[Northern Monkey]

One thing’s for sure if Brexit was overturned.People would certainly move away from the 2 main parties.They would need somewhere to turn(Those that didn’t denounce British politics totally and never vote again).
I do think that a few would turn to the new sh1tshow that is UKIP.They would gain more votes for sure but not massively,Not since Gerard Batten took over and recruited Tommy Robinson.UKIP has thrown away all credibility now.
For me,The Tories would split and take along the few Euro skeptics from the other parties and form a new mainstream pro leave party.They would gain traction(more than UKIP) imo.

I don’t think there’d be a massive rise to the far right in this country.I do think it would grow but not hugely.
We rejected the BNP when they were here.
I think that the main consequence would be to deter Brits from engaging in our political system.It would be seen as a joke and disenfranchise most people.
The institution of parliament would lose most of its credibility.It’s doing a good job of that currently by trying every trick in the book(literally) to stop us leaving.When the speaker of the house can’t show neutrality then it doesn’t look good.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

One thing’s for sure if Brexit was overturned.People would certainly move away from the 2 main parties.They would need somewhere to turn(Those that didn’t denounce British politics totally and never vote again).
I do think that a few would turn to the new sh1tshow that is UKIP.They would gain more votes for sure but not massively,Not since Gerard Batten took over and recruited Tommy Robinson.UKIP has thrown away all credibility now.
For me,The Tories would split and take along the few Euro skeptics from the other parties and form a new mainstream pro leave party.They would gain traction(more than UKIP) imo.

I don’t think there’d be a massive rise to the far right in this country.I do think it would grow but not hugely.
We rejected the BNP when they were here.
I think that the main consequence would be to deter Brits from engaging in our political system.It would be seen as a joke and disenfranchise most people.
The institution of parliament would lose most of its credibility.It’s doing a good job of that currently by trying every trick in the book(literally) to stop us leaving.When the speaker of the house can’t show neutrality then it doesn’t look good.

Yes Good Points NM
it is small amount.

[lime]

Originally Posted by Alf

These aren't the extreme right, these are working class people who have one weapon, their vote. But their vote is not being accepted. Which leaves them with nothing, and they're angry about it.

I've already said that they are not going about it in the right way, although I'm with them on the principle of why they are there.

These are working class people who are seeing their only weapon being taken away from them, and they're scared and nobody is listening to them, and they're lashing out.

They are not far-right or fascists.

Oh Bless Alf ..Do you not get that is on the left who are working class ?.
your vote is accepted,...Acccept mine

[lime]

Just for my own record..When did folk describe the far right as extreme right ?

[Wizard.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Fake news. France has a history of violent protest; they've had several riots and incidents of civil unrest per decade since the late 1800's. It's a totally different culture. If Brexit is blocked we'll have a few OAP's grumbling while they buy their porridge, milk and Daily Mail in the morning. They'll never riot, because if they try they'll all break their hips.

That's just a very ignorant and naive statement.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Riley.

That's just a very ignorant and naive statement.

It isn't, it's factual. Have a look at civil unrest in France over the years; the current riots are not particularly unusual.

And majority Brexit voters were over 50 and an even higher percentage over 65.

It's not a guess or an assumption; the figures are available.




Old, uneducated Tories. It's not a guess, it's not ignorant or naive, it is statistical fact.


If Brexit is cancelled, 50 - 70+ year olds are not going to be rioting in the streets. The idea is ludicrous. They will grumble that it's "****ing typical" to be ignored by politicians, and go on with their day. If there's any rioting, it'll be from groups who are motivated by the "controlling the borders" xenophobic aspect of the Brexit vote, and frankly, worrying about their reaction shouldn't be a factor in any decision made... because they're going to kick off anyway when we've full Brexited and immigration from Asia, Africa and the Middle East inevitably increases instead of going down as they are hoping.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by lime

Just for my own record..When did folk describe the far right as extreme right ?

Post number 59 of this thread, 3rd line down.

Anything else?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It isn't, it's factual. Have a look at civil unrest in France over the years; the current riots are not particularly unusual.

And majority Brexit voters were over 50 and an even higher percentage over 65.

