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bitontheslide · 26-07-2019, 05:03 AM

A 79-year-old Chinese man appeared in court in New Zealand last week after he pinched a toddler's penis in a swimming pool changing room.

But despite admitting assault, he was let off a charge as the judge accepted his argument that the behaviour was a traditional sign of affection in China, say media reports.

How true is that and how has China reacted?

Last August, in a recreation centre changing room in Christchurch, Chinese man Ren Changfu saw a boy he didn't know getting changed with his father. Ren went over to talk to them, flicked the toddler's penis, laughed and touched it again, New Zealand media report.

The father told Ren to stop and called the police.

The man, who had moved to New Zealand in 2009, told the police that he hadn't known such an action was offensive there, and that the young victim had reminded him of a grandson back in China whom he missed deeply.

Ren's daughter prepared a report that said in China, tweaking a child's penis was a way of showing affection.

Christchurch District Court Judge Alistair Garland accepted the defence's submission and decided there was no sexual motive behind Ren's behaviour, local media reported.

The judge reportedly said Ren was devastated to have upset the family and "willing to do anything he could to make amends", and that his actions "needed to be understood in terms of Mr Ren's culture".

The child's parents have accepted his apology and compensation of NZ$1,000 ($670; £540).

The news has become a talking point on Chinese social media over the past week, with most people saying it's a misinterpretation of societal norms.

Chinese news portal Sohu reposted the anecdote on Weibo, sparking huge controversy.

Among more than 1,200 comments, about 300 said they had never thought of the action as being part of the culture. Nearly 200 said they'd seen or heard about it decades ago in certain rural areas, practiced by the old people, but that it was a dying habit widely seen now as ugly.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-china-blog-49093697

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Very dodgy if you ask me, seems like another avenue for a perv to strike.

Cherie · 26-07-2019, 06:37 AM

very strange behaviour, I mean when would you greet someone with affection like this in the normal day to day even back in the olden days....

doing it in front of the Dad as well

Ammi · 26-07-2019, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

A 79-year-old Chinese man appeared in court in New Zealand last week after he pinched a toddler's penis in a swimming pool changing room.

But despite admitting assault, he was let off a charge as the judge accepted his argument that the behaviour was a traditional sign of affection in China, say media reports.

How true is that and how has China reacted?

Last August, in a recreation centre changing room in Christchurch, Chinese man Ren Changfu saw a boy he didn't know getting changed with his father. Ren went over to talk to them, flicked the toddler's penis, laughed and touched it again, New Zealand media report.

The father told Ren to stop and called the police.

The man, who had moved to New Zealand in 2009, told the police that he hadn't known such an action was offensive there, and that the young victim had reminded him of a grandson back in China whom he missed deeply.

Ren's daughter prepared a report that said in China, tweaking a child's penis was a way of showing affection.

Christchurch District Court Judge Alistair Garland accepted the defence's submission and decided there was no sexual motive behind Ren's behaviour, local media reported.

The judge reportedly said Ren was devastated to have upset the family and "willing to do anything he could to make amends", and that his actions "needed to be understood in terms of Mr Ren's culture".

The child's parents have accepted his apology and compensation of NZ$1,000 ($670; £540).

The news has become a talking point on Chinese social media over the past week, with most people saying it's a misinterpretation of societal norms.

Chinese news portal Sohu reposted the anecdote on Weibo, sparking huge controversy.

Among more than 1,200 comments, about 300 said they had never thought of the action as being part of the culture. Nearly 200 said they'd seen or heard about it decades ago in certain rural areas, practiced by the old people, but that it was a dying habit widely seen now as ugly.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-china-blog-49093697

-------

Very dodgy if you ask me, seems like another avenue for a perv to strike.

...I did google to see if it was something known as some type of ancient culture and nothing came up..(...Lord knows what my googling history will say about me...)...it seem odd because he’d lived in NZ for 10 yrs ...but the parents seem to have accepted there was innocent intent...as has the judge...interesting that 200 comments out of 1200 were stating that the practise was known to them...but obviously something there was no place in society for...

joeysteele · 26-07-2019, 07:06 AM

Sounds very dubious.

