[Shaun]

Depends on the price of them and how much parents are expected to fork out for it, I suppose.

I think they're fine (if they're nice, anyway we were lucky in that regard) until the age of 16, college students and sixth-formers should be able to wear whatever they want.

[Ant.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I can't believe this has got so deep.

Uniforms do as the name suggests, provide uniformity to kids at school. It also provides them with a "school identity". Jersey - I'm not sure what its like where you are in the States but where I am right now within a 3 mile radius we have 3 high schools, the uniform also helps to distinguish which school they are from for a variety of reasons including identifying truancy (although they are more likely not to be in uniform), being able to identify any safeguarding issues (if they are out of school when they should be in etc), any kids causing trouble can be reported to schools etc etc.

Kids here are used to wearing uniforms - until I read this thread, I didn't think anyone thought it was a big issue. Kids in the UK, when they get to High School pretty much accept there is a uniform, I can't see it changing and the nightmare that "non-uniform" days used to cause when I was at school made me dread them

[JerseyWins]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

First of all, I'M not looking for anything. You are the one making the claims and it's down to you to back them up.

Yes, people react differently to anything in life. Just as ANYTHING can be a trigger to someone suffering with anxiety or any other mental illness.

That doesn't support your stance that is against uniforms as they "could form part of a trigger for an already ill person" as ANYTHING can form a trigger for them, and not all of them will be at all bothered by a uniform. There is no DIRECT correlation for it to be used as a reason to not have school uniforms.

Is it that complex? Well actually yes, which is why your argument doesn't work.

But, again, uniforms are the norm over here. You're from America aren't you? I imagine the norm is the opposite.

So you agree that uniforms can have a psychological effect that triggers a person’s anxiety/depression but not how it could do the same for someone in a normal psychological state as well? Everyone is not exactly the same psychologically sound. In your mind if someone finds any of the psychological problems with uniforms, it only means they have some kind of anxiety or condition that it’s triggering? Even so if it’s only a potential issue for someone with anxiety why have we implemented something that still CAN effect these kids negatively, for something that is not an actual benefit for the education of a child. Which I will argue why it’s not a benefit if given reasons, which there now actually are some presented

And yes I believe freedom principles, for kids or otherwise, are a lot more common, widespread & adamant about around here in the US so it could just be differing mindsets within different countries. (Not everyone is against uniforms here though but it’s a lot more common than I see in this thread and typically the uniforms are a private school thing, not public schools)

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I can't believe this has got so deep.

Uniforms do as the name suggests, provide uniformity to kids at school. It also provides them with a "school identity". Jersey - I'm not sure what its like where you are in the States but where I am right now within a 3 mile radius we have 3 high schools, the uniform also helps to distinguish which school they are from for a variety of reasons including identifying truancy (although they are more likely not to be in uniform), being able to identify any safeguarding issues (if they are out of school when they should be in etc), any kids causing trouble can be reported to schools etc etc.

Kids here are used to wearing uniforms - until I read this thread, I didn't think anyone thought it was a big issue. Kids in the UK, when they get to High School pretty much accept there is a uniform, I can't see it changing and the nightmare that "non-uniform" days used to cause when I was at school made me dread them

Most of these potential benefits come after school, where they would be able to dress freely, adjust their uniforms (where it could not be recognizable), put a coat over, etc.
There are also security measures to prevent kids from leaving schools, including usually at least one cop by one of the exits (not every school but more & more safety measures are taken here especially with shootings), cameras, and traffic workers/flaggers which would raise a red flag if any kid is away during school hours

As for identity, it gives identity for the school but not individual students, they all start to blend in more and laziness in identifying which students actually belong to the school may develop because you’re just looking for the uniforms. An intruder can easily blend in with the group just by knowing the uniform policy for the school and teachers & supervisors are always keyed in on the uniforms, not the faces and identities that belong to the school.

