[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Lies.

She criticised Israel which we are all entitled to do and considering the HUGE disparity between civilian deaths when it comes to Palestine and Israel, criticism of how they've handled the conflict is more than apt.

Trying to make her out to be an anti-semite for criticising Israel sets a dangerous precedent and is just another example of the right wing doing what they do best, lying, cheating, misleading and spinning the facts into falsities to suit their agenda.

You are so defensive when it comes to people accusing others of racism but you are so easy to slap people with the anti-semite label when you disagree with their views, Livia. Sort out your hypocrisy, please.

X3

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

People probably overlook it because they saw a meme which told them racism=power+prejudice

You probably don't know what prejudice even means given some of your comments on racism.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Lies.

She criticised Israel which we are all entitled to do and considering the HUGE disparity between civilian deaths when it comes to Palestine and Israel, criticism of how they've handled the conflict is more than apt.

Trying to make her out to be an anti-semite for criticising Israel sets a dangerous precedent and is just another example of the right wing doing what they do best, lying, cheating, misleading and spinning the facts into falsities to suit their agenda.

You are so defensive when it comes to people accusing others of racism but you are so easy to slap people with the anti-semite label when you disagree with their views, Livia. Sort out your hypocrisy, please.

X4

It's like saying criticising a muslim country is Islamophobia

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Lies.

She criticised Israel which we are all entitled to do and considering the HUGE disparity between civilian deaths when it comes to Palestine and Israel, criticism of how they've handled the conflict is more than apt.

Trying to make her out to be an anti-semite for criticising Israel sets a dangerous precedent and is just another example of the right wing doing what they do best, lying, cheating, misleading and spinning the facts into falsities to suit their agenda.

You are so defensive when it comes to people accusing others of racism but you are so easy to slap people with the anti-semite label when you disagree with their views, Livia. Sort out your hypocrisy, please.

100% right.

This brandishing of being antisemite to any seen as undesirable by whoever accuses them of being.
Is a truly dangerous precedent as you point out.

It also however does a massive disservice to genuine antisemitism.

In the present, not just UK climate but elsewhere in the World.
This careless accusations of antisemitism by anyone is, in my view, and should be wholly unacceptable.
Shocking.

[armand.kay]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

People probably overlook it because they saw a meme which told them racism=power+prejudice

that definition of racism has been part of scholarly discourse since the 80s luv, most people who don't rely on alt-right YouTubers for their info already know that though x

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

100% right.

This brandishing of being antisemite to any seen as undesirable by whoever accuses them of being.
Is a truly dangerous precedent as you point out.

It also however does a massive disservice to genuine antisemitism.

In the present, not just UK climate but elsewhere in the World.
This careless accusations of antisemitism by anyone is, in my view, and should be wholly unacceptable.
Shocking.

Quite right, it makes light of anti-semitism and it gives actual anti-semites a weapon in which to devalue any accusations against them.

If someone have grounds to make such an accusation, then do so but if they throw the label around to try to shame people into silence then they turn their cause into a joke.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by armand.kay

that definition of racism has been part of scholarly discourse since the 80s luv, most people who don't rely on alt-right YouTubers for their info already know that though x

It's not the actual working definition, anyone can be racist against anyone else.

[armand.kay]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

It's not the actual working definition, anyone can be racist against anyone else.

if you want to ignore decades of discourse around racism and instead hold onto a basic dictionary definition then hun that you prerogative. I don't really care to change your mind or debate you over it. I just wanted to point out that you were actually very wrong about people getting the racism=power+prejudice definition from a meme.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by armand.kay

if you want to ignore decades of discourse around racism and instead hold onto a basic dictionary definition then hun that you prerogative. I don't really care to change your mind or debate you over it. I just wanted to point out that you were actually very wrong about people getting the racism=power+prejudice definition from a meme.

Some younger people might have most people don't spend a lot of time thinking about racism and researching discussions about it. So they might see the meme, and just take it as read.

[Livia]

No anti-Semitism here... Some anti-Semitism in the Labour party, but only a little tiny bit....

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Some younger people might have most people don't spend a lot of time thinking about racism and researching discussions about it. So they might see the meme, and just take it as read.

