Notices

Serious Debates & News Debate and discussion about political, moral, philosophical, celebrity and news topics.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-11-2019, 10:38 AM #1
Oliver_W's Avatar
Oliver_W Oliver_W is offline
POW! BLAM!
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bill's Secret Garden
Posts: 15,932

Favourites (more):
BBCanada 8: Chris
Apprentice 2019: Lottie


Oliver_W Oliver_W is offline
POW! BLAM!
Oliver_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bill's Secret Garden
Posts: 15,932

Favourites (more):
BBCanada 8: Chris
Apprentice 2019: Lottie


Default Do we need a different term for "Far Right" extremists?

I'm largely indifferent when it comes to politics but on most things I either don't care or lean right, and I have nothing in common with the extremists who are increasingly making a nuisance of themselves.
Nor do any prominent right wing politicians, who are closer to being neoliberalists than anything else. Most are either pro-gay or don't take an active position. Most are for limited immigration. None support the acts of terror carried out by right wing extremists.

I've noticed that feathers get ruffled around here when such extremists are referred to as right wing, and I can see why. Maybe it'd be more productive if they were just labelled as neo-nazis, as absolutely no-one with a brainstem identifies with them, and fascism doesn't fit easily into the left-to-right scale as it contains elements of both extremes, sitting on top of the horseshoe.
__________________


Oliver_W is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 12:02 PM #2
arista's Avatar
arista arista is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 165,048
arista arista is online now
Senior Member
arista's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 165,048
Default

Neo Nazi's is Fine
for Extreme Far Right Wingers
arista is online now   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 12:27 PM #3
Toy Soldier Toy Soldier is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 30,350


Toy Soldier Toy Soldier is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 30,350


Default

I think it would be bloody hilarious if we stop referring to the extreme right wing as "far right" because it hurts the feelyfeels of your average Joe Tory, whilst still happily referring to ISIS et all as "Islamic Extremists" when there are well over 1.5 billion peaceful Muslims in the world.

For YEARS there has been this rhetoric that the general Muslim community "must take ownership, must take responsibility" for their extreme fringes.

And yet the suggestion is that we should rebrand extreme right-wing attacks under a new name because its "not fair on the normal right wing folks"? Err no. The non-extreme right are often a huge part of bolstering and encouraging the actions of right wing extremists so I don't think a free pass to make them feel more comfortable is warranted in the slightest.
Toy Soldier is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 12:35 PM #4
Oliver_W's Avatar
Oliver_W Oliver_W is offline
POW! BLAM!
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bill's Secret Garden
Posts: 15,932

Favourites (more):
BBCanada 8: Chris
Apprentice 2019: Lottie


Oliver_W Oliver_W is offline
POW! BLAM!
Oliver_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bill's Secret Garden
Posts: 15,932

Favourites (more):
BBCanada 8: Chris
Apprentice 2019: Lottie


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier View Post
I think it would be bloody hilarious if we stop referring to the extreme right wing as "far right" because it hurts the feelyfeels of your average Joe Tory, whilst still happily referring to ISIS et all as "Islamic Extremists" when there are well over 1.5 billion peaceful Muslims in the world.

For YEARS there has been this rhetoric that the general Muslim community "must take ownership, must take responsibility" for their extreme fringes.

And yet the suggestion is that we should rebrand extreme right-wing attacks under a new name because its "not fair on the normal right wing folks"? Err no. The non-extreme right are often a huge part of bolstering and encouraging the actions of right wing extremists so I don't think a free pass to make them feel more comfortable is warranted in the slightest.
Islamic extremism is directly influenced by the Qur'an and Hadiths, and the acts are carried out due to the religion.

Racism has no place in politics, racist attacks are carried out because the perpetrator is racist, not because they are right wing.
__________________



Last edited by Oliver_W; 09-11-2019 at 12:35 PM.
Oliver_W is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 12:48 PM #5
Toy Soldier Toy Soldier is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 30,350


Toy Soldier Toy Soldier is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 30,350


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver_W View Post
Islamic extremism is directly influenced by the Qur'an and Hadiths, and the acts are carried out due to the religion.

Racism has no place in politics, racist attacks are carried out because the perpetrator is racist, not because they are right wing.
Current right wing political rhetoric legitimises xenophobia and bolsters extremists by making them believe that "plenty of people are low-key on their side", which encourages them to act.

Far right incidents are on the rise. The individuals carrying out the actions were just as far right as they are now before the incidents began to rise. They are ACTING on their beliefs, because there is an impression that the public mindset is shifting towards one that "quietly" supports the underlying philosophies of those extreme actions.