Re: Cherie’s post (I assume Kaz quoted it from pages back as I can’t find the post to quote it )

- Easier/quicker in the morning... what happens when part of the uniform is misplaced in the morning? Uniform(s) being prepared for the wash accidentally forgotten about? Hell, these uniforms in plenty cases require more articles of clothing than the typical wardrobe. Is it really saving much difference-making time overall and is there not also a downside that loses time?
- Students learn about what formal dressing is in school and when it should be used. They don’t need to be forced into what to wear as kids in school in order to learn that. There is no directly positive form of disciplining with full wardrobe guidelines as there would be for punishment for misbehaving, etc. I believe in disciplining in ways that improve a person. I learned about correct formal dressing quite easily while having total freedom as a kid in school (of course with dress code boundaries, which is normal and more along the lines of conduct that is actually used in businesses for adults)
- It does seem to save money for parents in most cases, a bit of a benefit for them which I just about fully agree there (not all cases but it’s a fair point) and said myself as well

Again, being from America it may be a difference of opinion here but to me and many Americans’ beliefs, there should be some kind of very quality, progressive benefit to limit one’s freedom in ANY way, as major or minor as it is. Does it actually improve a student’s learning, atmosphere, etc.? When you look more carefully at uniforms’ supposed “benefits” I don’t believe it does.

[JerseyWins]

[I spent way, way, way too much time of my lunch break on that ] I didn’t bother proof-reading at all so hope it even structurally makes sense.

[Elliot]

Shocked so many people are so strongly for them. there were even a huge amount of teachers at my school that hated the uniform system. it was just something we all did even though we thought it was stupid....

[Ant.]

Okay I know this is serious news and debates but surely the advantages on non-uniform is "a child might like to wear what they like" and that's that? Is it THAT psychologically deep?

[Matthew.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

[I spent way, way, way too much time of my lunch break on that ] I didn’t bother proof-reading at all so hope it even structurally makes sense.

I was thinking while reading it, how long did this take to type up

[Tony Montana]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

[I spent way, way, way too much time of my lunch break on that ] I didn’t bother proof-reading at all so hope it even structurally makes sense.

Silly you, wasting your precious lunch break typing this up. You should've waited till you got home.

[Jason.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

So you agree that uniforms can have a psychological effect that triggers a person’s anxiety/depression but not how it could do the same for someone in a normal psychological state as well? Everyone is not exactly the same psychologically sound. In your mind if someone finds any of the psychological problems with uniforms, it only means they have some kind of anxiety or condition that it’s triggering? Even so if it’s only a potential issue for someone with anxiety why have we implemented something that still CAN effect these kids negatively, for something that is not an actual benefit for the education of a child. Which I will argue why it’s not a benefit if given reasons, which there now actually are some presented

And yes I believe freedom principles, for kids or otherwise, are a lot more common, widespread & adamant about around here in the US so it could just be differing mindsets within different countries. (Not everyone is against uniforms here though but it’s a lot more common than I see in this thread and typically the uniforms are a private school thing, not public schools)




Most of these potential benefits come after school, where they would be able to dress freely, adjust their uniforms (where it could not be recognizable), put a coat over, etc.
There are also security measures to prevent kids from leaving schools, including usually at least one cop by one of the exits (not every school but more & more safety measures are taken here especially with shootings), cameras, and traffic workers/flaggers which would raise a red flag if any kid is away during school hours

As for identity, it gives identity for the school but not individual students, they all start to blend in more and laziness in identifying which students actually belong to the school may develop because you’re just looking for the uniforms. An intruder can easily blend in with the group just by knowing the uniform policy for the school and teachers & supervisors are always keyed in on the uniforms, not the faces and identities that belong to the school.

Re: Cherie’s post (I assume Kaz quoted it from pages back as I can’t find the post to quote it )

- Easier/quicker in the morning... what happens when part of the uniform is misplaced in the morning? Uniform(s) being prepared for the wash accidentally forgotten about? Hell, these uniforms in plenty cases require more articles of clothing than the typical wardrobe. Is it really saving much difference-making time overall and is there not also a downside that loses time?
- Students learn about what formal dressing is in school and when it should be used. They don’t need to be forced into what to wear as kids in school in order to learn that. There is no directly positive form of disciplining with full wardrobe guidelines as there would be for punishment for misbehaving, etc. I believe in disciplining in ways that improve a person. I learned about correct formal dressing quite easily while having total freedom as a kid in school (of course with dress code boundaries, which is normal and more along the lines of conduct that is actually used in businesses for adults)
- It does seem to save money for parents in most cases, a bit of a benefit for them which I just about fully agree there (not all cases but it’s a fair point) and said myself as well

Again, being from America it may be a difference of opinion here but to me and many Americans’ beliefs, there should be some kind of very quality, progressive benefit to limit one’s freedom in ANY way, as major or minor as it is. Does it actually improve a student’s learning, atmosphere, etc.? When you look more carefully at uniforms’ supposed “benefits” I don’t believe it does.

