[Withano]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Depends. There have been people whose personalities I've been drawn to, but only in a "it'd be cool to be his/her friend" kind of way, and also people I've not found physically/sexually attractive, but would date due to their personalities. And guess what - both these things are experienced by almost everyone!

You deliberately skirting around simple questions sort of suggests that you understand? Just reiterating one more time, you’re close, I can feel it.

If person A is sexually attracted to men and women, and person B is not sexually attracted to either of these gender.. they obviously do not share the same sexuality.

Person A might go on to date Bob and Carole, and person B might go on to date both of these people afterwards... Person A and person B will still have different sexualities. One is sexually attracted to men and women, the other is not.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Withano

If person A is sexually attracted to men and women, and person B is not sexually attracted to either of these gender.. they obviously do not share the same sexuality.

If someone is attracted to the opposite sex they are heterosexual

If someone is attracted to the same sex they are homosexual

If someone is attracted to either they are bisexual

If someone is NEVER attracted to either, they are asexual

If someone CAN be attracted to either, based on personality over looks... they are still bisexual.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

If someone is attracted to the opposite sex they are heterosexual

If someone is attracted to the same sex they are homosexual

If someone is attracted to either they are bisexual

If someone is NEVER attracted to either, they are asexual

If someone CAN be attracted to either, based on personality over looks... they are still bisexual.

If we had to only have four adjectives, I would agree. A sexual attraction to a man is very different to an attraction to a man otherwise asexuality wouldnt be a thing either (they date too and can also be attracted to men)

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

If someone is attracted to the opposite sex they are heterosexual

If someone is attracted to the same sex they are homosexual

If someone is attracted to either they are bisexual

If someone is NEVER attracted to either, they are asexual

If someone CAN be attracted to either, based on personality over looks... they are still bisexual.

And THAT is ****ing THAT. So THERE. The End, so move along now everybody the show is over.

Joking aside, T.S. - I TOTALLY agree with you and I really have tried to see this from all the perspectives posted on this thread, but I still come back to what you have just posted above.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Withano

You deliberately skirting around simple questions sort of suggests that you understand? Just reiterating one more time, you’re close, I can feel it.

If person A is sexually attracted to men and women, and person B is not sexually attracted to either of these gender.. they obviously do not share the same sexuality.

Person A might go on to date Bob and Carole, and person B might go on to date both of these people afterwards... Person A and person B will still have different sexualities. One is sexually attracted to men and women, the other is not.

How is Person B not bisexual if s/he dates one person of each gender?

[Ant.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

How is Person B not bisexual if s/he dates one person of each gender?

bc he's pansexual

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Withano

If we had to only have four adjectives, I would agree. A sexual attraction to a man is very different to an attraction to a man otherwise asexuality wouldnt be a thing either (they date too)

If someone is attracted to another person in a non-sexual way, they either just like their personality and want to be friends, or the other person is someone they wouldn't find sexually attractive but would date due to their personality. Anyone can overlook appearances to date someone.

Originally Posted by Lilbro

bc he's pansexual

I've still not read anything which makes me think "pansexual" needs its own label though

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

If someone is attracted to another person in a non-sexual way, they either just like their personality and want to be friends, or the other person is someone they wouldn't find sexually attractive but would date due to their personality. Anyone can overlook appearances to date someone.

An male asexual dates a man, then a woman. Is he bi? He, like a pan-guy wasnt sexually attracted to their gender.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Withano

An male asexual dates a man, then a woman. Is he bi? He, like a pan-guy wasnt sexually attracted to their gender.

He's probably a bisexual with a very low sex drive, or just doesn't like penetrative sex for whatever reason.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

He's probably a bisexual with a very low sex drive, or just doesn't like penetrative sex for whatever reason.

Wrong. Asexual people date. Some date exclusively males, some date exclusively females, some date both. All have zero sexual interest in the people they are dating.

I was wrong all along, this was the hurdle you couldnt jump over

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Withano

An male asexual dates a man, then a woman. Is he bi? He, like a pan-guy wasnt sexually attracted to their gender.

I don't really get where you're going with this concept of being "attracted to their gender" though. Who is attracted to gender? I mean, yes, for some people there is a specific gender preference that makes up a PART of their attraction but it's just not accurate to state that it's the core element of attraction.

And then there are people for whom gender is not a relevant component and can equally find themselves attracted to both males and females; or in other words, bisexuality.

I can still only conclude that the term "pansexuality" stems from a misunderstanding that gender IS the core pillar of "normal sexuality"...

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I don't really get where you're going with this concept of being "attracted to their gender" though. Who is attracted to gender? I mean, yes, for some people there is a specific gender preference that makes up a PART of their attraction but it's just not accurate to state that it's the core element of attraction.

