[GoldHeart]

The mcCann's behaviour & actions from the beginning have been questionable and very bizarre.

I will never understand how parent's can leave their very young children alone in an apartment while on holiday in a foreign country as they go out for drinks with their friends .

If Madeline WAS kidnapped , the parent's were the ones that made it very easy to happen by abandoning their kids home alone . But i don't think we'll ever find out what really happened.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

and you would blame your neighbour for being burgled for not having a dog?

No LT but then again my neighbour isn't likely to be arrested for not looking after their house properly either

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

The mcCann's behaviour & actions from the beginning have been questionable and very bizarre.

I will never understand how parent's can leave their very young children alone in an apartment while on holiday in a foreign country as they go out for drinks with their friends .

If Madeline WAS kidnapped , the parent's were the ones that made it very easy to happen by abandoning their kids home alone . But i don't think we'll ever find out what really happened.

they didnt

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

they didnt

They didn't make it easy? Oh LT

[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

perhaps but the fault lies firmly with the abductor or you end up blaming women for being raped for wearing tits out tops and getting drunk at night, or taking cabs home after a club etc

what they did was perfectly safe and millions do it

The blame for the crime always lies with the perpetrator but no one is saying that if someone did take her, they should be let off "because it was easy" - they should face the full force of the law - whereas I don't think someone who has lost a child should face ANY consequences even if they have been reckless but it should still be acknowledged.

"Millions" certainly don't do it, I've never done it and would never dream of it and I literally don't personally know any parent who would. I know SOME people do it but I'd say the exact same about them; they're being reckless. It is NOT "perfectly safe" even if you take the risk of abduction out of the equation. What if there's a fire? Or any other emergency? Hell what if one of them simply wakes up scared from a nightmare and can't find their parents anywhere? It's just not OK .

It's also not "victim blaming" comparable to sexual assault either. Parental responsibility is not comparable to individual responsibility, for a start, and also as above the risks of leaving a child alone go WAY beyond the risk of being attacked.

What you could compare it to, is a parent failing to put a seatbelt on their child and then that child dying in what would otherwise have been a non-fatal crash. Would you lambast them and call them scum? No, you'd still have sympathy for them as a devastated parent who has lost a child, but it DOESN'T change the fact that they ****ed up and that should be acknowledged. You wouldn't' say to others, "Hey you shouldn't bother with seatbelts because crashing is pretty rare anyway"... you'd say "Remember to buckle everyone up because look what happened to that poor kid". Surely.

[Denver]

They are clearly unfit to be around kids when they admitting neglecting them, how social services were not involved is beyond me

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Adam.

They are clearly unfit to be around kids when they admitting neglecting them, how social services were not involved is beyond me

how would they be involved?

[Denver]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

how would they be involved?

Because they neglected their children

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The blame for the crime always lies with the perpetrator but no one is saying that if someone did take her, they should be let off "because it was easy" - they should face the full force of the law - whereas I don't think someone who has lost a child should face ANY consequences even if they have been reckless but it should still be acknowledged.

"Millions" certainly don't do it, I've never done it and would never dream of it and I literally don't personally know any parent who would. I know SOME people do it but I'd say the exact same about them; they're being reckless. It is NOT "perfectly safe" even if you take the risk of abduction out of the equation. What if there's a fire? Or any other emergency? Hell what if one of them simply wakes up scared from a nightmare and can't find their parents anywhere? It's just not OK .

It's also not "victim blaming" comparable to sexual assault either. Parental responsibility is not comparable to individual responsibility, for a start, and also as above the risks of leaving a child alone go WAY beyond the risk of being attacked.

What you could compare it to, is a parent failing to put a seatbelt on their child and then that child dying in what would otherwise have been a non-fatal crash. Would you lambast them and call them scum? No, you'd still have sympathy for them as a devastated parent who has lost a child, but it DOESN'T change the fact that they ****ed up and that should be acknowledged. You wouldn't' say to others, "Hey you shouldn't bother with seatbelts because crashing is pretty rare anyway"... you'd say "Remember to buckle everyone up because look what happened to that poor kid". Surely.

Exactly, my son used to wake up at night all the time up to when he was around 7ish, he would be terrified if he woke up and someone wasn't there for him. That's why I found it so weird that kate says that Maddie had woken the night before and told her that the twins were crying and where was she? I would be horrified to think my babies had woken up and cried but no one came, so that should have been her "light bulb hindsight" moment (as if a person really needed one..........)

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The blame for the crime always lies with the perpetrator but no one is saying that if someone did take her, they should be let off "because it was easy" - they should face the full force of the law - whereas I don't think someone who has lost a child should face ANY consequences even if they have been reckless but it should still be acknowledged.

"Millions" certainly don't do it, I've never done it and would never dream of it and I literally don't personally know any parent who would. I know SOME people do it but I'd say the exact same about them; they're being reckless. It is NOT "perfectly safe" even if you take the risk of abduction out of the equation. What if there's a fire? Or any other emergency? Hell what if one of them simply wakes up scared from a nightmare and can't find their parents anywhere? It's just not OK .

It's also not "victim blaming" comparable to sexual assault either. Parental responsibility is not comparable to individual responsibility, for a start, and also as above the risks of leaving a child alone go WAY beyond the risk of being attacked.

