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joeysteele · 11-03-2019, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Well yes because the answer doesn't make sense to me, but if it's the only answer there is I suppose I'll have to accept that.

Well yes, of course it won't make sense to you because its not the answers containing what you want to hear.
Also its not in agreement with you either.

Frankly your dismissal on the law in this issue and your past usual sense of fair play does surprise me.

However, I'm not asking you anything, I only post what I think and have come to believe.
You are on the total opposite side.
I just maybe have stronger respect for the law.

You raised Rolf Harris before for instance.
I was stunned in disbelief at the Rolf Harris case.
However he was found guilty and his accusers made their allegations when he was here to answer them.

Not silenced by death as in the case of these 2 accusing Jackson now.

Marsh. · 11-03-2019, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Which is relevant because?

Eh? You're the one that said it. I asked you, hence the question mark.

rusticgal · 11-03-2019, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeysteele

You raised Rolf Harris before for instance.
I was stunned in disbelief at the Rolf Harris case.
However he was found guilty and his accusers made their allegations when he was here to answer them.

Not silenced by death as in the case of these 2 accusing Jackson now.

....and wasn’t it years after the abuse they made their complaint?...and in the shadow of the Jimmy Saville revelations?

Had MJ had a longer life then he might not have got away with it as it wasn’t until the birth of their own children that the realisation of it came to the fore.

Beso · 11-03-2019, 09:50 PM

Is it safe to trust the law though?...people have been hung for simply shouting let him have it chris, in the uk...and that's before we mention what innocent people have been hung in the USA.

And why isn't elvis being dug up for dna testing?

rusticgal · 11-03-2019, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parmnion

Is it safe to trust the law though?...people have been hung for simply shouting let him have it chris, in the uk...and that's before we mention what innocent people have been hung in the USA.

And why isn't elvis being dug up for dna testing?

Now you leave Elvis alone

Beso · 11-03-2019, 09:56 PM

Elvis was my hero growing up, when i look at him i dont see sex case..I sat today in a cafe in romford decorated with elvis memorabilia....laughing into my poached eggs on toast.nodding at my work mate kev, "aye, he was another one, good music though"

joeysteele · 11-03-2019, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rusticgal

....and wasn’t it years after the abuse they made their complaint?...and in the shadow of the Jimmy Saville revelations?

Had MJ had a longer life then he might not have got away with it as it wasn’t until the birth of their own children that the realisation of it came to the fore.

Yes, however you miss the point.

Rolf Harris was found guilty.
Michael Jackson was not.
After both having extensive investigation, charges and trial they were both cross examined at.

You can choose to ignore and dismiss the law when it suits but that is still a proven fact on this issue.
MJ was acquitted.
Harris was not.

While as to Saville.
There would have been witnesses to present evidence on his abusing.
I believe there was other evidence too.
However, do I believe every claim against Saville, no I don't.
Not all of them.

This pair have only words not hard evidence.
Even the investigation, even thoroughly and personally done as to person and belongings, found not a scrap of evidence.
Other than the accusers words as to Jackson.

I'm sorry but I really do believe had there been something left to this pair by Jackson after his death in his estate.
We'd never have heard of these allegations now.

GoldHeart · 11-03-2019, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rusticgal

Now you leave Elvis alone

Elvis Married Priscilla when she was 14 years old but i guess that's ok??

Beso · 11-03-2019, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Elvis Married Priscilla when she was 14 years old but i guess that's ok??

No, both are really, really wrong.

user104658 · 11-03-2019, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Eh? You're the one that said it. I asked you, hence the question mark.

No, I asked you hence MY question mark

GoldHeart · 11-03-2019, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parmnion

No, both are really, really wrong.

And yet Elvis is still seen as the KING of rock and roll

Beso · 11-03-2019, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

And yet Elvis is still seen as the KING of rock and roll

I would imagine in most people's eyes he will be the king of rock and roll who liked younger girls and michael will be the king of pop who liked young boys.

Beso · 11-03-2019, 10:29 PM

But my granny still loves cliff(the uks elvis)....rip minnie.

GoldHeart · 11-03-2019, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parmnion

I would imagine in most people's eyes he will be the king of rock and roll who liked younger girls and michael will be the king of pop who liked young boys.

Once again you've taken what i said out of context , the point i'm making is MJ was found innocent and was highly INVESTIGATED like a criminal for years. Finding someone weird and unusual around kids doesn't automatically make him a child molester.

Yet Elvis actually marries a 14 year old and people shrug and go "meh" , Jerry Lee Lewis married a 13 year old! and travelled with her like it was casual and they looked like father and daughter . But lets continue to sing 'great balls of fire'

. Yet MJ music is banned from stations LOGIC ! .