[JerseyWins]

Originally Posted by Tony Montana

Silly you, wasting your precious lunch break typing this up. You should've waited till you got home.

Once I read it I don’t have patience to make my counter-arguments later

I’m on mobile too, typed like wildfire to get all the words out I’ll see if there’s more to debate later but it seems pretty much a moot point either way, just what you believe does or doesn’t work

[Twosugars]

Bloody Yanks with their libertarian agenda

[Elliot]

Originally Posted by Ant.

Okay I know this is serious news and debates but surely the advantages on non-uniform is "a child might like to wear what they like" and that's that? Is it THAT psychologically deep?

The few advantages to uniform are also not that deep..... the best one I’ve heard is that it stops bullying because some kids have designer clothes and others have second hand or w/e but there were kids who got bullied for having second hand uniform or scruffy uniform because their parents don’t care so like

[Elliot]

Me and a friend also once got threatened on the way home from school for wearing a uniform of a certain school that had a certain reputation or w/e, and in year 10 we were all banned from going to the towns mcdonalds because a few kids caused a scene lololol guess trying to enforce collectivism and destroying any sense if individuality instead of just trying to, ykno, install good values really paying off lol

And I think with certain schools you can tell they only care about how they look and this is further enforced through uniform. Like they only make an effort ofsted days and spend more time teaching you how to pass an exam and giving you past papers then teaching you the syllabus properly so they can fill certain quotas and get better budgets.. this ends up pissing a lot of teachers off too because they get no freedom and are basically told to only focus on exam prep and homework instead of creating lessons. More indulgent with how their school looks rather than whether they make well rounded children and adults that’ll do well in life

[Ant.]

Originally Posted by Elliot

The few advantages to uniform are also not that deep..... the best one I’ve heard is that it stops bullying because some kids have designer clothes and others have second hand or w/e but there were kids who got bullied for having second hand uniform or scruffy uniform because their parents don’t care so like

you're right, they're not. But people (and by people I mean someone who's name rhymes with PercyGins) are acting as if a uniform represses a child's psychological development

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

So you agree that uniforms can have a psychological effect that triggers a person’s anxiety/depression but not how it could do the same for someone in a normal psychological state as well? Everyone is not exactly the same psychologically sound. In your mind if someone finds any of the psychological problems with uniforms, it only means they have some kind of anxiety or condition that it’s triggering? Even so if it’s only a potential issue for someone with anxiety why have we implemented something that still CAN effect these kids negatively, for something that is not an actual benefit for the education of a child. Which I will argue why it’s not a benefit if given reasons, which there now actually are some presented

And yes I believe freedom principles, for kids or otherwise, are a lot more common, widespread & adamant about around here in the US so it could just be differing mindsets within different countries. (Not everyone is against uniforms here though but it’s a lot more common than I see in this thread and typically the uniforms are a private school thing, not public schools)




Most of these potential benefits come after school, where they would be able to dress freely, adjust their uniforms (where it could not be recognizable), put a coat over, etc.
There are also security measures to prevent kids from leaving schools, including usually at least one cop by one of the exits (not every school but more & more safety measures are taken here especially with shootings), cameras, and traffic workers/flaggers which would raise a red flag if any kid is away during school hours

As for identity, it gives identity for the school but not individual students, they all start to blend in more and laziness in identifying which students actually belong to the school may develop because you’re just looking for the uniforms. An intruder can easily blend in with the group just by knowing the uniform policy for the school and teachers & supervisors are always keyed in on the uniforms, not the faces and identities that belong to the school.

Re: Cherie’s post (I assume Kaz quoted it from pages back as I can’t find the post to quote it )

- Easier/quicker in the morning... what happens when part of the uniform is misplaced in the morning? Uniform(s) being prepared for the wash accidentally forgotten about? Hell, these uniforms in plenty cases require more articles of clothing than the typical wardrobe. Is it really saving much difference-making time overall and is there not also a downside that loses time?
- Students learn about what formal dressing is in school and when it should be used. They don’t need to be forced into what to wear as kids in school in order to learn that. There is no directly positive form of disciplining with full wardrobe guidelines as there would be for punishment for misbehaving, etc. I believe in disciplining in ways that improve a person. I learned about correct formal dressing quite easily while having total freedom as a kid in school (of course with dress code boundaries, which is normal and more along the lines of conduct that is actually used in businesses for adults)
- It does seem to save money for parents in most cases, a bit of a benefit for them which I just about fully agree there (not all cases but it’s a fair point) and said myself as well

Again, being from America it may be a difference of opinion here but to me and many Americans’ beliefs, there should be some kind of very quality, progressive benefit to limit one’s freedom in ANY way, as major or minor as it is. Does it actually improve a student’s learning, atmosphere, etc.? When you look more carefully at uniforms’ supposed “benefits” I don’t believe it does.

