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Kizzy · 07-08-2019, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

and that's why there is no point discussing anything with you

I'm not the only one who thinks your generalised ' reasoned argument' suggestion is piss poor,unless you can explain what in your mind constitutes a reasoned argument? One that won't be shot down as any of the examples I stated earlier...
The fact is you can't, so you end the debate which is fine, except you're atempting to blame me for your short comings and I'm not willing to accept that.

Tom4784 · 07-08-2019, 01:20 PM

You can't have reasoned debate with irrational people and a lot of Trump's base is irrational and beyond reason at this point. I think a lot of other people who ended up voting for him last time who aren't extreme in their views have probably turned their back on him by now. The only people left on his side are the extreme elements who can't really be reasoned with.

The Slim Reaper · 07-08-2019, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arista

"condemn racism,
bigotry and
white supremacy,"

bitontheslide · 07-08-2019, 01:47 PM

Trump has a base of 30% and it doesn't matter what is said, they will always support him. The moment someone throws bigot or whatever generalised insult at them, the undecided then need to make a yes or no choice .... Is he a bigot or not. Throwing that term around is a cop out, there is much more chance of someone taking offence if they even slightly agree with Trump and are by association being classed as a bigot thus bringing more to the side of Trump.

Use reasoned argument, it's not so clear cut, people don't feel the need to join with and support "the bigot". It's non polarising, it avoids creating division.

At the moment, most of the dems are falling for it every time

The Slim Reaper · 07-08-2019, 01:56 PM

Don't call rapists, rapists said the concerned citizen; they won't realise rape is wrong if you call them out for rape.

Twosugars · 07-08-2019, 01:58 PM

We are not politicians so we can afford talking straight
I agree that Dems need to address the same issues as trump does, but in a measured way
But, they also need to call out his demagoguery and hate-mongering.

Withano · 07-08-2019, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Trump has a base of 30% and it doesn't matter what is said, they will always support him. The moment someone throws bigot or whatever generalised insult at them, the undecided then need to make a yes or no choice .... Is he a bigot or not. Throwing that term around is a cop out, there is much more chance of someone taking offence if they even slightly agree with Trump and are by association being classed as a bigot thus bringing more to the side of Trump.

Use reasoned argument, it's not so clear cut, people don't feel the need to join with and support "the bigot". It's non polarising, it avoids creating division.

At the moment, most of the dems are falling for it every time

The argument is actually over when a bigot defends their views with bigotry, not once they’re called a bigot.

I’d imagine the bigot would then kick up a fuss which is probably why you’ve said what you’ve said cos the discussion will turn to squabbles. But na, they lose when they bring outdated views to the present day.

GiRTh · 07-08-2019, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Trump has a base of 30% and it doesn't matter what is said, they will always support him. The moment someone throws bigot or whatever generalised insult at them, the undecided then need to make a yes or no choice .... Is he a bigot or not. Throwing that term around is a cop out, there is much more chance of someone taking offence if they even slightly agree with Trump and are by association being classed as a bigot thus bringing more to the side of Trump.

Use reasoned argument, it's not so clear cut, people don't feel the need to join with and support "the bigot". It's non polarising, it avoids creating division.

At the moment, most of the dems are falling for it every time

In your first sentence you are kind of agreeing with TS that the 30% wont hear reasoned arguments. Define 'reasoned argument' please cuz I'm not sure what you mean. I hear alot of reasoned arguments answered by that 30% with outrageous bias.

Regarding anyone who aligns themselves with Donnies rhetoric. I dont deny there are immigration issues all over the world but to talk of an 'invasion' and 'infestation' I dont think reasonable people align themselves with such views.

arista · 07-08-2019, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Yes he loves talking before he Fly's off
to meet the Mayor in El Paso. today.

Twosugars · 07-08-2019, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Don't call rapists, rapists said the concerned citizen; they won't realise rape is wrong if you call them out for rape.

Not rapists, but people with non-consensual sex preference. We mustn't forgo a reasoned dialogue

bitontheslide · 07-08-2019, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiRTh

In your first sentence you are kind of agreeing with TS that the 30% wont hear reasoned arguments. Define 'reasoned argument' please cuz I'm not sure what you mean. I hear alot of reasoned arguments answered by that 30% with outrageous bias.

Regarding anyone who aligns themselves with Donnies rhetoric. I dont deny there are immigration issues all over the world but to talk of an 'invasion' and 'infestation' I dont think reasonable people align themselves with such views.

Lets start with the fact that bigot is a very generalised insult. It's not a term of endearment. The moment it is used it forces people to say no he is not or yes he is ... it polarising.