Beso · 11-03-2019, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Once again you've taken what i said out of context , the point i'm making is MJ was found innocent and was highly INVESTIGATED like a criminal for years. Finding someone weird and usual around kids doesn't automatically make him a child molester.

Yet Elvis actually marries a 14 year old and people shrug and go "meh" , Jerry Lee Lewis married a 13 year old! and travelled with her like it was casual and they looked like father and daughter . But lets continue to sing 'great balls of fire'

. Yet MJ music is banned from stations LOGIC ! .

I knew the point you were making. I am telling you what about 86 percent off the world are thinking.

GoldHeart · 11-03-2019, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parmnion

But my granny still loves cliff(the uks elvis)....rip minnie.

Unless i've missed something Cliff never married a minor , plus one of his accusers was a convicted rapist

Beso · 11-03-2019, 10:39 PM

O

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Unless i've missed something Cliff never married a minor , plus one of his accusers was a convicted rapist

Eh..what the heck. .I'm on about his lip.

..no wasn't really. .listen..the BBC covered up.for Saville. .the royals covered up for Saville. ..cliffs names been involved...ask yourself why? Why clif, of all people

Beso · 11-03-2019, 10:43 PM

Not excusing a rapist but im not surprised if he was one of the boys passed around in those days.

GoldHeart · 11-03-2019, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parmnion

Not excusing a rapist but im not surprised if he was one of the boys passed around in those days.

Actually it sounds exactly like you ARE excusing him.
The guy is known to be a rapist with severe schizophrenia , he's about as credible as a paper roof in a snow blizzard .

Once again Cliff was treated like a criminal and his home was raided and he was investigated and he was proved INNOCENT! . That's how the law works, if we suddenly go against that then what's the point ??? .

Also the BBC never covered for Cliff , they treated him like crap , however yes they covered for Saville which was disgusting.

Twosugars · 11-03-2019, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parmnion

Ok seeing as I have already stayed my experiences earlier in the thread goldheart, and you just ignored me..

The MJ case is so much like my experience.

1..young, impressionable moving to a new house with my family next door to our cousins..instantly looking up to my stronger older by 2 and a half years cousin...

2..he pitches a tent in his back garden in the summer and obvioysly I'm up for camping..

3..normal jokey nights to begin with, then a little experimenting..

4..the doing it because you looked up to him..it felt ok, didn't it...at the time.

5..just guilt for years really, guilt for it feeling ok.

6..ah **** this, am no having this **** anymorem

No, Parm, your experience is nothing like the MJ case.
There was 2,5 years difference between you and your cousin. So you were almost peers. Not a kid and an adult more than twice his age.
What you describing is two kids/adolescents (?, don't know how old you both were) fooling around which some kids do. I'm sorry you feel he coerced you into it. But you didn't mind it at the time?
It seems to me you feel guilty you enjoyed gay sex in some form, but that's a different matter. Not your cousin's fault you can't come to terms you may be a little gay.
And before you shout at me, I had the same thing done to me by an older cousin.

Twosugars · 11-03-2019, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

That they were wrong then and I suspect they're wrong now. Going for their arguments - by demonstrating that their logic was flawed in the past yet they're using the same reasoning now - is exactly what I'm doing.

As for playing the "Das against da rules" game 2S... It's lame even from the people who are relatively good at it and you're doing a mediocre job of copying them

. Be yourself! Or if you're not going to be yourself, goodness gracious don't be LT

.

Not LT, please

You've argued your case long enough without reaching to other cases and going personal. TS, you don't need to start doing that now. That's not the TS I admire. So gonna give you the same advice: be yourself

GoldHeart · 11-03-2019, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twosugars

No, Parm, your experience is nothing like the MJ case.
There was 2,5 years difference between you and your cousin. So you were almost peers. Not a kid and an adult more than twice his age.
What you describing is two kids/adolescents (?, don't know how old you both were) fooling around which some kids do. I'm sorry you feel he coerced you into it. But you didn't mind it at the time?
It seems to me you feel guilty you enjoyed gay sex in some form, but that's a different matter. Not your cousin's fault you can't come to terms you may be a little gay.
And before you shout at me, I had the same thing done to me by an older cousin.

Yeah it's not comparable with MJ when alleged abuse happened from aged 7 !! while MJ was a grown man . I just can't get my head around a 7 year old not reacting to a grown adult doing graphic disturbing things to him .

Plus the so called victims became adults and still didn't say anything about the abuse until NOW when they're in financial problems.

Marsh. · 11-03-2019, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

No, I asked you hence MY question mark

You said they are throwing the lawsuit around as evidence they are lying. They're using the lawsuit as "evidence" they're after money, which is a possible reason for them to tell these lies. Obviously.