And then there are people for whom gender is not a relevant component and can equally find themselves attracted to both males and females; or in other words, bisexuality.

I can still only conclude that the term "pansexuality" stems from a misunderstanding that gender IS the core pillar of "normal sexuality"...

Your argument TS is actually quite confusing, you fully acknowledges that asexuals are not attracted to either gender... well, nor are pan people...

at least oliver claiming that ‘an asexual who dates men and women makes them a low-sex-drive bisexual’ is consistent with everything else hes saying (incorrect pbviously, theyre still asexual.. but consistent with the rest of his arguments). You seem to be zigzagging.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Withano

If we had to only have four adjectives, I would agree. A sexual attraction to a man is very different to an attraction to a man otherwise asexuality wouldnt be a thing either (they date too and can also be attracted to men)

Originally Posted by Withano

Well again Id ask if you think theres a difference between sexual attraction and attraction but you avoided that question like ten minutes ago. Yes or no, is it the same thing?

Originally Posted by Withano

An male asexual dates a man, then a woman. Is he bi? He, like a pan-guy wasnt sexually attracted to their gender.

These posts together...maybe made this 'click'

So basically, pansexuality is being attracted to both sexes, but not being sexually attracted to them. So basically, pansexuals are bi asexuals, for want of a better term?!

Thats the only way this is making any sense to me tbh.

Bisexuals are 'sexually attracted' to either sex.
Pansexuals are 'attracted' to either sex

If this is not what you mean, then I have no idea why you keep bringing up the difference between attraction and sexual attraction.
If this is what you mean, then surely 'pansexual' is the same as 'asexual'?! As no sexual attraction is felt?

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

These posts together...maybe made this 'click'

So basically, pansexuality is being attracted to both sexes, but not being sexually attracted to them. So basically, pansexuals are bi asexuals, for want of a better term?!

Thats the only way this is making any sense to me tbh.

Bisexuals are 'sexually attracted' to either sex.
Pansexuals are 'attracted' to either sex

If this is not what you mean, then I have no idea why you keep bringing up the difference between attraction and sexual attraction.
If this is what you mean, then surely 'pansexual' is the same as 'asexual'?! As no sexual attraction is felt?

Not really the line I was on

Asexuals - zero sexual attraction at all times, but can feel attraction, so will date those they become attracted to

Pansexuals - can feel attraction, which can develop into sexual attraction, but only ever in that order

Bisexuals (and heterosexuals and homosexuals) - can feel sexual attraction before any other form of attraction, that doesnt mean they are incapable of other types of attraction, and doesnt mean they act on their sexual attraction before other forms of attraction even if it does come first. But sexual attraction to people for the way they look is somethig that pans wont experience ever.

Im trying to remember my summary a while back cos i cba to multiquote

Sexual attraction to gender A=no, P=no, B=yes
Sexual attraction to personality A=no, P=yes, B=yes
Attraction to people A=yes*, P=yes, B=yes

*there are some aromantic asexuals, but for the purposes of trying to make this clearer...!

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

How is Person B not bisexual if s/he dates one person of each gender?

Well again Id ask if you think theres a difference between sexual attraction and attraction but you avoided that question like ten minutes ago. Yes or no, is it the same thing?

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Withano

Well again Id ask if you think theres a difference between sexual attraction and attraction but you avoided that question like ten minutes ago. Yes or no, is it the same thing?

Depends on the context - you might want to be friends with someone and nothing more, and label this as a "non-romantic attraction"
You might not fancy someone's looks, but want to date them for their personality. You'd not be sexually attracted to them, but you're attracted to them due to their mind.
Both of the above can apply to any sexuality.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Depends on the context - you might want to be friends with someone and nothing more, and label this as a "non-romantic attraction"
You might not fancy someone's looks, but want to date them for their personality. You'd not be sexually attracted to them, but you're attracted to them due to their mind.
Both of the above can apply to any sexuality.

But if person A has and does experience sexual attraction to gender.. and person B hasnt and doesnt experience sexual attraction to gender.. they have two very different sexualities. That is the core piece you are missing... yes people like personality in a partner. Thats not evidence pansexuality doesnt exist lol.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Withano

But if person A has and does experience sexual attraction to gender.. and person B hasnt and doesnt experience sexual attraction to gender.. they have two very different sexualities. That is the core piece you are missing... yes people like personality in a partner. Thats not evidence pansexuality doesnt exist lol.

How do bi people have an "attraction to gender" when they're willing to date both genders?

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

How do bi people have an "attraction to gender" when they're willing to date both genders?

Their attraction to gender is why they are willing to date both genders. A straight mans attraction to females is why he would be willing to date one gender.
A pan (and an asexual) isnt attracted to gender.. they may both be willing to date both genders, but that doesnt make them bi.