[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

As far as I can tell the only people who DO have a problem with any of it are straight women .

I mean I get it, it's fear-based, on the notion that they might somehow be in danger but honestly since when did we start structuring our lives and public services around people being worried about hypothetical situations? I'm not saying that it doesn't matter that people are afraid, but surely we have to base things on what's actually rational.

That's because having female only spaces invaded by penises only affects women. And actually, I'm not any surer than you are that lesbians are okay with it.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

That's because having female only spaces invaded by penises only affects women. And actually, I'm not any surer than you are that lesbians are okay with it.

And disallowing it only affects trans women, so why would the rights of one demographic automatically trump the rights of another? Especially as it seems that it's a minority of women who are actually uncomfortable with it, with the majority not actually caring much either way.

The argument seems to be that it's a privacy / comfort / dignity thing but that should be the default in any hospital setting. Certainly it shouldn't be assumed that these things are less important in a same-gendered situation, there are plenty of people who want privacy regardless, and the idea that "it doesn't matter because it's just other folks of the same gender" is wildly outdated.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

And disallowing it only affects trans women, so why would the rights of one demographic automatically trump the rights of another? Especially as it seems that it's a minority of women who are actually uncomfortable with it, with the majority not actually caring much either way.

The argument seems to be that it's a privacy / comfort / dignity thing but that should be the default in any hospital setting. Certainly it shouldn't be assumed that these things are less important in a same-gendered situation, there are plenty of people who want privacy regardless, and the idea that "it doesn't matter because it's just other folks of the same gender" is wildly outdated.

Yeah, why, after centuries of oppression, should women have a say about their own safety, because it might upset a man who, after all the privileges of being raised male, identifies as a woman.

This doesn't affect trans women at all. Trans women in the process of transitioning who have had or will have surgery... I have no problem with them and would be happy to share a changing room, a toilet, a ward...

Men who "identify" as women but have no interest in transitioning, they should be put in a ward where everyone else has a penis too.

And incidentally, when it comes to women's rights, I'm not comfortable with anyone with a penis changing the rules.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Livia

Yeah, why, after centuries of oppression, should women have a say about their own safety, because it might upset a man who, after all the privileges of being raised male, identifies as a woman.

This doesn't affect trans women at all. Trans women in the process of transitioning who have had or will have surgery... I have no problem with them and would be happy to share a changing room, a toilet, a ward...

Men who "identify" as women but have no interest in transitioning, they should be put in a ward where everyone else has a penis too.

And incidentally, when it comes to women's rights, I'm not comfortable with anyone with a penis changing the rules.

I’m pretty sure a penis has put a smile on your face more than once.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

I’m pretty sure a penis has put a smile on your face more than once.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Well some of is men are are more than a penis

[Livia]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

I’m pretty sure a penis has put a smile on your face more than once.

That's just the level of comment I would expect from you.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Livia

That's just the level of comment I would expect from you.

Well you started throwing penises around so I had to reply with something on the the same par.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

Yeah, why, after centuries of oppression, should women have a say about their own safety, because it might upset a man who, after all the privileges of being raised male, identifies as a woman.

This doesn't affect trans women at all. Trans women in the process of transitioning who have had or will have surgery... I have no problem with them and would be happy to share a changing room, a toilet, a ward...

Men who "identify" as women but have no interest in transitioning, they should be put in a ward where everyone else has a penis too.

And incidentally, when it comes to women's rights, I'm not comfortable with anyone with a penis changing the rules.

Why on earth would a transwoman make you feel unsafe?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Why on earth would a transwoman make you feel unsafe?

Where have I said that? Didn't you read what I said, Marshy?

Men who "self identify as women" are not welcome, as far as I'm concerned, in women only spaces.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

Where have I said that? Didn't you read what I said, Marshy?

Yeah, why, after centuries of oppression, should women have a say about their own safety, because it might upset a man who, after all the privileges of being raised male, identifies as a woman.

Why would this particular discussion require you to say this unless you think transgender women being on the same ward as women somehow makes them unsafe?

Originally Posted by Livia

Men who "self identify as women" are not welcome, as far as I'm concerned, in women only spaces.

The "women only spaces" that are open to everyone?