[Brillopad]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44672939

Disgusting. Child abuse in the name of religion. It always breaks my heart when these poor girls who are nothing but children get offered up to dirty old men/paedeos under the guise of ‘marriage’ In this modern world this needs to stop.

[Niamh.]

It's sickening, arranged marriages in general are but obviously ones when the bride is child are particularly disgusting

[kirklancaster]

I agree with Brillopad and Niamh - this horrific and vile practice needs totally eradicating by ALL countries.

Those 'men' who are part of this disgusting and evil 'custom' KNOW that it is morally wrong and depraved to 'marry' a child no matter what is permissible under any Law or archaic Religious 'recruitment-device' and they are nothing more than ****ing paedophiles.

[Maru]

The FLDS practice this. Polygamist religion that married out all their child brides and was completely cut off from the outside world... well, the "unaware" folk were kept out of the loop... the Elders secretly benefited modern life and the numerous child welfare paychecks

I guess Mormonism is technically an American religion so maybe it's not talked about there? I think they're basically Christianity but with a modern prophet, but they used to practice polygamy in the States...

[bots]

in this particular instance it looks like the groom was breaking the law of the country, so he will likely get put away.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

in this particular instance it looks like the groom was breaking the law of the country, so he will likely get put away.

Unfortunately not - although they crimilized sex crimes against chilfpdren they didn’t actually crimilize child marriage according to the article. Which of course is ridiculous as child marriage amounts to the same.

[user104658]

It is awful, and I do think though that it's also worth remembering that it's not just the girls who are forced into these things. Many of the young men are pressured into it by their parents / expected to do it and will be thrown out on the streets if they don't comply, often in places where there's no support for people who are cast out by their family, or they're just "shamed" for it.

I mean it's not really that foreign a concept here in Britain, is it? Obviously she wasn't a child bride (though she was much younger than him...) - but Charles was essentially forced to marry Diana. He didn't want to, he loved someone else, but he was "paired off" with someone who the Royals at the time believed better fit the image. It is exactly the same thing as any other "arranged" religious marriage. Though again obviously different in that she wasn't a child.

But yes it is time for the entire practice to stop. It's also just worth recognising that it hasn't always been specific to "certain cultures" and has been commonplace in pretty much every country throughout history, with teenage girl brides married off to men in their 30's right here in the UK as recently as the late Victorian era.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It is awful, and I do think though that it's also worth remembering that it's not just the girls who are forced into these things. Many of the young men are pressured into it by their parents / expected to do it and will be thrown out on the streets if they don't comply, often in places where there's no support for people who are cast out by their family, or they're just "shamed" for it.

I mean it's not really that foreign a concept here in Britain, is it? Obviously she wasn't a child bride (though she was much younger than him...) - but Charles was essentially forced to marry Diana. He didn't want to, he loved someone else, but he was "paired off" with someone who the Royals at the time believed better fit the image. It is exactly the same thing as any other "arranged" religious marriage. Though again obviously different in that she wasn't a child.

But yes it is time for the entire practice to stop. It's also just worth recognising that it hasn't always been specific to "certain cultures" and has been commonplace in pretty much every country throughout history, with teenage girl brides married off to men in their 30's right here in the UK as recently as the late Victorian era.

Regarding last paragraph - we can’t change the past and can only change what is happening now. It is a vile practice and many people practising it today don’t have the excuse of ignorance.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Regarding last paragraph - we can’t change the past and can only change what is happening now. It is a vile practice and many people practising it today don’t have the excuse of ignorance.

True, but it's easier to tackle by acknowledging that it DID happen everywhere and mostly HAS been stopped, rather than trying to pretend that our own hands are clean whilst "weird other cultures" do terrible things. It stops the dialogue dead in its tracks and makes such cultures MORE insular and resistant to change.

In other words it's better to say "Hey, we used to do that too but we've moved on and realised that it's not a good thing, and you can too", than "UGH we would NEVER do such disgusting things and you dirty folks must become more like us!"

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

True, but it's easier to tackle by acknowledging that it DID happen everywhere and mostly HAS been stopped, rather than trying to pretend that our own hands are clean whilst "weird other cultures" do terrible things. It stops the dialogue dead in its tracks and makes such cultures MORE insular and resistant to change.

In other words it's better to say "Hey, we used to do that too but we've moved on and realised that it's not a good thing, and you can too", than "UGH we would NEVER do such disgusting things and you dirty folks must become more like us!"

Very true

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

True, but it's easier to tackle by acknowledging that it DID happen everywhere and mostly HAS been stopped, rather than trying to pretend that our own hands are clean whilst "weird other cultures" do terrible things. It stops the dialogue dead in its tracks and makes such cultures MORE insular and resistant to change.

In other words it's better to say "Hey, we used to do that too but we've moved on and realised that it's not a good thing, and you can too", than "UGH we would NEVER do such disgusting things and you dirty folks must become more like us!"

I think most agree that so-called ‘men’ of 40 from whatever time, culture or background are DIRTY - that is very much the point. Such men have hidden behind the excuse of ‘ignorance’ for far too long. How long do we dawdle along being polite about it before we say enough is enough!

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

True, but it's easier to tackle by acknowledging that it DID happen everywhere and mostly HAS been stopped, rather than trying to pretend that our own hands are clean whilst "weird other cultures" do terrible things. It stops the dialogue dead in its tracks and makes such cultures MORE insular and resistant to change.