You mention this a lot. Almost as though to understand racism and... not be racist, you need a 5 year degree or something.

It doesn't take a lot of time to understand.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Livia

No anti-Semitism here... Some anti-Semitism in the Labour party, but only a little tiny bit....

You've made several posts that pretty much said that people who support labour are anti-semitic in other topics. You've made suggestive comments of the same nature to other people for disagreeing with you.

You use anti-semitism as a weapon to try to silence view points you dislike.

[Livia]

The Anti-Semitic BDS Movement Advocates Illegal Discrimination
By David French

July 18, 2019 3:59 PM


Yesterday, in a rather stunning feat of what looks like malicious trolling, Representative Ilhan Omar co-sponsored a resolution designed to support the anti-Semitic Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions movement against the state of Israel. The resolution itself is clever. It doesn’t mention Israel, and is crafted as an ode to free speech. Its key operative provision merely “affirms that all Americans have the right to participate in boycotts in pursuit of civil and human rights at home and abroad, as protected by the First Amendment to the Constitution.”

Well, yes. Free expression is free expression. Individual anti-Semites have just as much a constitutional right to boycott Israeli products as individual racists have a constitutional right to refuse to patronize black-owned businesses. The fact that the Constitution protects such conduct doesn’t render it any less repugnant, and lest you doubt the underlying intention of Omar’s actions, she made it very clear in an interview with Al-Monitor that the resolution was an “opportunity for us to explain why it is we support a nonviolent movement, which is the BDS movement.”

Supporters of BDS, however, must reckon with some inconvenient facts and some rather important laws: The movement’s anti-Semitism often leads it to advocate violations of the law.

Before I came to National Review, I served as a senior counsel at the American Center for Law and Justice, and we intervened directly to inform BDS-supporting institutions of both the movement’s anti-Semitic roots and its unlawful conduct toward Israeli students and academics.


https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/...iscrimination/

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Livia

The Anti-Semitic BDS Movement Advocates Illegal Discrimination
By David French

July 18, 2019 3:59 PM


Yesterday, in a rather stunning feat of what looks like malicious trolling, Representative Ilhan Omar co-sponsored a resolution designed to support the anti-Semitic Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions movement against the state of Israel. The resolution itself is clever. It doesn’t mention Israel, and is crafted as an ode to free speech. Its key operative provision merely “affirms that all Americans have the right to participate in boycotts in pursuit of civil and human rights at home and abroad, as protected by the First Amendment to the Constitution.”

Well, yes. Free expression is free expression. Individual anti-Semites have just as much a constitutional right to boycott Israeli products as individual racists have a constitutional right to refuse to patronize black-owned businesses. The fact that the Constitution protects such conduct doesn’t render it any less repugnant, and lest you doubt the underlying intention of Omar’s actions, she made it very clear in an interview with Al-Monitor that the resolution was an “opportunity for us to explain why it is we support a nonviolent movement, which is the BDS movement.”

Supporters of BDS, however, must reckon with some inconvenient facts and some rather important laws: The movement’s anti-Semitism often leads it to advocate violations of the law.

Before I came to National Review, I served as a senior counsel at the American Center for Law and Justice, and we intervened directly to inform BDS-supporting institutions of both the movement’s anti-Semitic roots and its unlawful conduct toward Israeli students and academics.


https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/...iscrimination/

That writer puts far too much of their own opinion in to consider this a valid article and it seems mostly to be an exercise in tarring people with the same brush.

[user104658]

What I don't understand I suppose... Is how is it NOT anti-semitic to imply that "Jews" and "Israeli people" are one and the same thing? How is boycotting Israel or being critical of Israeli policy in any way anti-semitic? And are we not entering seriously worrying territory if we start accepting that political stances (such as some of those of the Israeli government) are immune to criticism because of completely unrelated implications?

It feels like as recently as a few years ago there was a broad understanding that "Jews" and "Israel" were not the same thing but there's been a lot of very successful twisting and turning in recent years to make it so that anything other than praise of Israel is "hating on Jews". Which is obviously just not the case?