We don't have enough cops here to actually stop criminals, let alone stop a bunch of kids leaving a school

I understand a lot of what you're saying but I think in the main its more of a America / UK thing. You guys don't have uniforms, we do. Personally, I think they're a good thing I never resented wearing a uniform, its easier for me to sort my son's uniform out over a weekend, he knows what he has to wear, its all washed and ready to go on a monday with 5 clean shirts etc so he doesn't have to think when he gets up and I don't have to worry

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by Livia

I'm for them. It'd reduce the risk of poor kids being ridiculed for cheap trainers and no designer labels. It gives everyone a kind of equality.

Absolutely agree. It puts everyone on the same level.

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I think its a good thing, particularly for parents, getting kids out to school in the morning can be hard enough, add into the mix ' what am I wearing' and it becomes more of a drudge

It prepares students for life outside school, as in most work places there is a uniform of some description

Also saves money as wearing the same clothes to school each day would not be acceptable to some kids

Exactly...I wear a uniform for work..as much as I dislike it at least I don’t have to think about what to wear.
On another note..when my boys got home from school they always changed into their own clothes to go out to play...I couldn’t understand why children were out playing in their uniform..but then each to their own

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

So you agree that uniforms can have a psychological effect that triggers a person’s anxiety/depression but not how it could do the same for someone in a normal psychological state as well?

I agreed it could do both. But I also said, anything could.

Or are we going to shield kids, wrap them up in cotton wool, say yes to everything they want to do, not allow them to do something that might initially be uncomfortable just on the off chance they're psychologically "triggered"?

I know Americans have the stereotype of popping off to the shrink's office at the slightest thing, but IMO that would be ridiculous.

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

Everyone is not exactly the same psychologically sound. In your mind if someone finds any of the psychological problems with uniforms, it only means they have some kind of anxiety or condition that it’s triggering? Even so if it’s only a potential issue for someone with anxiety why have we implemented something that still CAN effect these kids negatively.

Are they not? Thanks for the lesson, I didn't know that.

It's a wonder kids leave home with all these ifs and buts. The world is a scary place.

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

And yes I believe freedom principles, for kids or otherwise, are a lot more common, widespread & adamant about around here in the US so it could just be differing mindsets within different countries. (Not everyone is against uniforms here though but it’s a lot more common than I see in this thread and typically the uniforms are a private school thing, not public schools)

So, now it's about freedom rights?

Again, how will they cope in the actual real world where everybody else doesn't pander to their wants, especially in time that is not their own personal time?

That's all it is, pandering. You can use "possible, if, maybe, psychological effects" as an excuse all you want. But, again, that could apply to anything and is not such a direct link that it's a valid argument against uniforms.

They could, possibly, maybe have ill psychological effects from any mundane aspect of life.

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

An intruder can easily blend in with the group just by knowing the uniform policy for the school and teachers & supervisors are always keyed in on the uniforms, not the faces and identities that belong to the school.

Erm, no, no they're not.

But is this supposed to be against uniforms? Because this example you use is actually worse and more dangerous with kids wearing anything they choose, something different everyday. An intruder just has to walk in if your example is true, wearing anything they want.

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

Re: Cherie’s post (I assume Kaz quoted it from pages back as I can’t find the post to quote it )

- Easier/quicker in the morning... what happens when part of the uniform is misplaced in the morning? Uniform(s) being prepared for the wash accidentally forgotten about? Hell, these uniforms in plenty cases require more articles of clothing than the typical wardrobe. Is it really saving much difference-making time overall and is there not also a downside that loses time?

That could literally apply to anything.
If someone is so unorganised they've misplaced clothing, or forgot to wash it then they will do that no matter what the clothes are.

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

Again, being from America it may be a difference of opinion here but to me and many Americans’ beliefs, there should be some kind of very quality, progressive benefit to limit one’s freedom in ANY way, as major or minor as it is. Does it actually improve a student’s learning, atmosphere, etc.? When you look more carefully at uniforms’ supposed “benefits” I don’t believe it does.