In other words it's better to say "Hey, we used to do that too but we've moved on and realised that it's not a good thing, and you can too", than "UGH we would NEVER do such disgusting things and you dirty folks must become more like us!"

It's already easy to tackle; stop pandering to P.C. and just say; "Not In OUR Country under OUR laws" - whichever civilised country around the globe that happens to be.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

It's already easy to tackle; stop pandering to P.C. and just say; "Not In OUR Country under OUR laws" - whichever civilised country around the globe that happens to be.

You're right kirk, I forgot that if you make something illegal it stops happening.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Its very sad that as a nation we have evolved out of the grips of superstition and the cults of churches only to mass import a whole swathe of people who are still very much in its grip

and we happily build them places to go and celebrate this ignorance

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

You're right kirk, I forgot that if you make something illegal it stops happening.

There are stronger powers/punishments to deal with it if crimiinaluzed as it should be.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

You're right kirk, I forgot that if you make something illegal it stops happening.

Don't start. We both know it doesn't but at least it gives us the ability to punish the filthy bastards who decide to carry on with the practice and it does give some protection to those little girls and affords any sympathetic relatives the opportunity to get official help.

[Kizzy]

I'd say as per religion and culture are being intertwined. maybe child brides are culturally the norm in certain cultures, but is it written religious text?...

This is where multiculturalism falls a bit flat, as has been said we had in the past these issues and socially reformed to protect children which is why it is such an unacceptable clash to see cultures who haven't quite accepted this.
It should NEVER be seen as acceptable here.

I have no issue with religious observance, however cultures and laws that counter our rights, laws and protections no.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Don't start. We both know it doesn't but at least it gives us the ability to punish the filthy bastards who decide to carry on with the practice and it does give some protection to those little girls and affords any sympathetic relatives the opportunity to get official help.

But surely it is already illegal and still happens? To be honest... Regardless of legality, and though its obviously not AS bad, it still leaves a sour taste when 30+ year olds are marrying 16 year olds (with family pressure) which is of course totally legal. It has to be tackled at a cultural level, as well as a legal level, or its pointless.

As has been said "forced marriages" are wrong even when it's not children who are the victims of it, and how can you tackle that legally? Usually in the west it's not literal force or the threat of violence - its simple obedience to the authority of parents, threats of being disowned by the family, shamed, etc. and you can't legislate against those things. Yes it's abhorrent for any parent to disown and shame their young adult offspring for not being obedient - but it's impossible to make it illegal. So people will legally agree to arranged marriage, just like ol' Prince Charles did, out of duty... Even though if you really look at it, it's still forced.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

But surely it is already illegal and still happens? To be honest... Regardless of legality, and though its obviously not AS bad, it still leaves a sour taste when 30+ year olds are marrying 16 year olds (with family pressure) which is of course totally legal. It has to be tackled at a cultural level, as well as a legal level, or its pointless.

As has been said "forced marriages" are wrong even when it's not children who are the victims of it, and how can you tackle that legally? Usually in the west it's not literal force or the threat of violence - its simple obedience to the authority of parents, threats of being disowned by the family, shamed, etc. and you can't legislate against those things. Yes it's abhorrent for any parent to disown and shame their young adult offspring for not being obedient - but it's impossible to make it illegal. So people will legally agree to arranged marriage, just like ol' Prince Charles did, out of duty... Even though if you really look at it, it's still forced.

Culture is just as big an excuse - oh well it’s just their culture. No it’s not - simple decency, intelligence and humanity (a word thrown around a lot lately by some) should tell most people it’s wrong. You shouldn’t need to be told that by anyone whatever your culture.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

It's sickening, arranged marriages in general are but obviously ones when the bride is child are particularly disgusting

Arranged marriages between adults is one thing and some of these arranged marriages between ADULTS even work out as both families are friends ,it's still weird but at least they're adults ( and I'm talking about the ones who are NOT forced into it) .

But the child brides is child abuse 100% and it has nothing to do with religion and they're once again abusing their power and it's disgusting & disturbing and no amount of cultural excuses can condone paedophilia .

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I'd say as per religion and culture are being intertwined. maybe child brides are culturally the norm in certain cultures, but is it written religious text?...

This is where multiculturalism falls a bit flat, as has been said we had in the past these issues and socially reformed to protect children which is why it is such an unacceptable clash to see cultures who haven't quite accepted this.
It should NEVER be seen as acceptable here.

I have no issue with religious observance, however cultures and laws that counter our rights, laws and protections no.

Great post, Kizzy.

[Livia]

Child brides, honour killings, FGM... just some of the cultural norms that are against the law in this country, but that people are frightened of prosecuting for fear of offence. The girls who suffer these appalling crimes are being let down by this country in much the same way that the young girls in Rotherham were let down. A crime is a crime, regardless of the faith, colour or background of the perpetrator. Let's hope one day it'll be that simple.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

It's sickening, arranged marriages in general are but obviously ones when the bride is child are particularly disgusting

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Livia

Child brides, honour killings, FGM... just some of the cultural norms that are against the law in this country, but that people are frightened of prosecuting for fear of offence. The girls who suffer these appalling crimes are being let down by this country in much the same way that the young girls in Rotherham were let down. A crime is a crime, regardless of the faith, colour or background of the perpetrator. Let's hope one day it'll be that simple.

All true - Welcome Back, Liv.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

All true - Welcome Back, Liv.

Thanks Kirk. I've been busy... nice to be back.