-formers should be able to wear whatever they want.

[JerseyWins]

[I spent way, way, way too much time of my lunch break on that ] I didn’t bother proof-reading at all so hope it even structurally makes sense.

[Matthew.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

[I spent way, way, way too much time of my lunch break on that ] I didn’t bother proof-reading at all so hope it even structurally makes sense.

I was thinking while reading it, how long did this take to type up

[Tony Montana]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

[I spent way, way, way too much time of my lunch break on that ] I didn’t bother proof-reading at all so hope it even structurally makes sense.

Silly you, wasting your precious lunch break typing this up. You should've waited till you got home.

[JerseyWins]

Originally Posted by Tony Montana

Silly you, wasting your precious lunch break typing this up. You should've waited till you got home.

Once I read it I don’t have patience to make my counter-arguments later

I’m on mobile too, typed like wildfire to get all the words out I’ll see if there’s more to debate later but it seems pretty much a moot point either way, just what you believe does or doesn’t work

[Elliot]

Shocked so many people are so strongly for them. there were even a huge amount of teachers at my school that hated the uniform system. it was just something we all did even though we thought it was stupid....

[Ant.]

Okay I know this is serious news and debates but surely the advantages on non-uniform is "a child might like to wear what they like" and that's that? Is it THAT psychologically deep?

[Elliot]

Originally Posted by Ant.

Okay I know this is serious news and debates but surely the advantages on non-uniform is "a child might like to wear what they like" and that's that? Is it THAT psychologically deep?

The few advantages to uniform are also not that deep..... the best one I’ve heard is that it stops bullying because some kids have designer clothes and others have second hand or w/e but there were kids who got bullied for having second hand uniform or scruffy uniform because their parents don’t care so like

[Ant.]

Originally Posted by Elliot

The few advantages to uniform are also not that deep..... the best one I’ve heard is that it stops bullying because some kids have designer clothes and others have second hand or w/e but there were kids who got bullied for having second hand uniform or scruffy uniform because their parents don’t care so like

you're right, they're not. But people (and by people I mean someone who's name rhymes with PercyGins) are acting as if a uniform represses a child's psychological development

[Twosugars]

Bloody Yanks with their libertarian agenda

[Elliot]

Me and a friend also once got threatened on the way home from school for wearing a uniform of a certain school that had a certain reputation or w/e, and in year 10 we were all banned from going to the towns mcdonalds because a few kids caused a scene lololol guess trying to enforce collectivism and destroying any sense if individuality instead of just trying to, ykno, install good values really paying off lol

And I think with certain schools you can tell they only care about how they look and this is further enforced through uniform. Like they only make an effort ofsted days and spend more time teaching you how to pass an exam and giving you past papers then teaching you the syllabus properly so they can fill certain quotas and get better budgets.. this ends up pissing a lot of teachers off too because they get no freedom and are basically told to only focus on exam prep and homework instead of creating lessons. More indulgent with how their school looks rather than whether they make well rounded children and adults that’ll do well in life

[JerseyWins]

Originally Posted by Elliot

The few advantages to uniform are also not that deep..... the best one I’ve heard is that it stops bullying because some kids have designer clothes and others have second hand or w/e but there were kids who got bullied for having second hand uniform or scruffy uniform because their parents don’t care so like

Originally Posted by Elliot

Me and a friend also once got threatened on the way home from school for wearing a uniform of a certain school that had a certain reputation or w/e, and in year 10 we were all banned from going to the towns mcdonalds because a few kids caused a scene lololol guess trying to enforce collectivism and destroying any sense if individuality instead of just trying to, ykno, install good values really paying off lol

And I think with certain schools you can tell they only care about how they look and this is further enforced through uniform. Like they only make an effort ofsted days and spend more time teaching you how to pass an exam and giving you past papers then teaching you the syllabus properly so they can fill certain quotas and get better budgets.. this ends up pissing a lot of teachers off too because they get no freedom and are basically told to only focus on exam prep and homework instead of creating lessons. More indulgent with how their school looks rather than whether they make well rounded children and adults that’ll do well in life

Very good posts

[Ant.]

https://ie-today.co.uk/Blog/the-impa...mental-health/

interesting read

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Ant.

https://ie-today.co.uk/Blog/the-impa...mental-health/

interesting read

Look how detrimental it is and unnecessary to their lives though!

A nice pair of jeans and a cute top will cure that!

[Ant.]