Well, with that ridiculous mindset forcing children to attend school at all is limiting their freedom. But that's why they're kids. They don't have 100% autonomy on 100% of their lives. They have parents, guardians who are responsible for them until they come of age for a reason.

[JerseyWins]

“So, now it’s about freedom rights? ” Look at one of my first one or two posts in this thread, yes that’s kind of what it’s about lol.

“Oooh but anxiety can be triggered in many ways, but that doesn’t mean uniforms have a direct correlation. Kids can’t be wrapped up into a ball their whole life!” Yada yada

On the grand scheme, uniforms aren’t a stepping stone for a child, they’re not a learning enhancement, none of that... so on the grounds of being free why shouldn’t they choose their outfits for school? It doesn’t mean they’re spoiled or something if they don’t like it.

And what’s your point exactly? A lot of things can have an effect on a kid’s anxiety, a lot of things can psychologically affect someone in a negative way, yeah duh. Why were you denying uniforms can possibly do this until now? You tell me rules or guidelines implemented in schools that might trigger anxiety or depression... I’ll answer if I think it should actually be necessary in schools to improve the students’ education and well-being or if it’s more inclined to being a possible detriment that isn’t worth it! Pretty sure something that triggers anxiety etc. is typically looked into and potentially changed no matter how minor it is, or how ridiculous you might take it to be. But we’re talking about rules/policies in schools here not anything else. Are uniforms flat-out necessary? No. So if it’s simply possible to cause negative psychological effects, that is something to consider if it’s worth it if you ask me.

Your sarcastic exaggerating post leads me to believe you think I would be against say, school group projects, because it’s something that can effect or trigger these anxieties/conditions. No, because that is actually beneficial to the educational system and a student’s learning & communication skills, ie growing as a student and person. Pretty fundamental and necessary in life.

[JerseyWins]

Originally Posted by Elliot

The few advantages to uniform are also not that deep..... the best one I’ve heard is that it stops bullying because some kids have designer clothes and others have second hand or w/e but there were kids who got bullied for having second hand uniform or scruffy uniform because their parents don’t care so like

Originally Posted by Elliot

Me and a friend also once got threatened on the way home from school for wearing a uniform of a certain school that had a certain reputation or w/e, and in year 10 we were all banned from going to the towns mcdonalds because a few kids caused a scene lololol guess trying to enforce collectivism and destroying any sense if individuality instead of just trying to, ykno, install good values really paying off lol

And I think with certain schools you can tell they only care about how they look and this is further enforced through uniform. Like they only make an effort ofsted days and spend more time teaching you how to pass an exam and giving you past papers then teaching you the syllabus properly so they can fill certain quotas and get better budgets.. this ends up pissing a lot of teachers off too because they get no freedom and are basically told to only focus on exam prep and homework instead of creating lessons. More indulgent with how their school looks rather than whether they make well rounded children and adults that’ll do well in life

Very good posts

[Ant.]

Originally Posted by Elliot

Me and a friend also once got threatened on the way home from school for wearing a uniform of a certain school that had a certain reputation or w/e, and in year 10 we were all banned from going to the towns mcdonalds because a few kids caused a scene lololol guess trying to enforce collectivism and destroying any sense if individuality instead of just trying to, ykno, install good values really paying off lol

And I think with certain schools you can tell they only care about how they look and this is further enforced through uniform. Like they only make an effort ofsted days and spend more time teaching you how to pass an exam and giving you past papers then teaching you the syllabus properly so they can fill certain quotas and get better budgets.. this ends up pissing a lot of teachers off too because they get no freedom and are basically told to only focus on exam prep and homework instead of creating lessons. More indulgent with how their school looks rather than whether they make well rounded children and adults that’ll do well in life

okay I was sorta understanding what you were saying but 'destroying any sense of individuality' seems really extreme like... I don't feel unique walking around in jeans and a shirt rather than in a uniform. A lot of people feel that way but meh I guess it depends on the person

Well yeah, of course they want to look good It'd be ideal if they could keep it up 24/7 but they can't. Uniform is just a simple rule and while it can be overly strict, it isn't necessarily a bad thing. That can be controlled, whereas the pressures teacher's face can't always. Do you have a job? If you do, do you make a conscious effort to be focused and 'better' than you are when you're not around them? I certainly do. It's no different for teachers


