[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Not quite, but I'd have to ask Kellie.

Explain?

Originally Posted by Withano

Wrong, but that is helpful, I was wondering why we were going around in circles.

Explain?

Originally Posted by Alf

Has Kellie had a full transition? change of genitalia is what I mean and what ever hormone things they take?

Makes no difference, you can't change your biological sex, even if your penis is inverted.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Explain?

Explain?

Makes no difference, you can't change your biological sex, even if your penis is inverted.

Biological sex isn’t at all relevant to a transpersons gender or current sex, so it is a beyond-stupid way to determine a label for somebody. Fortunately I don’t know anybody who does this apart from you lol.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Withano

Biological sex isn’t at all relevant to a transpersons gender or current sex, so it is a beyond-stupid way to determine a label for somebody. Fortunately I don’t know anybody who does this apart from you lol.

Their current sex is their birth sex. And it is relevant in a medical sense - a transwoman will still have her prostate checked, and be recommended to check her nuts if they're still there. But in a social sense, it shouldn't be relevant.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Their current sex is their birth sex. And it is relevant in a medical sense - a transwoman will still have her prostate checked, and be recommended to check her nuts if they're still there. But in a social sense, it shouldn't be relevant.

So you want to refer to Kellie as a male because she gets her prostate checked during medical exams. Ok Oliver.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Withano

So you want to refer to Kellie as a male because she gets her prostate checked during medical exams. Ok Oliver.

She is biologically, yes. But she's a transwoman, so she'll get her breasts checked too.

[Marsh.]

I'm so glad we're discussing Kellie Maloney's physical examinations.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

She is biologically, yes. But she's a transwoman, so she'll get her breasts checked too.

Originally Posted by Withano

Biological sex isn’t at all relevant to a transpersons gender or current sex, so it is a beyond-stupid way to determine a label for somebody. Fortunately I don’t know anybody who does this apart from you lol.

Yes, I understand your incoherent thought process somehow, i dont care for it, it will never be helpful in these discussions

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Withano

Yes, I understand your incoherent thought process somehow, i dont care for it, it will never be helpful in these discussions

And what is your "thought" process?

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

And what is your "thought" process?

...I’ve been pretty vocal in this thread, you can read through it.

I don't think our discussion can go much further though, I understand why you wouldnt need to use the word ‘cis’ with a thought process like yours..

it’s not really relevant to any real life situation though, and I dont really fancy discussing a hypothetical scenario based on the idea that other people use pronouns the way that you do, because they do not.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Withano

...I’ve been pretty vocal in this thread, you can read through it.

I don't think our discussion can go much further though, I understand why you wouldnt need to use the word ‘cis’ with a thought process like yours..

it’s not really relevant to any real life situation though, and I dont really fancy discussing a hypothetical scenario based on the idea that other people use pronouns the way that you do, because they do not.

my thought process is just that your biological sex is defined at birth, and there's a difference between women and transwomen. I really don't see what's wrong with that, all I've heard in opposition is "transwomen are women!!11"

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Pot, kettle.

Patronising mysogyny that love when used to put a woman in her place. You aren't doing much in support of transgender people while practising casual sexism. You must be so proud.

.

The gist I am getting is we are happy to be called cis men ergo everyone else must follow our lead...I am not a sheep and neither are most people on this thread

oh and by the way you can just call yourself a woman but expect to be abused for it, but just suck that one up love

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Cherie

.

The gist I am getting is we are happy to be called cis men ergo everyone else must follow our lead...I am not a sheep and neither are most people on this thread

oh and by the way you can just call yourself a woman but expect to be abused for it, but just suck that one up love

I mean. Even if I didn't want to be called cismale, I would still be a cismale because I don't get to dictate the definitions of words.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Withano

I mean. Even if I didn't want to be called cismale, I would still be a cismale because I don't get to dictate the definitions of words.

but its only a definition recently introduced by a minority group and therefore is meaningless in terms of its general applicability.

Let's take the whole thing to its logical conclusion. If the majority of men/women have to start puting cis before everthing then those transitioned will still not be able to assign that label to themselves and so will be seen as an excluded group again ... it just makes zero logical sense

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

but its only a definition recently introduced by a minority group and therefore is meaningless in terms of its general applicability.