Katie Hopkins and Nigel Farage aren't going to kill anyone but I absolutely guarantee that their words lead to killing.
Toy Soldier is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 12:49 PM #6
Kizzy's Avatar
Kizzy Kizzy is offline
Likes cars that go boom
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41,755


Kizzy Kizzy is offline
Likes cars that go boom
Kizzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41,755


Default

Whats wrong with fascists?...
__________________
Kizzy is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 12:51 PM #7
Kizzy's Avatar
Kizzy Kizzy is offline
Likes cars that go boom
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41,755


Kizzy Kizzy is offline
Likes cars that go boom
Kizzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41,755


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by toy soldier View Post
i think it would be bloody hilarious if we stop referring to the extreme right wing as "far right" because it hurts the feelyfeels of your average joe tory, whilst still happily referring to isis et all as "islamic extremists" when there are well over 1.5 billion peaceful muslims in the world.

For years there has been this rhetoric that the general muslim community "must take ownership, must take responsibility" for their extreme fringes.

And yet the suggestion is that we should rebrand extreme right-wing attacks under a new name because its "not fair on the normal right wing folks"? Err no. The non-extreme right are often a huge part of bolstering and encouraging the actions of right wing extremists so i don't think a free pass to make them feel more comfortable is warranted in the slightest.
__________________
Kizzy is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 12:52 PM #8
Firewire's Avatar
Firewire Firewire is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 34,360

Favourites:
BBUSA22: Janelle


Firewire Firewire is offline
Senior Member
Firewire's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 34,360

Favourites:
BBUSA22: Janelle


Default

Nazi fits just fine
Firewire is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 12:53 PM #9
Oliver_W's Avatar
Oliver_W Oliver_W is offline
POW! BLAM!
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bill's Secret Garden
Posts: 15,932

Favourites (more):
BBCanada 8: Chris
Apprentice 2019: Lottie


Oliver_W Oliver_W is offline
POW! BLAM!
Oliver_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bill's Secret Garden
Posts: 15,932

Favourites (more):
BBCanada 8: Chris
Apprentice 2019: Lottie


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier View Post
Current right wing political rhetoric legitimises xenophobia and bolsters extremists by making them believe that "plenty of people are low-key on their side", which encourages them to act.

Far right incidents are on the rise. The individuals carrying out the actions were just as far right as they are now before the incidents began to rise. They are ACTING on their beliefs, because there is an impression that the public mindset is shifting towards one that "quietly" supports the underlying philosophies of those extreme actions.

Katie Hopkins and Nigel Farage aren't going to kill anyone but I absolutely guarantee that their words lead to killing.
The people who actually carry out the attacks likely don't have any political views apart from racism, so calling them "right wing" isn't valid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy View Post
Whats wrong with fascists?...
Everything is wrong with them, they're scum!
__________________


Oliver_W is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 12:53 PM #10
Oliver_W's Avatar
Oliver_W Oliver_W is offline
POW! BLAM!
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bill's Secret Garden
Posts: 15,932

Favourites (more):
BBCanada 8: Chris
Apprentice 2019: Lottie


Oliver_W Oliver_W is offline
POW! BLAM!
Oliver_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bill's Secret Garden
Posts: 15,932

Favourites (more):
BBCanada 8: Chris
Apprentice 2019: Lottie


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firewire View Post
Nazi fits just fine
Agreed.
__________________


Oliver_W is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 12:57 PM #11
Twosugars Twosugars is offline
Stiff Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: London
Posts: 9,384
Twosugars Twosugars is offline
Stiff Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: London
Posts: 9,384
Default

Far right it is.

Far-right politics are politics further on the right of the left-right spectrum than the standard political right, particularly in terms of extreme nationalism,[1][2] nativist ideologies, and authoritarian tendencies,[3] all sustained by an organicist vision of the world.[4]

Used to describe the historical experiences of fascism and Nazism,[5] it today includes neo-fascism, neo-Nazism, Third Position, the alt-right,[6] and other ideologies or organizations that feature ultranationalist, chauvinist, xenophobic, racist, anti-communist, or reactionary views.[7] These can lead to oppression, violence, forced assimilation, ethnic cleansing, and even genocide against groups of people based on their supposed inferiority, or their perceived threat to the native ethnic group,[8][9] nation, state,[10] national religion, dominant culture or ultraconservative traditional social institutions.
[11]


The answer to this nonsensical proposition is no.

The rest of the world calls it far right and theres no reason for tibb to be different
Twosugars is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 01:00 PM #12
Kizzy's Avatar
Kizzy Kizzy is offline
Likes cars that go boom
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41,755


Kizzy Kizzy is offline
Likes cars that go boom
Kizzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41,755


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver_W View Post
The people who actually carry out the attacks likely don't have any political views apart from racism, so calling them "right wing" isn't valid.