It's not a guess or an assumption; the figures are available.




Old, uneducated Tories. It's not a guess, it's not ignorant or naive, it is statistical fact.


If Brexit is cancelled, 50 - 70+ year olds are not going to be rioting in the streets. The idea is ludicrous. They will grumble that it's "****ing typical" to be ignored by politicians, and go on with their day. If there's any rioting, it'll be from groups who are motivated by the "controlling the borders" xenophobic aspect of the Brexit vote, and frankly, worrying about their reaction shouldn't be a factor in any decision made... because they're going to kick off anyway when we've full Brexited and immigration from Asia, Africa and the Middle East inevitably increases instead of going down as they are hoping.

You have to wonder about that 5% of UKIP voters!

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Alf

Listen, you don't win the argument by bringing up Jo Cox, and if you continue to use her death for political gain, then people are just going to tell you where you can stick Jo Cox. She was murdered by one low-life scum, not 17.4m people who want to leave a union. You don't own her murder, so stop using her death to think you can win the argument.You can't win it with that against me.

'Stop using an argument I can't win against!'

She was murdered by a right wing terrorist, pretty much everyone can agree to that but it's telling you're not calling him that. You can't just disallow a point because you don't like it, argue against it instead.

Also I'm not saying 17.4 million people killed her, again, your tribalism is showing. I've said before that both brexiteers and the right need to disavow their extreme elements but you keep, conveniently so, ignoring that.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by James

The problem with a second referendum is that it is being proposed by people that supported remain before and still do. It's not being proposed by people that supported leave before and have now changed their minds. Those people are just going to think that the first vote didn't count.

It would be better for remain campaigners and MPs to get behind a compromise that still delivers a version of Brexit, whether it is this deal, or if that isn't passed, a Norway-type deal.

It won't please everyone, but that is unavoidable.

I think you're completely wrong there.

I think there's plenty of people who voted Leave who at the time, spurred on by false promises from the brexit side who have rethought their position now that they are faced with the choice of a bad deal or a no deal exit which will be bad for everyone.

If people still feel the same way as they did before then the result won't change, the brexit side only want to block another vote because they don't think they'll win now people are faced with the ramifications of what brexit will entail. Not very democratic, is it?

People are allowed to change their minds, I personally think people should be held to their mistakes in the choices they make but it would be undemocratic to not allow a vote just because one side believes they won't win again.

If the tide has changed, I think expecting the new majority to be silent and accept a compromise that's no longer the will of the people is wrong and hypocritical.

The only real democratic option is another vote, if people still want brexit, we leave with no deal since that deal won't ever be accepted and if people change their mind then they change their mind as is their democratic prerogative. One final vote now that we aren't voting on possibilities but real options makes the most sense.

If people's belief in Brexit is as strong as brexiteers have you believe than they have nothing to fear from the democratic process.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

'Stop using an argument I can't win against!'

She was murdered by a right wing terrorist, pretty much everyone can agree to that but it's telling you're not calling him that. You can't just disallow a point because you don't like it, argue against it instead.

Also I'm not saying 17.4 million people killed her, again, your tribalism is showing. I've said before that both brexiteers and the right need to disavow their extreme elements but you keep, conveniently so, ignoring that.

They only look extreme to you, so I don't know who you want me to disavow?

Are you going to disavow Owen Jones who looks extreme to me?

Thursday night, Owen Jones was given a platform on BBC to tell the nation that Tommy Robinson is against all Muslims, Tommy is not against all Muslims, he just speaks out about the ones who commit anus crimes, like rape, fgm, terrorism ect. What's wrong with that? and why is nobody challenging Owen Jones on his lies.

The last general election proved that the far-right is not even close to being relevant, how many seats in Parliament do they have?

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Alf

They only look extreme to you, so I don't know who you want me to disavow?

Are you going to disavow Owen Jones who looks extreme to me?

Thursday night, Owen Jones was given a platform on BBC to tell the nation that Tommy Robinson is against all Muslims, Tommy is not against all Muslims, he just speaks out about the ones who commit anus crimes, like rape, fgm, terrorism ect. What's wrong with that? and why is nobody challenging Owen Jones on his lies.

