[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Trump's just an easy target for people to deflect the attention away from thier own devious motives.

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

You can be racist and against open borders while being left wing.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Trump's just an easy target for people to deflect the attention away from thier own devious motives.

This is very true parmy

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

This is very true parmy

Hi.

[Kizzy]

He's an easy target because he's literally a fascist.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

He's an easy target because he's literally a fascist.

Yup. I can imagine germans saying the same about hitler, he meant well you know

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

He's an easy target because he's literally a fascist.

Fascism is a form of radical right-wing, authoritarian ultranationalism
Doesn't really apply to Trump. He's not been especially nationalistic, and he's rolled back too many regulations to be called overly authoritarian.

characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition,
Nope.


and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.
Again, he's more into deregulation and free market.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

He's not been especially nationalistic,.

Nationalistic

adjective

having or expressing strong identification with one's own nation and vigorous support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Nationalistic

adjective

having or expressing strong identification with one's own nation and vigorous support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations.

When has he done this?

Saying "maybe it's a good idea if we know who's coming into the country" isn't like that.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

When has he done this?

Saying "maybe it's a good idea if we know who's coming into the country" isn't like that.

Actually it is. He's twice tried to implement a Muslim ban, the wall, etc. No doubt you'll have an answer for those but one you wont is pulling out of the Iran deal. That was nationalism one on one.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Actually it is. He's twice tried to implement a Muslim ban, the wall, etc. No doubt you'll have an answer for those but one you wont is pulling out of the Iran deal. That was nationalism one on one.

The muslim ban only applied to a few countries which had been affected by terrorism, and the wall's aim is to stop illegal immigration, not all.

[GiRTh]

I knew you'd have an answer for that but not the Iran deal. Nicely downplayed.

Trump also want to pull out of NATO. Explain how that and the Iran deal arent acts of nationalism?

[Liam-]

Let’s not forget the whole ‘good people on both sides’ thing concerning literal nazis

[Twosugars]

Is Donald Trump a fascist? The question is usually posed as an insult rather than as a serious inquiry. A common response is that “he is not as bad as Hitler”, but this rather dodges the issue. Hitler was one hideous exponent of fascism, which comes in different flavours but he was by no means the only one.

The answer is that fascist leaders and fascism in the 1920s and 1930s were similar in many respects to Trump and Trumpism. But they had additional toxic characteristics, born out of a different era and a historic experience different from the United States.


What are the most important features of fascism? They include ultra-nationalism and authoritarianism; the demonisation and persecution of minorities; a cult of the leader; a demagogic appeal to the “ignored” masses and against a “treacherous” establishment; contempt for parliamentary institutions; disregard for the law while standing on a law and order platform; control of the media and the crushing of criticism; slogans promising everything to everybody; a promotion of force as a means to an end leading to violence, militarism and war.


The list could go on to include less significant traits such as a liking for public displays of strength and popularity at rallies and parades; a liking also for gigantic building projects as the physical embodiment of power.

Hitler and Mussolini ticked all these boxes and Trump ticks most of them, though with some important exceptions. German and Italian fascism was characterised above all else by aggressive and ultimately disastrous wars. Trump, on the contrary, is a genuine “isolationist” who has not started a single war in the two-and-a-half years he has been in the White House.

It is not that Trump abjures force, but he prefers it to be commercial and economic rather than military, and he is deploying it against numerous countries from China to Mexico and Iran. As a strategy this is astute, avoiding the bear traps that American military intervention fell into in Iraq and Afghanistan. It is an approach which weakens the targeted state economically, but it does not produce decisive victories or unconditional surrenders.

The independent

The orange moron is a fascist wannabe constrained by the American system

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Fascism is a form of radical right-wing, authoritarian ultranationalism
Doesn't really apply to Trump. He's not been especially nationalistic, and he's rolled back too many regulations to be called overly authoritarian.