Everything is wrong with them, they're scum!
I meant as a term for the far right extremists obv lol
__________________
Kizzy is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 01:07 PM #13
Cherie's Avatar
Cherie Cherie is offline
This Witch doesn't burn
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 61,427

Favourites (more):
Strictly 2020: Bill Bailey
BB19: Sian


Cherie Cherie is offline
This Witch doesn't burn
Cherie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 61,427

Favourites (more):
Strictly 2020: Bill Bailey
BB19: Sian


Default

Far Left, Far Right, two peas in a pod as far as I'm concerned
__________________


'put a bit of lippy on and run a brush through your hair, we are alcoholics, not savages'
Cherie is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 01:14 PM #14
Oliver_W's Avatar
Oliver_W Oliver_W is offline
POW! BLAM!
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bill's Secret Garden
Posts: 15,932

Favourites (more):
BBCanada 8: Chris
Apprentice 2019: Lottie


Oliver_W Oliver_W is offline
POW! BLAM!
Oliver_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bill's Secret Garden
Posts: 15,932

Favourites (more):
BBCanada 8: Chris
Apprentice 2019: Lottie


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twosugars View Post
Far right it is.

Far-right politics are politics further on the right of the left-right spectrum than the standard political right, particularly in terms of extreme nationalism,[1][2] nativist ideologies, and authoritarian tendencies,[3] all sustained by an organicist vision of the world.[4]

Used to describe the historical experiences of fascism and Nazism,[5] it today includes neo-fascism, neo-Nazism, Third Position, the alt-right,[6] and other ideologies or organizations that feature ultranationalist, chauvinist, xenophobic, racist, anti-communist, or reactionary views.[7] These can lead to oppression, violence, forced assimilation, ethnic cleansing, and even genocide against groups of people based on their supposed inferiority, or their perceived threat to the native ethnic group,[8][9] nation, state,[10] national religion, dominant culture or ultraconservative traditional social institutions.
[11]


The answer to this nonsensical proposition is no.

The rest of the world calls it far right and theres no reason for tibb to be different
Xenophobia, racism, and chauvinism aren't exclusively right wing though.
__________________


Oliver_W is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 01:42 PM #15
Kizzy's Avatar
Kizzy Kizzy is offline
Likes cars that go boom
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41,755


Kizzy Kizzy is offline
Likes cars that go boom
Kizzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41,755


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherie View Post
Far Left, Far Right, two peas in a pod as far as I'm concerned
I would LOVE to hear about some far left violence/ terrorism. Could you highlight some for me please?
__________________
Kizzy is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 02:04 PM #16
bitontheslide's Avatar
bitontheslide bitontheslide is offline
self-oscillating
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 45,248

Favourites:
BB2023: Noky
BB19: Sian


bitontheslide bitontheslide is offline
self-oscillating
bitontheslide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 45,248

Favourites:
BB2023: Noky
BB19: Sian


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy View Post
I would LOVE to hear about some far left violence/ terrorism. Could you highlight some for me please?
North Korea, China and Russia are such beacons of virtue
bitontheslide is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 02:07 PM #17
Cherie's Avatar
Cherie Cherie is offline
This Witch doesn't burn
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 61,427

Favourites (more):
Strictly 2020: Bill Bailey
BB19: Sian


Cherie Cherie is offline
This Witch doesn't burn
Cherie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 61,427

Favourites (more):
Strictly 2020: Bill Bailey
BB19: Sian


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy View Post
I would LOVE to hear about some far left violence/ terrorism. Could you highlight some for me please?
would you open the link if I bothered to post it for you? anyway BOTs has done a fine job in responding
__________________


'put a bit of lippy on and run a brush through your hair, we are alcoholics, not savages'
Cherie is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 02:29 PM #18
Twosugars Twosugars is offline
Stiff Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: London
Posts: 9,384
Twosugars Twosugars is offline
Stiff Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: London
Posts: 9,384
Default

Tibb rightwingers feel uncomfortable? So let's rewrite political sciences and the encyclopedia ?
I dont think so

Ollie, join a political sciences faculty somewhere and lead the terminology revolution. Then let us know how you get on.
Twosugars is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 02:57 PM #19
Toy Soldier Toy Soldier is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 30,350


Toy Soldier Toy Soldier is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 30,350


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bitontheslide View Post
North Korea, China and Russia are such beacons of virtue
False equivalency, we're not talking about far right/left governments we're talking about manifestations of extreme ideologies in Western nations.

Does any extreme ideology have the POTENTIAL to manifest in violent activity? Sure. That doesn't mean that recent far-right attacks aren't far-right attacks, or that they should be rebranded as something else.

