[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm talking about the best way to handle them in order to convince them to vaccinate and address a large issue, I'm not saying treat them with kid gloves out of concern for their feelings . Honestly when it comes right down to it I don't care all THAT much about how you speak to them, so long as no one starts sticking needles in anyone with dubious levels of consent. (Remember: consent under duress is NOT consent.)


All of this aside... I've not even started on one of my main gripes with "vax-hyperbole" rhetoric. The constantly touted (and completely incorrect) assertion that infant and child mortality rates have dramatically dropped over the last century thanks to vaccination.

This is false. Vaccination has improved rates slightly, but it is MINISCULE in comparison to the ACTUAL reason for the vast reduction in infant mortality. Which is undeniably, 100%, the discovery of penicillin and further development of anti-biotics.

Why is this important? Because anti-biotics are at risk. Ironically, they're MOST at risk from exactly the same people who are furious at other parents for not vaccinating; the parents who rush their kids for AB's at the slightest cough. And the doctors who over-prescribe them. The effects of AB resistance have the potential to be utterly catastrophic, orders of magnitude above what would happen if EVERYONE stopped vaccinating tomorrow.

But how do you even begin to convince the public of the FACT that anti-biotics are the real reason - almost entirely - for reduced child death, and that we must preserve working anti-biotics and reduce AB resistance progression at all costs - when there's a horde of other people insisting that reduced child mortality is all thanks to vaccination? It's very difficult. Very, very difficult. The idea that vaccines have "saved the children" is firmly rooted in the public mindset.

More attempts at validating the anti-vaxx movement while not dealing with the utter hypocrisy how you approach the different sides. You're just being the Abby Huntsman of anti-vaxx.

At the end of the day we are seeing a rise of infection rates of illnesses that were almost non-existent before, that's purely because of the anti-vaxx movement and their stupidity is putting people who genuinely have valid reasons to not be vaccinated at risk. You can jump through as many hoops as you like but thousands of kids get immunised every day without incident and everything that anti-vaxxers preach is basically bull**** regurgitated from a conman doctor that was struck off the register.

Even if this bill goes through, it's not gonna force parents to immunise their children, it just means that if their insane beliefs are more important to them then the well being of their child, they'll have to homeschool them instead.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

More attempts at validating the anti-vaxx movement while not dealing with the utter hypocrisy how you approach the different sides. You're just being the Abby Huntsman of anti-vaxx.

If pretending that I'm an anti-vax shill helps you to get your head around advocating distasteful levels of government authoritarianism, then by all means continue. I'm not and have presented numerous rguments for vaccination throughout this thread. Just... you know... real ones, instead of imaginary ones.

At the end of the day we are seeing a rise of infection rates of illnesses that were almost non-existent before, that's purely because of the anti-vaxx movement and their stupidity is putting people who genuinely have valid reasons to not be vaccinated at risk. You can jump through as many hoops as you like but thousands of kids get immunised every day without incident and everything that anti-vaxxers preach is basically bull**** regurgitated from a conman doctor that was struck off the register.

I don't disagree with any of that (unless you're trying to claim that vaccine injury rate is zero?), it's just not enough to convince me that the best way to address it is through lies and misquoted statistics, or that it justifies the tacit removal of bodily autonomy by government. Never, ever will.

Even if this bill goes through, it's not gonna force parents to immunise their children, it just means that if their insane beliefs are more important to them then the well being of their child, they'll have to homeschool them instead.

Consent under duress is not consent. This is a concept that already applies to medical procedure consent. This stuff is far more vital to a well-functioning world than vaccination rates. Maybe you don't agree, and that's fine too.