If an undecided voter agrees with anything that "the bigot" says, then he is by association a bigot and becomes equally offended. That's how Trump gets voters

Trump uses terms like infestation and invasion because he knows it triggers the dems and makes them come back with ... you racist bas ... polarising .... because at the end of the day, there is an immigration problem, everyone knows it .... everyone knows something needs to be done .... but here are the dems calling Trump a racist bas for suggesting it

Everything Trump does is planned to divide and polarise ... and with the exception of one or two like Nancy, he gets them every time.

Tom4784 · 07-08-2019, 02:23 PM

Sometimes a spade is a spade and calling it any different doesn't help anyone.

GiRTh · 07-08-2019, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Lets start with the fact that bigot is a very generalised insult. It's not a term of endearment. The moment it is used it forces people to say no he is not or yes he is ... it polarising.

If an undecided voter agrees with anything that "the bigot" says, then he is by association a bigot and becomes equally offended. That's how Trump gets voters

Trump uses terms like infestation and invasion because he knows it triggers the dems and makes them come back with ... you racist bas ... polarising .... because at the end of the day, there is an immigration problem, everyone knows it .... everyone knows something needs to be done .... but here are the dems calling Trump a racist bas for suggesting it

Everything Trump does is planned to divide and polarise ... and with the exception of one or two like Nancy, he gets them every time.

This makes a bunch of assumptions. Are you talking specifically about Donnies immigration views? I agree with Trump on some issues - like draining the swamp and the ineffectiveness of congress - but its his rhetoric and bear baiting that disgusts me. I dont expect to be called a bigot for that and I dont think anyone has.

His views on immigration are indeed deliberately polarizing, I agree, He knows exactly what he's doing and he's stepping it up at the moment. I think if anyone aligns themselves with this disgusting way of describing people then questions need to asked. The name calling is too much but questions definitely need to be asked.

The Slim Reaper · 07-08-2019, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arista

Yes he loves talking before he Fly's off
to meet the Mayor in El Paso. today.

So going back to your point that he had changed his views, does that seem as though he's been in a mode of self reflection since the shootings?

parmnion · 08-08-2019, 01:36 PM

Its surely a factor of everything..

Maybe not this shooting, but certainly other mass killings can have the problems of these violent games on a young mind at the forefront of its cause..

Trump's language before this event has been somewhat misguided and unfortunate but the left has jumped on this and trumps words for thier own gain..trump says infestation...the left, on all news outlets I've been watching have used that word "infestation" and added other words like cockroaches etc to make trump look disgusting..

I don't think of cockroaches when I hear that word..I think of mice or nettles in the garden..

So in summary, I do believe that violent games and indeed the Internet can have a very negative and sometimes damaging effect on a young brain..and even more so on a young brain already struggling with other things.

Vicky. · 08-08-2019, 01:42 PM

I do agree that bigot is very very overused currently. Seems to be shouted at anyone who has a different view to the 'accepted leftie one'. I say this as a leftie myself too..but yeah. Have seen many instances of bigot being used for no reason other than to shut down someones opinion. Oddly enough, some of those shouting bigot are actually bigots themselves..if we go by the 'a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions' definition.

parmnion · 08-08-2019, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I do agree that bigot is very very overused currently. Seems to be shouted at anyone who has a different view to the 'accepted leftie one'. I say this as a leftie myself too..but yeah. Have seen many instances of bigot being used for no reason other than to shut down someones opinion. Oddly enough, some of those shouting bigot are actually bigots themselves..if we go by the 'a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions' definition.

Surprised you're a lefty...some of the violence and intoletance you have described yourself doing on here sounds more right wing than left, if that's whats to be believed of the left and right in the various acusations that are flung from side to side that is.

Vicky. · 08-08-2019, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parmnion

Surprised you're a lefty...some of the violence and intoletance you have described yourself doing on here sounds more right wing than left, if that's whats to be believed of the left and right in the various acusations that are flung from side to side that is.

You equate violence with right wing? I wouldn't. Far right maybe, not right in general.

I am probably quite centre overall, but lean more left than anything else. Tbh, my views are all over the place, but tend to be more aligning with the left wing than right

Would also be interested in what violence and intolerance you are talking about?

parmnion · 08-08-2019, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky.

You equate violence with right wing? I wouldn't. Far right maybe, not right in general.

I am probably quite centre overall, but lean more left than anything else. Tbh, my views are all over the place, but tend to be more aligning with the left wing than right

I don't. ..but it can't be denied that many many people do.

All those stories about you fighting and arguing with people in the past led me to believe what I posted.

Vicky. · 08-08-2019, 02:00 PM

Ha. I can be argumentative sure. But I still tend to align mainly with the left wing. Been distancing myself purposely recently though, as I disagree with how things seem to be going..waaaaay too polarised for me and just screaming 'bigot' at someone with a diffrent opinion really doesn't work for me tbh.