I don't really understand your point? The whole point of school is to pass the exams. The advice always is do well in your exams rather than learning for the hell of it. And past papers are probably the best resource for revision for most people because it identifies weak areas and also practice exam technique which is what will get you the grades. That applies to most, if not 'all' schools. In the end, learning cell functions is fine and dandy, but would they always explicitly state "name this organelle" and "where does aerobic respiration occur in cells?". They'd phrase it in questions which make you think about what it's asking you for and whatever you get wrong you can learn there and then - within ten minutes you can cover exam technique, what you do and don't know, and how to improve on a topic, whereas going through it again in a lesson would only waste time. I'm sincerely hoping I'm not missing what point you're trying to make, I'm just a tad confused? Are you suggesting teachers don't teach anymore and make you teach yourself? If that's the case this part was completely irrelevant but yeah. idk what you mean

[Ant.]

https://ie-today.co.uk/Blog/the-impa...mental-health/

interesting read

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

“So, now it’s about freedom rights? ” Look at one of my first one or two posts in this thread, yes that’s kind of what it’s about lol.

“Oooh but anxiety can be triggered in many ways, but that doesn’t mean uniforms have a direct correlation. Kids can’t be wrapped up into a ball their whole life!” Yada yada

On the grand scheme, uniforms aren’t a stepping stone for a child, they’re not a learning enhancement, none of that... so on the grounds of being free why shouldn’t they choose their outfits for school? It doesn’t mean they’re spoiled or something if they don’t like it.

And what’s your point exactly? A lot of things can have an effect on a kid’s anxiety, a lot of things can psychologically affect someone in a negative way, yeah duh. Why were you denying uniforms can possibly do this until now? You tell me rules or guidelines implemented in schools that might trigger anxiety or depression... I’ll answer if I think it should actually be necessary in schools to improve the students’ education and well-being or if it’s more inclined to being a possible detriment that isn’t worth it! Pretty sure something that triggers anxiety etc. is typically looked into and potentially changed no matter how minor it is, or how ridiculous you might take it to be. But we’re talking about rules/policies in schools here not anything else. Are uniforms flat-out necessary? No. So if it’s simply possible to cause negative psychological effects, that is something to consider if it’s worth it if you ask me.

Your sarcastic exaggerating post leads me to believe you think I would be against say, school group projects, because it’s something that can effect or trigger these anxieties/conditions. No, because that is actually beneficial to the educational system and a student’s learning & communication skills, ie growing as a student and person. Pretty fundamental and necessary in life.

Yada yada is all you have to say to a valid counter-point?

I haven't denied uniforms do or don't do anything. I've denied that uniforms (out of every other thing in life) have been proven to have such an effect on a lot of students' development and lives that it's a valid argument to put forth against them. I've been asking you to explain a wild and ridiculous comment you insisted was "fact" and after all this time continue to fail to do so.

I haven't exaggerated anything. That's what's so funny.

"Pretty fundamental and necessary in life" Yeah, like wearing jeans to school I guess.

If you're entire argument is predicated on "Can this thing possibly cause a negative reaction?" and "Is this thing necessary?" you'd be sat at home eating food inside a plastic bubble.

You tell me rules or guidelines implemented in schools that might trigger anxiety or depression... I’ll answer if I think it should actually be necessary in schools to improve the students’ education and well-being or if it’s more inclined to being a possible detriment that isn’t worth it! Pretty sure something that triggers anxiety etc. is typically looked into and potentially changed no matter how minor it is, or how ridiculous you might take it to be.

I don't really care, nor see the relevance in listing every schooling policy to see if you deem it necessary. The topic isn't "What Jersey deems necessary". But thank you.

You've also answered your own question. It hasn't been found to be so detrimental to the kids' mental wellbeing that it's been withdrawn. So that's not really supporting your argument.

But you clearly don't understand a word I'm saying, hence random comments like "An intruder can dress as a student and enter the building". So, it's all yours.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Ant.

https://ie-today.co.uk/Blog/the-impa...mental-health/

interesting read

Look how detrimental it is and unnecessary to their lives though!

A nice pair of jeans and a cute top will cure that!

[JerseyWins]

Originally Posted by Ant.

https://ie-today.co.uk/Blog/the-impa...mental-health/

interesting read

"Back in 2007, in a study commissioned by the Schoolwear Association, researchers from Oxford Brookes University ran a series of focus groups with students aged 13–17 to uncover their perceptions around wearing a uniform. Feedback from the teenagers revealed that a consistent dress code meant they didn’t have to decide what to wear each day or worry about whether they would be bullied or criticised by their peers."