His entire election platform was built on ultranationalism and he's constantly shown isolationist leanings in both domestic actions and international relations. He rolls back things that he doesn't agree with and attempts to hammer in his own ideas in their place. This is just nonsense.

characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition,
Nope.

He constantly denounces any opposition to himself as "un-American" or even treasonous. Or he just announces it to be "fake". He employs all sorts of tactics to attempt to make any criticism of himself seem illegitimate and those criticising him incompetent or to have ulterior motives. He removes journalists and reporters who are critical of him from events or bans them from being there in the first place. That is "forcible suppression" in a modern context.

and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.
Again, he's more into deregulation and free market.

Deregulation and free market? Within the US itself maybe - because he's an ultranationalist. When it comes to international trade, he's taking constant action to outright vilify products from China, and waving trade deals at the UK like a carrot to get us to fall in line with US policy.


Come on.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Fascism is a form of radical right-wing, authoritarian ultranationalism
Doesn't really apply to Trump. He's not been especially nationalistic, and he's rolled back too many regulations to be called overly authoritarian.

characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition,
Nope.


and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.
Again, he's more into deregulation and free market.

Neo fascism.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

You can be left wing while being racist and/or against immigration.

Elizabeth Warren isn't a religion, no-one's claiming he based his every move based on things she's said. But the fact remains that he has voiced support for her and against Trump.

she is to me though, the one who could save america, and FINALLY make the evil super rich pay more taxes as it should

she stands up for all poor people in america, and i hope she'll also demolish the stupid trump wall

[thesheriff443]

There has been mass shootings under lots of presidents time in power.

Presidents themselves have been shot and killed.

People that are willing to kill innocent people including women and children are not right in the head regardless of their reasons for doing it.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Let’s not forget the whole ‘good people on both sides’ thing concerning literal nazis

Then I guess we should also not forget the actual context of that remark

"They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides.

"And you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly.

"Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people. But you also had troublemakers, and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets, and with the baseball bats. You had a lot of bad people in the other group."

[Twosugars]

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/...f-fascism.html

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/hi...cist-politics/

[Denver]

With Trump its always

White person guns down alot of people - They are mentally Ill and need help

Muslim guns down alot of people - They are a terrorist and they must be all killed

[bots]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Then I guess we should also not forget the actual context of that remark

"They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides.

"And you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly.

"Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people. But you also had troublemakers, and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets, and with the baseball bats. You had a lot of bad people in the other group."

You could say the same about the Nazi party. I'm sure they were some people in that party that wouldn't say boo to a goose, but they were a member of and supported an organisation hell bent on genocide. That's the point.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

You could say the same about the Nazi party. I'm sure they were some people in that party that wouldn't say boo to a goose, but they were a member of and supported an organisation hell bent on genocide. That's the point.

Not comparable as Trump has never voiced support for genocide.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Not comparable as Trump has never voiced support for genocide.

An attempted ban on all muslims, calling countries ****holes, demeaning latinos may not be genocide, but it enables it.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

An attempted ban on all muslims, calling countries ****holes, demeaning latinos may not be genocide, but it enables it.

He never attempted to ban all muslims, the ban was only for a handful of countries which were highly affected by terrorism.
Calling countries ****holes is dodgy language, I agree he shouldn't have said it. I don't know which incident of "demeaning Latinos" you're referring to, but again it was never all of them, unless you know of a quote I haven't encountered.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

He never attempted to ban all muslims, the ban was only for a handful of countries which were highly affected by terrorism.
Calling countries ****holes is dodgy language, I agree he shouldn't have said it. I don't know which incident of "demeaning Latinos" you're referring to, but again it was never all of them, unless you know of a quote I haven't encountered.

Here's the rub if you insist on using that logic; the saudis are a huge terror hotspot, providing most of the 9/11 attackers and funding it, the genocide in Yemen also has their dirty hands all over it, and yet Trump and his family said nothing about it, while Jared was busy begging for MBS's money on whatsapp.

If I don't like one black person, so call him a dumb N, is that ok because I didn't mean all black people?