The last general election proved that the far-right is not even close to being relevant, how many seats in Parliament do they have?

Owen Jones is a twat and Tommy Robinson is also a massive twat, both of which lie and spread falsities for the sake of their agenda.

Trying to come at me using the left won't really work though, I don't consider myself part of the left any more. It's becoming as warped as the right in several respects.

[Oliver_W]

No-one who can comprehend what they say like Tommy Robinson or Owen Jones, using either to represent "their side" is just pointless.

[lime]

Originally Posted by Alf

Post number 59 of this thread, 3rd line down.

Anything else?

Checekd it Wannashag ...but it doesnt explain to me how the far right is now the extreme right?

[lime]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

No-one who can comprehend what they say like Tommy Robinson or Owen Jones, using either to represent "their side" is just pointless.

Oh look..Here's Olliver that thinks babies drowing is good

[Alf]

Originally Posted by lime

Checekd it Wannashag ...but it doesnt explain to me how the far right is now the extreme right?

That's because you're dumb.

[lime]

Originally Posted by Alf

That's because you're dumb.

intelligent in put lad

[arista]

Originally Posted by Alf

That's because you're dumb.

He is not dumb


He is clever

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by lime

Oh look..Here's Olliver that thinks babies drowing is good

And a spurious nonsequitor to you too.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

You have to wonder about that 5% of UKIP voters!

.... ... Labour spies

[Oliver_W]

I don't think at this point trying to stop Brexit would cause a far right surge - I think most of the apparent rises in the far right across Europe is mostly caused by the migration crisis not being averted efficiently, so people are voting for those they believe will sort it out. Remaining in a trade union isn't really comparable to what some on the continent are facing, so I doubt it would lead to similar results.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

I don't think at this point trying to stop Brexit would cause a far right surge - I think most of the apparent rises in the far right across Europe is mostly caused by the migration crisis not being averted efficiently, so people are voting for those they believe will sort it out. Remaining in a trade union isn't really comparable to what some on the continent are facing, so I doubt it would lead to similar results.

Indeed, and I personally believe such a "surge" is actually more likely post-Brexit because there will be a decline in white European immigration (which those on the further right don't actually care about) and a corresponding INCREASE in immigration from further afield (which those people currently are under the illusion will be halted or stopped through Brexit).

Honestly I think there is a section of society that is going to be very, VERY upset in 5 years time when they start to realise that Brexit didn't fulfil their immigration wishes in the slightest.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Indeed, and I personally believe such a "surge" is actually more likely post-Brexit because there will be a decline in white European immigration (which those on the further right don't actually care about) and a corresponding INCREASE in immigration from further afield (which those people currently are under the illusion will be halted or stopped through Brexit).

Honestly I think there is a section of society that is going to be very, VERY upset in 5 years time when they start to realise that Brexit didn't fulfil their immigration wishes in the slightest.

Yeah, the chain of events won't be a)no Brexit b)far right rises, but a)any form of (no/) deal which compromises our borders b)more undesirable immigration c)far right rises.

[Nicky91]

of course majority of old people chose to leave, quite selfish of them since they aren't around on this world for that long anymore, unlike the youth who voted to remain


might seem rude this post from me, but facts are facts


poor youth in UK who wanted to remain who must now be forced to live in a brexit uk

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Yeah, the chain of events won't be a)no Brexit b)far right rises, but a)any form of (no/) deal which compromises our borders b)more undesirable immigration c)far right rises.

The borders don't even need to be "compromised", there will simply be more legal migration of ethnic minorities and when it comes right down to it, for many Brexit voters that's the real problem (the "erosion of British culture", as they see it) and not the legality of migration.

Economically, the country cannot and will not have vastly reduced migration numbers. We have an ageing population, it just isn't possible to dramatically reduce net migration. Leaving the EU will (almost certainly) reduce the number of European migrants and thus the "gap" will be filled with mostly Middle Eastern, Indian/Pakistani and African migrants. You can almost hear the chorus of "This ain't wot I Brexitted for!!" already.