[bots]

The catholic church leadership really hasn't moved on since the Borgias period. If they could still get away with half they got away with then, they would. They are only interested in controlling their flock, not actually bettering their lives

[Ammi]

...it’s pro choice for other things as well which his opinion takes away...

‘He argued that children who were not expected to live long after birth deserved to be treated in the womb “with extraordinary pharmacological, surgical and other interventions.” Such care “helps parents to grieve and not only think of it as a loss, but as a step on a path taken together,” he said.’


...There is no one size fits all for any of these heartbreaking things like grief and when that grief should begin and the individual path forward with it...paths are not always taken together with parents as he suggests, grief can often separate those paths sadly...

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The thing is, this is another example where experience seems pretty important in having a fully rounded opinion.

As awful as this is going to sound, I was really against the idea of abortion (though I'd never have wanted it to be illegal) until I had children . Now just to quickly say, that's not because I don't want the ones I have!

I'm now 100% Pro choice and 100% woman's choice. The reason for this, is that I don't think people fully comprehend the physical and psychological effect that even a PLANNED pregnancy has on a woman's body until they directly experience one. Obviously I appreciate that it's still something I'll never completely understand but even having experienced it as best supporting actor completely changed my perspective on it. It's spoken of so flippantly in the abortion debate - especially by men, but also especially by anyone who has no real experience of what a 9 month pregnancy and birth entails.

So the pope, who pregnancy could not be LESS relevant for personally, really has a very limited scope for commenting on this even if you take the blatant hypocrisy out of the equation.

Also what's with the idea that you can't say "I'm not interested in what this guy has to offer" based on past actions?? Is that how it works now? I mean sure everyone is entitled to their opinion, but they're not entitled to "have their opinion taken seriously" when they're being a laughable hypocrite .

Yep I was anti abortion myself when I was younger. I wouldn't say I'm pro abortion now but I am 100% pro choice, there's a difference

[Tom4784]

The pro-life movement are scum and the pope protects a culture of rape and peadophillia in his own religion of stolen pagan traditions.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Because until he takes a proper stance on those atrocities within his own organisation his opinion on what is and is not "criminal" is comedic, if it wasn't so horrific.

Comedic or not, he's entitled to it as much as you.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Comedic or not, he's entitled to it as much as you.

Being entitled to an opinion doesn't mean immunity having that opinion criticised .

[Twosugars]

This Pope is making progress on abuses but faces a lot of internal opposition . He's now hated by conservatives who oppose and sabotage him at every step.

[Crimson Dynamo]

he is still a hideous liar and head of a destructive world cult

[Mokka]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Comedic or not, he's entitled to it as much as you.

Can you not concede that when it's the Pope... it isn't an opinion anymore. If he is saying it out loud, his followers believe it to be the word of God.
It's not the same as you and me spouting our opinions online... and yes opinions can be perspective based and can be right and can be wrong.
There is a huge Catholic culture in many parts of the world that will use this word of God to roll back women's rights.

It isn't just an opinion

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Mokka

Can you not concede that when it's the Pope... it isn't an opinion anymore. If he is saying it out loud, his followers believe it to be the word of God.
It's not the same as you and me spouting our opinions online... and yes opinions can be perspective based and can be right and can be wrong.
There is a huge Catholic culture in many parts of the world that will use this word of God to roll back women's rights.

It isn't just an opinion

Mokka that's not how the doctrine of papal infallibility works

[Mokka]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Mokka that's not how the doctrine of papal infallibility works

90% of Catholics believers don't know how it works .. this is what the general belief is

[Cherie]

The poor Pope can't catch a break, he might want to change religion

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Mokka

90% of Catholics believers don't know how it works .. this is what the general belief is

The thing is it's very very rare, so rare that's it's safe to assume what he said is not infallible.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Comedic or not, he's entitled to it as much as you.

Sure and I'm entitled to my opinion on that opinion, works both ways

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

The thing is it's very very rare, so rare that's it's safe to assume what he said is not infallible.

I think Mokka's point (and I agree with her) is that many if not most Catholics will not follow those sorts of technicalities and will go with a broad "if the pope said it then that's what my religion says is right and I will go with that".

Being frank; it's not people in coutries / states where the population is generally philosophically and theologically aware that are at risk. It's women in places where the religion is devout, dogmatic and basic and what the pope says will be taken as gospel, full stop.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Mokka

Can you not concede that when it's the Pope... it isn't an opinion anymore. If he is saying it out loud, his followers believe it to be the word of God.

Well that goes for his opinion about anything.

Only commenting on and taking umbridge with only parts of the things he says is as hypocritical and narrow as those claiming he is.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Sure and I'm entitled to my opinion on that opinion, works both ways

An opinion on an opinion is different to trying to invalidate it.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Being entitled to an opinion doesn't mean immunity having that opinion criticised .

Who said it did? I didn't.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I think Mokka's point (and I agree with her) is that many if not most Catholics will not follow those sorts of technicalities and will go with a broad "if the pope said it then that's what my religion says is right and I will go with that".

Being frank; it's not people in coutries / states where the population is generally philosophically and theologically aware that are at risk. It's women in places where the religion is devout, dogmatic and basic and what the pope says will be taken as gospel, full stop.

Usually reality intervenes ie Catholics are mostly used to not following the church when it doesn't suit them

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Usually reality intervenes ie Catholics are mostly used to not following the church when it doesn't suit them

In Europe and US/Canada etc., sure. In Africa and South America though? The Catholic Church / Pope's (previous, I think?) stance on contraceptives for example has been absolutely disastrous for Christians in Africa. His words have massive power across vast sections of the global population.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Usually reality intervenes ie Catholics are mostly used to not following the church when it doesn't suit them

Does that only apply to Catholics, unless you are an extremist I think most people who follow a religious doctrine tend to pick the bits that suit

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Does that only apply to Catholics, unless you are an extremist I think most people who follow a religious doctrine tend to pick the bits that suit

That's right. But the argument here was about Catholics taking popes words as gospel.
Keep up Cherie

[Mokka]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I think Mokka's point (and I agree with her) is that many if not most Catholics will not follow those sorts of technicalities and will go with a broad "if the pope said it then that's what my religion says is right and I will go with that".

Being frank; it's not people in coutries / states where the population is generally philosophically and theologically aware that are at risk. It's women in places where the religion is devout, dogmatic and basic and what the pope says will be taken as gospel, full stop.

This is exactly my point ! Thanks TS

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

That's right. But the argument here was about Catholics taking popes words as gospel.
Keep up Cherie

I haven't been following the thread, doubt there is anything here that hasn't been said before on one of the many Christian bashing threads so I just skim and don't read most of it

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I haven't been following the thread, doubt there is anything here that hasn't been said before on one of the many Christian bashing threads so I just skim and don't read most of it

Correct.