Last edited by Toy Soldier; 09-11-2019 at 02:58 PM.
Toy Soldier is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 03:10 PM #20
The Slim Reaper's Avatar
The Slim Reaper The Slim Reaper is offline
Oh no, I'm English
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: In MS Paint on your desktop
Posts: 12,881
The Slim Reaper The Slim Reaper is offline
Oh no, I'm English
The Slim Reaper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: In MS Paint on your desktop
Posts: 12,881
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bitontheslide View Post
North Korea, China and Russia are such beacons of virtue
There has never been anything left wing about North Korea, it's actually a theocracy. One swift look at all the miracles attributed to the 3 generations of Korean rulers will show that explicitly.

Russia was far left originally, but again, became more of a theocratic state under Stalin. It then went back to far left post Stalin, but the breakup of the old soviet union saw an oligarchy form.

China was perhaps the longest consistent far left experiment, but today they are pretty much a capitalist country with some older authoritarian ideas thrown in for good measure.
__________________
The Slim Reaper is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 03:30 PM #21
Oliver_W's Avatar
Oliver_W Oliver_W is offline
POW! BLAM!
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bill's Secret Garden
Posts: 15,932

Favourites (more):
BBCanada 8: Chris
Apprentice 2019: Lottie


Oliver_W Oliver_W is offline
POW! BLAM!
Oliver_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bill's Secret Garden
Posts: 15,932

Favourites (more):
BBCanada 8: Chris
Apprentice 2019: Lottie


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy View Post
I would LOVE to hear about some far left violence/ terrorism. Could you highlight some for me please?
The extremists who get called "right wing" have about as much in common with the mainstream left as they do the right. Which is why fascist or neo-nazi would fit them better.
__________________


Oliver_W is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 03:42 PM #22
The Slim Reaper's Avatar
The Slim Reaper The Slim Reaper is offline
Oh no, I'm English
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: In MS Paint on your desktop
Posts: 12,881
The Slim Reaper The Slim Reaper is offline
Oh no, I'm English
The Slim Reaper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: In MS Paint on your desktop
Posts: 12,881
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver_W View Post
The extremists who get called "right wing" have about as much in common with the mainstream left as they do the right. Which is why fascist or neo-nazi would fit them better.
You've been a cheerleader for immigrants/refugees dying as they tried to find better lives for themselves. Others on this forum have blanket labelled ethnic groups arriving in this country as "trash", I'm guessing no one on this forum considers themselves far right, but if you're acting and using the same language as far right groups, then maybe some folks need to address their own attitudes.
__________________
The Slim Reaper is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 03:45 PM #23
Twosugars Twosugars is offline
Stiff Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: London
Posts: 9,384
Twosugars Twosugars is offline
Stiff Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: London
Posts: 9,384
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver_W View Post
The extremists who get called "right wing" have about as much in common with the mainstream left as they do the right. Which is why fascist or neo-nazi would fit them better.
No it wouldn't. Not all far right are nazi
Twosugars is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 03:47 PM #24
Twosugars Twosugars is offline
Stiff Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: London
Posts: 9,384
Twosugars Twosugars is offline
Stiff Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: London
Posts: 9,384
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper View Post
You've been a cheerleader for immigrants/refugees dying as they tried to find better lives for themselves. Others on this forum have blanket labelled ethnic groups arriving in this country as "trash", I'm guessing no one on this forum considers themselves far right, but if you're acting and using the same language as far right groups, then maybe some folks need to address their own attitudes.
Well said.
Twosugars is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 03:50 PM #25
Oliver_W's Avatar
Oliver_W Oliver_W is offline
POW! BLAM!
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bill's Secret Garden
Posts: 15,932

Favourites (more):
BBCanada 8: Chris
Apprentice 2019: Lottie


Oliver_W Oliver_W is offline
POW! BLAM!
Oliver_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bill's Secret Garden
Posts: 15,932

Favourites (more):
BBCanada 8: Chris
Apprentice 2019: Lottie


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper View Post
You've been a cheerleader for immigrants/refugees dying as they tried to find better lives for themselves. Others on this forum have blanket labelled ethnic groups arriving in this country as "trash", I'm guessing no one on this forum considers themselves far right, but if you're acting and using the same language as far right groups, then maybe some folks need to address their own attitudes.
Plenty of right wingers are all for open immigration, plenty of lefties are against it.
__________________


Oliver_W is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply

Bookmark/share this topic

Tags
extremists, far right, term

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:27 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
 

About Us ThisisBigBrother.com

"Big Brother and UK Television Forum. Est. 2001"

 

© 2023
no new posts