What you could compare it to, is a parent failing to put a seatbelt on their child and then that child dying in what would otherwise have been a non-fatal crash. Would you lambast them and call them scum? No, you'd still have sympathy for them as a devastated parent who has lost a child, but it DOESN'T change the fact that they ****ed up and that should be acknowledged. You wouldn't' say to others, "Hey you shouldn't bother with seatbelts because crashing is pretty rare anyway"... you'd say "Remember to buckle everyone up because look what happened to that poor kid". Surely.

what about letting your daughter drink at 16 and she chokes to death on vomit, what about letting her go to a concert at 17 with her pals and she takes a dodgy E - letting your 7 year old son go to the local park and he gets abducted on his way home?

That wee girl on the scottish island was in her bed and was not safe, the parents did not lock the house door - i have not heard much abuse about them?

to try and have a go at the parents after a child is abducted is gross, they decided what they has set up was safe and its their call. Maybe some parents think that the worst will always happen but some dont because it does not.

[GoldHeart]

I can't help but think if the mcCanns were a chavy working class couple living on the council estate ie like Karen Mathews type situation ,then their other kids would be taken off them by now and social services would of been involved .

Whether they like to present themselves as middle class intelligent professional people with good jobs , it makes no difference as they still neglected their children . And i find their behaviour very weird throughout .

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

what about letting your daughter drink at 16 and she chokes to death on vomit, what about letting her go to a concert at 17 with her pals and she takes a dodgy E - letting your 7 year old son go to the local park and he gets abducted on his way home?

That wee girl on the scottish island was in her bed and was not safe, the parents did not lock the house door - i have not heard much abuse about them?

to try and have a go at the parents after a child is abducted is gross, they decided what they has set up was safe and its their call. Maybe some parents think that the worst will always happen but some dont because it does not.

It wasn't safe though obviously, people are entitled to comment

In this case, the worst did happen so people are entitled to comment.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

It wasn't safe though obviously, people are entitled to comment

In this case, the worst did happen so people are entitled to comment.

not commenting on the fact that wee girl Alesha was abducted from an unlocked house?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

not commenting on the fact that wee girl Alesha was abducted from an unlocked house?

She wasn't left there alone though was she?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

She wasn't left there alone though was she?

yes alone in her room

[bots]

i think LT is obsessed with Kate, forget Madeline

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

yes alone in her room

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

i think LT is obsessed with Kate, forget Madeline

mmhhmm

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

not commenting on the fact that wee girl Alesha was abducted from an unlocked house?

Not commenting on the fact that had she not been left alone she may still be safe and well with her parents?

I don't know enough about that case to comment one way or another and even if they were negligent in any way, it still wouldn't excuse the McCann's for leaving 3 kids under 4 alone to go and socailise.

As for your previous comment that MILLIONS of parents do it, can you provide proof of that? I know of no parent who has left their kids, particularly on holiday, home alone (and I'm from Salford!)

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Not commenting on the fact that had she not been left alone she may still be safe and well with her parents?

I don't know enough about that case to comment one way or another and even if they were negligent in any way, it still wouldn't excuse the McCann's for leaving 3 kids under 4 alone to go and socailise.

As for your previous comment that MILLIONS of parents do it, can you provide proof of that? I know of no parent who has left their kids, particularly on holiday, home alone (and I'm from Salford!)

She wasn't left alone, her dad and grandparents were in the house at the time

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Not commenting on the fact that had she not been left alone she may still be safe and well with her parents?

I don't know enough about that case to comment one way or another and even if they were negligent in any way, it still wouldn't excuse the McCann's for leaving 3 kids under 4 alone to go and socailise.

As for your previous comment that MILLIONS of parents do it, can you provide proof of that? I know of no parent who has left their kids, particularly on holiday, home alone (and I'm from Salford!)

This is what i can't get my head around ! , the children were 2 babies and Madeline was still pretty much a toddler ! . Who in their right mind leaves kids THIS YOUNG alone not only at home but while on holiday in a different environment!! . Anything can happen when they're left unsupervised.

Red flags are there , it's very worrying that these parent's had that mind set to go out drinking plus why not go somewhere child friendly and take the children with them?? .

I have never heard anyone think it's normal to leave children alone who are that SMALL. Even children aged 10 would still have some sort of care instead of being left totally on their own . But a 10 year old being left alone isn't the same as 3 small kids .

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

She wasn't left alone, her dad and grandparents were in the house at the time

No, he was asking me if I had no comment (on that Scottish case) and I was throwing it back to him asking if he had no comment that if the McCann's hadn't left Maddie there is every chance that she would still be safe and well.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

No, he was asking me if I had no comment (on that Scottish case) and I was throwing it back to him asking if he had no comment that if the McCann's hadn't left Maddie there is every chance that she would still be safe and well.

oh my apologies. Just a stupid comparison he's trying to make

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

oh my apologies. Just a stupid comparison he's trying to make

I didn't make it clear - my fault

I want to see what proof he has of the MILLIONs of people leaving their kids alone, LT is normally such a stickler for facts and figures, I am sure he will have such proof at his finger tips

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I didn't make it clear - my fault

I want to see what proof he has of the MILLIONs of people leaving their kids alone, LT is normally such a stickler for facts and figures, I am sure he will have such proof at his finger tips

Well, I've never come across it. The "norm" around anyone I know when taking kids on holiday is take them with you to eat, they just go to bed a bit later