Originally Posted by Elliot

Me and a friend also once got threatened on the way home from school for wearing a uniform of a certain school that had a certain reputation or w/e, and in year 10 we were all banned from going to the towns mcdonalds because a few kids caused a scene lololol guess trying to enforce collectivism and destroying any sense if individuality instead of just trying to, ykno, install good values really paying off lol

And I think with certain schools you can tell they only care about how they look and this is further enforced through uniform. Like they only make an effort ofsted days and spend more time teaching you how to pass an exam and giving you past papers then teaching you the syllabus properly so they can fill certain quotas and get better budgets.. this ends up pissing a lot of teachers off too because they get no freedom and are basically told to only focus on exam prep and homework instead of creating lessons. More indulgent with how their school looks rather than whether they make well rounded children and adults that’ll do well in life

okay I was sorta understanding what you were saying but 'destroying any sense of individuality' seems really extreme like... I don't feel unique walking around in jeans and a shirt rather than in a uniform. A lot of people feel that way but meh I guess it depends on the person

Well yeah, of course they want to look good It'd be ideal if they could keep it up 24/7 but they can't. Uniform is just a simple rule and while it can be overly strict, it isn't necessarily a bad thing. That can be controlled, whereas the pressures teacher's face can't always. Do you have a job? If you do, do you make a conscious effort to be focused and 'better' than you are when you're not around them? I certainly do. It's no different for teachers


I don't really understand your point? The whole point of school is to pass the exams. The advice always is do well in your exams rather than learning for the hell of it. And past papers are probably the best resource for revision for most people because it identifies weak areas and also practice exam technique which is what will get you the grades. That applies to most, if not 'all' schools. In the end, learning cell functions is fine and dandy, but would they always explicitly state "name this organelle" and "where does aerobic respiration occur in cells?". They'd phrase it in questions which make you think about what it's asking you for and whatever you get wrong you can learn there and then - within ten minutes you can cover exam technique, what you do and don't know, and how to improve on a topic, whereas going through it again in a lesson would only waste time. I'm sincerely hoping I'm not missing what point you're trying to make, I'm just a tad confused? Are you suggesting teachers don't teach anymore and make you teach yourself? If that's the case this part was completely irrelevant but yeah. idk what you mean

[Elliot]

Originally Posted by Ant.

okay I was sorta understanding what you were saying but 'destroying any sense of individuality' seems really extreme like... I don't feel unique walking around in jeans and a shirt rather than in a uniform. A lot of people feel that way but meh I guess it depends on the person

Well yeah, of course they want to look good It'd be ideal if they could keep it up 24/7 but they can't. Uniform is just a simple rule and while it can be overly strict, it isn't necessarily a bad thing. That can be controlled, whereas the pressures teacher's face can't always. Do you have a job? If you do, do you make a conscious effort to be focused and 'better' than you are when you're not around them? I certainly do. It's no different for teachers


I don't really understand your point? The whole point of school is to pass the exams. The advice always is do well in your exams rather than learning for the hell of it. And past papers are probably the best resource for revision for most people because it identifies weak areas and also practice exam technique which is what will get you the grades. That applies to most, if not 'all' schools. In the end, learning cell functions is fine and dandy, but would they always explicitly state "name this organelle" and "where does aerobic respiration occur in cells?". They'd phrase it in questions which make you think about what it's asking you for and whatever you get wrong you can learn there and then - within ten minutes you can cover exam technique, what you do and don't know, and how to improve on a topic, whereas going through it again in a lesson would only waste time. I'm sincerely hoping I'm not missing what point you're trying to make, I'm just a tad confused? Are you suggesting teachers don't teach anymore and make you teach yourself? If that's the case this part was completely irrelevant but yeah. idk what you mean

I was trying to relay the uniform issue to a wider problem with the education system that I have huge problems with. Didn’t wanna go too deep since debates here never go anywhere and usually just end in arguments and frustration but w/e

I think the education system in this country is awful. I think the philosophy behind the education system is abhorrent. I think the implementation of it is even worse. I think uniform plays into some of the major toxicity in the institutionalisation philosophy that plagues pretty much all public schools, and any ounce of benifit from uniforms is trivialised by the fact that they aren’t enforced in college and uni for some reason lol.

I can understand my point about lessons and exam prep not going over well, maybe you didn’t have similar experiences? The teaching at my school was awful and it ironically didn’t have much to do with the actual teachers. A lot of the teachers were being pressured by higher ups to skip units to start exam prep, continually give out and mark past papers and homework instead of plan lessons, ignore entire syllabuses because they ‘probably won’t be in this years exam’ . Less engaging with a lesson and more copying out of books over and over and doing hundreds of past papers, you know? I vented about this on another forum and a lot of people my age had similar experiences, some even worse cases of the school being really desperate for certain grade quotas. One apparently had the maths teacher who looked at the exam of that year like a week before they had to do it, and told the students what to study for that week knowing what will be in it lol, and nobody cared or complained because they all did really well.

I do think there are some good schools out there, but for the most part it just seems to me that the people that work at these places are more bothered about numbers than the well-being and education of the thousands of students who go there, and nobody with any power ever bothers questioning it because of the good grades and good ofsted meetings