I know Chinese customs are you greet the older person first.
That they will look to the ground maybe when greeting.

I haven't heard of this one however.
His defence lawyer seems to have done a clever bit of possible inventiveness.

One would have thought however, any judges would want to have seen hard evidence of such a weird er, 'custom'.

bitontheslide · 26-07-2019, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ammi

...I did google to see if it was something known as some type of ancient culture and nothing came up..(...Lord knows what my googling history will say about me...)...it seem odd because he’d lived in NZ for 10 yrs ...but the parents seem to have accepted there was innocent intent...as has the judge...interesting that 200 comments out of 1200 were stating that the practise was known to them...but obviously something there was no place in society for...

I thought this thread would add some balance to the other emotive one .... to my mind any dodgy workarounds should be stamped out

Niamh. · 26-07-2019, 07:10 AM

I'm not sure "it's a custom in my country"
should have been accepted, what's that phrase? Ignorance of the law is no excuse?

Ammi · 26-07-2019, 07:12 AM

...I wonder if it will have any emotional effects on the child which may be displayed as he gets older...

Cherie · 26-07-2019, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I'm not sure "it's a custom in my country"
should have been accepted, what's that phrase? Ignorance of the law is no excuse?

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk

Indeed, unless he is suffering from dementia, you would think that would be mentioned though

Ammi · 26-07-2019, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I thought this thread would add some balance to the other emotive one .... to my mind any dodgy workarounds should be stamped out

...yeah I was combining what I was googling yesterday with this morning’s activity...

...

Cherie · 26-07-2019, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I thought this thread would add some balance to the other emotive one .... to my mind any dodgy workarounds should be stamped out

well lets hope we are not all deemed racists for having the temerity to have an opinion on a chinese person

Amy Jade · 26-07-2019, 08:47 AM

Not defending the guy at all or saying the 'tradition' was right but the fact he did it in front of the father says it was never meant to be predatory or anything so I think an apology and compensation is about right.

He shouldn't do it at all though it's just odd.

Niamh. · 26-07-2019, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Jade

Not defending the guy at all or saying the 'tradition' was right but the fact he did it in front of the father says it was never meant to be predatory or anything so I think an apology and compensation is about right.

He shouldn't do it at all though it's just odd.

Does it matter whether it was done in front of the father or not though, it's the child who was inappropriately touched not his dad and that happened regardless of who was there

Toy Soldier · 26-07-2019, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherie

well lets hope we are not all deemed racists for having the temerity to have an opinion on a chinese person

Racist, no. A bit sad and petty for dragging things from thread to thread, yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Jade

Not defending the guy at all or saying the 'tradition' was right but the fact he did it in front of the father says it was never meant to be predatory or anything so I think an apology and compensation is about right.

He shouldn't do it at all though it's just odd.

This sort of stands out to me, too; if he was deliberately trying to molest a child it would be VERY unusual for him to do it with the kid's dad right there... Not to mention dangerous, there are plenty of dads who would get physical before calling the police.

Obviously it's really bizarre behaviour, and while I understand to an extent the judge choosing to be lenient I also agree with Niamh above that ignorance of the law isn't supposed to be an excuse. I think some sort of non-custodial charge would have been warranted. But then, if the parents accepted the apology, their wishes were probably taken into account too.

Amy Jade · 26-07-2019, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Does it matter whether it was done in front of the father or not though, it's the child who was inappropriately touched not his dad and that happened regardless of who was there

It was a baby though so surely the parents are the ones who have to be compensated?

Vicky. · 26-07-2019, 11:45 AM

Well, IMO if it was actually custom to greet kids by nipping their penis, then the areas where this is considered fine..are not fine!

Horrid man. Father should have grabbed twisted and pulled and said it was the way he greets people tbh, bet the guy wouldn't be impressed with that.

Poor kid.

Northern Monkey · 26-07-2019, 05:05 PM

I am highly skeptical of this being a custom anywhere.
If he’d done that to one of my kids i’d have knocked him out.

I don’t believe this is a thing on this planet.Sounds like a perv trying to use his immigrant status as an excuse.