Until 12 years later some people decided to actually be progressive and teach students that it doesn't matter what other students think of them or what they have but to proudly express themselves whatever way they want, including from a fashion/clothing sense. We also learned that bullying still happens all the same for what their uniform looks like, what they look like, how they act etc. It's something you prevent with other, actually progressive, measures. Not slap a bandaid uniform on.

How psychological of that article as well btw. It's a shame it can't work the other way around for students that like having their own clothes, feel proud and/or gain confidence from their own sense of style, from feeling free to wear whatever type of clothes they'd like etc. They can't POSSIBLY feel trapped or uncomfortable or lose self-esteem from clothing they're forced to wear in unity? It's only psychological when it helps their self-esteem not when it hurts it apparently! I've been saying it's a psychological thing to consider on both ends and you and Marsh just contradicted yourselves entirely by agreeing with an article that is heavily an anti-bullying, pro-psychological uniforms argument. Multiple people have already established these concepts don't work as much as schools and establishments like to make it seem. They're beneficial to schools' image 100% and schools will love to make it seem very helpful. The article literally said the uniforms improve students' concentration like it's supposed to be believable, like they're less concentrated when they wear the latest designer label clothing or too focused on the next guy's latest designer label clothing lol.

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Yada yada is all you have to say to a valid counter-point?

I haven't denied uniforms do or don't do anything. I've denied that uniforms (out of every other thing in life) have been proven to have such an effect on a lot of students' development and lives that it's a valid argument to put forth against them. I've been asking you to explain a wild and ridiculous comment you insisted was "fact" and after all this time continue to fail to do so.

I haven't exaggerated anything. That's what's so funny.

"Pretty fundamental and necessary in life" Yeah, like wearing jeans to school I guess.

If you're entire argument is predicated on "Can this thing possibly cause a negative reaction?" and "Is this thing necessary?" you'd be sat at home eating food inside a plastic bubble.

You're right... I don't know what you are or aren't denying, what you do or don't think because you haven't taken a stance on literally anything and you're going in circles with wild exaggerations on one psychological effect compared to another as well as the "fact" I said "fact" when I agreed there and cleared it up that I should've said opinion in that situation.

But you took a stance on applauding an article that contradicts some of your points.. so there's that at least.

Also to your last point no, the vast majority of rules & policies that are given in schools are deemed pretty necessary in some kind of educational or psychological way. Right now, many still do think uniforms are a good psychological improvement for schools. I think that type of thinking is outdated personally and I'm trying to argue why it is but not doing a very good job apparently. And whatever isn't deemed necessary can always be discussed if we shouldn't have it in place...

I don't really care, nor see the relevance in listing every schooling policy to see if you deem it necessary. The topic isn't "What Jersey deems necessary". But thank you.

You've also answered your own question. It hasn't been found to be so detrimental to the kids' mental wellbeing that it's been withdrawn. So that's not really supporting your argument.

But you clearly don't understand a word I'm saying, hence random comments like "An intruder can dress as a student and enter the building". So, it's all yours.

It's kind of important to the argument but ok. I'm saying I agree with school policies even if they have some kind of potential negative trigger on a student with anxiety or otherwise.... if there are actual benefits that over-cede any potential risks for having a troubled or not-fully-psychologically-sound student go down the wrong path with something you are forcing them to do unnecessarily. I never said you don't have to discipline students, that's why you're not understanding my points considering the examples you're giving. You think because I think uniforms are a pointless way to discipline students, then I'm saying no discipline should ever be given ffs. Your exaggerations are kind of a howl though.

"It hasn't been found to be detrimental" It's not a policy in many schools all across America. That doesn't mean it shouldn't continue to be questioned whether it's truly necessary, and that it shouldn't be considered if the psychological problems & triggers it may cause are enough to consider over the positive ones some people believe.


I prefer the free approach compared to a policy that can be as troublesome as it is helpful, as psychologically regressing as it is progressing, etc.

Again, at the end of the day I think it's opposing norms in different countries and it's going to be difficult to get to a conclusion here. You can go next, I may or may not continue after that, but quite frankly I'm very bored of this argument at this point and I don't think either of us is getting anywhere with it tbh.