[user104658]

Even the article right there has a glaring false equivalency - equating boycotting Israeli products to boycotting local black-owned businesses. . The equivalent would be boycotting local Jewish-owned businesses? If anyone is suggesting doing that then yes, obviously, that's antisemitic.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

What I don't understand I suppose... Is how is it NOT anti-semitic to imply that "Jews" and "Israeli people" are one and the same thing? How is boycotting Israel or being critical of Israeli policy in any way anti-semitic? And are we not entering seriously worrying territory if we start accepting that political stances (such as some of those of the Israeli government) are immune to criticism because of completely unrelated implications?

It feels like as recently as a few years ago there was a broad understanding that "Jews" and "Israel" were not the same thing but there's been a lot of very successful twisting and turning in recent years to make it so that anything other than praise of Israel is "hating on Jews". Which is obviously just not the case?

So that the state of Israel can steal more land without worrying about the public opinion? Just a thought.

[Northern Monkey]

Yeah i think it’s saying that supporting the BDS movement is antisemitic because the movement has antisemitic roots,not because boycotting Israeli goods in itself is antisemitic.
Though why it brings black owned shops into it is confusing.Israel is a country not a race.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

What I don't understand I suppose... Is how is it NOT anti-semitic to imply that "Jews" and "Israeli people" are one and the same thing? How is boycotting Israel or being critical of Israeli policy in any way anti-semitic? And are we not entering seriously worrying territory if we start accepting that political stances (such as some of those of the Israeli government) are immune to criticism because of completely unrelated implications?

It feels like as recently as a few years ago there was a broad understanding that "Jews" and "Israel" were not the same thing but there's been a lot of very successful twisting and turning in recent years to make it so that anything other than praise of Israel is "hating on Jews". Which is obviously just not the case?

Exactly, I think we're just heading in a direction in which you can't criticise Israel because the Right are pushing this narrative that to criticise them is anti-semitic. It feels like they are weaponsing anti-semitism because they don't like that, in today's world, they will be called out for racism and such. It's like 'Well if you're gonna call us out on our racism, I'm gonna say you hate Jews!'.

The conflict between Israel and Palestine is a long and complicated one in which neither side comes out smelling like roses but it's important that we see the forest for the trees and not paint out one side to be the heroes and the other villains of this story. Israel have done terrible things during this conflict, they have abused human rights and they have targeted civilians and their actions must be acknowledged for what they are and criticising those actions will never be anti-semitic. There is always a lot made out about Palestine with the focus being on things such as Hamas but it's important that we all acknowledge the wrongs on both sides.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Yeah i think it’s saying that supporting the BDS movement is antisemitic because the movement has antisemitic roots,not because boycotting Israeli goods in itself is antisemitic.
Though why it brings black owned shops into it is confusing.Israel is a country not a race.

Jews consider themselves a separate race.

[arista]

Many are saying
Trump is keeping these 4 women in the news
as they represent the Hard Left
that no one would elect that in USA.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by arista

Many are saying
Trump is keeping these 4 women in the news
as they represent the Hard Left
that no one would elect that in USA.

To be fair they're running Republican campaigns rather effectively

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

Jews consider themselves a separate race.

Again though, NM said "Israel" is not a race, not that Jews are not a race. Are Jews Israel? Is Israel Jews? Are they one and the same? I know there are plenty of non-Israeli *Jews* who would very firmly make the distinction and considering the two to be one and the same is a HUGE problem because while Jews are a race and a religion, Israel and the Israeli government are political entities and its vital that they ARE open to criticism.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Livia

Jews consider themselves a separate race.

I know that Jews are a race and that boycotting shops because the owner is Jewish would definitely be antisemitic.
Boycotting goods from a country only because of their policies is’nt the same thing though.
Whether these BDS people are antisemitic and using Israeli policy as a cover I don’t know as I don’t know enough about them.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Again though, NM said "Israel" is not a race, not that Jews are not a race. Are Jews Israel? Is Israel Jews? Are they one and the same? I know there are plenty of non-Israeli *Jews* who would very firmly make the distinction and considering the two to be one and the same is a HUGE problem because while Jews are a race and a religion, Israel and the Israeli government are political entities and its vital that they ARE open to criticism.

I said Jews consider themselves to be. Jews have thought themselves a race for thousands of years.