Let's take the whole thing to its logical conclusion. If the majority of men/women have to start puting cis before everthing then those transitioned will still not be able to assign that label to themselves and so will be seen as an excluded group again ... it just makes zero logical sense

And just to add once again, the only time I've seen the word "cis" used besides on discussions here has been in a negative way which is why so many women (because it's pretty much always transgender women using it to insult women) are against it being used to describe them. The lack of understanding from where women are coming from here is a bit disappointing tbqh.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

And just to add once again, the only time I've seen the word "cis" used besides on discussions here has been in a negative way which is why so many women (because it's pretty much always transgender women using it to insult women) are against it being used to describe them. The lack of understanding from where women are coming from here is a bit disappointing tbqh.

Not really unexpected in my view, the so called all encompassing, inclusive enlighted generation only want to extend to these qualities to certain sections of society, there is zero empathy for anyone who doesn't agree with their view or very little inclination to understand an alternative view. I have no issue with transitioned men being called women but I am damned if I will adopt a prefix to describe myself because a trans person wants me to.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

And just to add once again, the only time I've seen the word "cis" used besides on discussions here has been in a negative way which is why so many women (because it's pretty much always transgender women using it to insult women) are against it being used to describe them. The lack of understanding from where women are coming from here is a bit disappointing tbqh.

in fact, i would argue that forcing a majority to indicate clearly they are of a particular type increases the discriminatory affect on the minority group, rather than normalising things

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Cherie

.

The gist I am getting is we are happy to be called cis men ergo everyone else must follow our lead...I am not a sheep and neither are most people on this thread

oh and by the way you can just call yourself a woman but expect to be abused for it, but just suck that one up love

I think your gist is spot on. What glares at me in these threads is how out of touch some men really are with equality. They think they are being trendy and standing up for the oppressed while at the same time stamping on the gender that has been oppressed for generations.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Withano

I mean. Even if I didn't want to be called cismale, I would still be a cismale because I don't get to dictate the definitions of words.

The word cis was made up as a terminology by a biologist in 1996. Get over it and grow a clue. I've been a woman longer than that and my mother and grandmother before me.

[Niamh.]

Right deleted some posts in here, lets all try to make an effort to stick to the actual subject please

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

No, because she is a woman and a transwoman
And you are a woman and a ciswoman

Kellys transfriend Jane may identify as woman, but if I wanted to talk about Kelly and Jane and not you, I would have to use the word trans, and if I wanted to talk about you and not Jane or Kelly, I would have to use the word cis. (Regarding its a discussion directly relating to genders as a group).

Its just a helpful little prefix that separates you from Jane should we need to use it.

Typical - Transwomen don't want to be called by a certain name ie man but they are quite happy to force a certain name ie cis onto women. Biggest load of hypocrites that every walked this earth.

You are no better by calling women on here cis women when they have made it perfectly clear they reject that name. It isn't a real name and neither you or anyone else can force it on another person who rejects it unless you are just as big a hypocrite.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Typical - Transwomen don't want to be called by a certain name ie man but they are quite happy to force a certain name ie cis onto women. Biggest load of hypocrites that every walked this earth.

You are no better by calling women on here cis women when they have made it perfectly clear they reject that name. It isn't a real name and neither you or anyone else can force it on another person who rejects it unless you are just as big a hypocrite.

I see I wasn't the only one who noticed that particular goading.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

in fact, i would argue that forcing a majority to indicate clearly they are of a particular type increases the discriminatory affect on the minority group, rather than normalising things

You are a very smart guy Bots.

[bots]

Originally Posted by jaxie

You are a very smart guy Bots.

can you imagine the uproar, if people were required to say things like .... not jewish, not muslim etc etc etc .... which is exactly what this cis thing is doing

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

can you imagine the uproar, if people were required to say things like .... not jewish, not muslim etc etc etc .... which is exactly what this cis thing is doing

Exactly right and if we don't speak up we are putting the rights of women back about 50 years. It's absolutely insulting that women are expected to just suck it up. Not having it.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

but its only a definition recently introduced by a minority group and therefore is meaningless in terms of its general applicability.

Let's take the whole thing to its logical conclusion. If the majority of men/women have to start puting cis before everthing then those transitioned will still not be able to assign that label to themselves and so will be seen as an excluded group again ... it just makes zero logical sense

Nobody is putting the word cis in a sentence unless it is needed, which is rare.