[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Captain.Remy

What rights are we talking about here? France is not an impoverished country where corruption is everywhere. It's not.
We have the same rights in France, here we only discuss a pension regime that people are mad about because it means they need to pull the finger out of their arse to get to work and stop relying on the government.

I used to strike when I was much younger for much harder causes that created less division in the country. This one is uncalled for and stupid. The unions know exactly what they are doing by harassing a new guy in politics thinking he's weak.
My issue also is that they don't represent a majority a French people, it's always the same unions that are blocking the country and create a climate of tension and division, and don't respect the results from a direct election that took place 2 years and a half ago.
And what about the people who voted for Macron? They just need to shut up and accept it from the sounds of the unions. And that's not right, he was elected by the people so let him do his job.

It's not personal, it's a policy issue yes?... Whoever were ringing in these pension reforms would garner the same reaction, again why would they have to get to work, they are already workers. It's fine coming from an older person who as you've said protested when it benefitted you to do so... what of these young men working now and worrying about how these reforms will impact them in old age?

[Captain.Remy]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It's not personal, it's a policy issue yes?... Whoever were ringing in these pension reforms would garner the same reaction, again why would they have to get to work, they are already workers. It's fine coming from an older person who as you've said protested when it benefitted you to do so... what of these young men working now and worrying about how these reforms will impact them in old age?

I'm actually 29, started protesting at 12 and got elected in pretty much every student union I got into. A true French basterd! But you know what, I grew up and realized that I don't need to rely too much on a President to decide how to live my life. And I respect what and who the people voted for.

The thing is, this reform is not a bad one.
You have to understand that here in France we offer a lot of assistance and a lot of workers have special regimes (going into retirement earlier, earning more etc...) that previous governments gave them just to keep peace.
It's time that it ends, and obviously they're mad about it. Though it needs to be kept for the harder jobs with hazard conditions.

Also the thing with having your pension calculated on your overall career and not your best 25 years is that it requires stepping up and do your best. And typically this is not what we are taught in France at a young age.
What we are taught is that work is rubbish, being competitive is bad, and also don't be too ambitious. And obviously, go strike for the most little thing.

Macron is young, fresh, full of 21st century ideas, he's trying to take us to a new era, but those unions would rather disrespect him and the results of an election.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Captain.Remy

I'm actually 29, started protesting at 12 and got elected in pretty much every student union I got into. A true French basterd! But you know what, I grew up and realized that I don't need to rely too much on a President to decide how to live my life. And I respect what and who the people voted for.

The thing is, this reform is not a bad one.
You have to understand that here in France we offer a lot of assistance and a lot of workers have special regimes (going into retirement earlier, earning more etc...) that previous governments gave them just to keep peace.
It's time that it ends, and obviously they're mad about it. Though it needs to be kept for the harder jobs with hazard conditions.

Also the thing with having your pension calculated on your overall career and not your best 25 years is that it requires stepping up and do your best. And typically this is not what we are taught in France at a young age.
What we are taught is that work is rubbish, being competitive is bad, and also don't be too ambitious. And obviously, go strike for the most little thing.

Macron is young, fresh, full of 21st century ideas, he's trying to take us to a new era, but those unions would rather disrespect him and the results of an election.

I don't agree with that attitude tbh, government don't give rights to keep the peace they are hard fought and hard won reform. To suggest cretain sectors forgo those is unfair.
I wouldn't expect any parent or teacher would suggest working hard is bad or wrong.

As any politician your leader works for the citizens, reforms are suggested and voted on, he is not in that position to inflict his will without analysis and debate.

Should a sector via their representatives disagree they are within their rights to voice their objections. That is democratic, democracy does not begin and end with a vote for a leader.

[Captain.Remy]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I don't agree with that attitude tbh, government don't give rights to keep the peace they are hard fought and hard won reform. To suggest cretain sectors forgo those is unfair.
I wouldn't expect any parent or teacher would suggest working hard is bad or wrong.

As any politician your leader works for the citizens, reforms are suggested and voted on, he is not in that position to inflict his will without analysis and debate.

Should a sector via their representatives disagree they are within their rights to voice their objections. That is democratic, democracy does not begin and end with a vote for a leader.

Trust me, this is our educational system.

Anybody should have the chance to voice their opinion, but without violence, hate or spreading fake news. And that's the most damaging thing the unions are doing, which is really annoying a lot of people here.

8th day without trains! Who does that? Yes, the people from French rail who benefit of the best social regime the world probably has ever seen. It costs an humongous amount of money, and yes, the governments gave it to them in the past to keep the peace and to not disturb the rail traffic. And that's the truth.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Captain.Remy

Trust me, this is our educational system.

Anybody should have the chance to voice their opinion, but without violence, hate or spreading fake news. And that's the most damaging thing the unions are doing, which is really annoying a lot of people here.

8th day without trains! Who does that? Yes, the people from French rail who benefit of the best social regime the world probably has ever seen. It costs an humongous amount of money, and yes, the governments gave it to them in the past to keep the peace and to not disturb the rail traffic. And that's the truth.

I find that hard to believe sorry that teachers don't want the children to do their best or achieve as much as their potential allows..

You have just explained how it is not that much of an inconvenience to you, back when you did protest there were those who wI'll have been unaffected by your cause who were inconvenienced by your actions in some way. This is the same on s larger scale, to show solidarity by just carrying on as you are is enough.

It seems unlikely the unions are spreading fake news, they will have pay, conditions, safety or contractual obligations to consider, if they are saying proposals compromise any of these why would you then think that is fake?

Politics is not a religion there is no need for blind faith or a devotion to one supreme leader, (yes even corbyn) it is possible to agree with an election result but disagree with a policy.

Again I doubt any past party budgeted just to keep the peace with the workforce, sectors such as the fire service are respected and integral to society in many ways, my first thought would be for them in any action.

[Captain.Remy]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I find that hard to believe sorry that teachers don't want the children to do their best or achieve as much as their potential allows..

You have just explained how it is not that much of an inconvenience to you, back when you did protest there were those who wI'll have been unaffected by your cause who were inconvenienced by your actions in some way. This is the same on s larger scale, to show solidarity by just carrying on as you are is enough.

It seems unlikely the unions are spreading fake news, they will have pay, conditions, safety or contractual obligations to consider, if they are saying proposals compromise any of these why would you then think that is fake?

Politics is not a religion there is no need for blind faith or a devotion to one supreme leader, (yes even corbyn) it is possible to agree with an election result but disagree with a policy.

Again I doubt any past party budgeted just to keep the peace with the workforce, sectors such as the fire service are respected and integral to society in many ways, my first thought would be for them in any action.

Well I mainly protested in high school and colleges by helping closing them for a few days to protest about stuff that were really (and I mean REALLY) bad. The whole France was against it, the government was not elected for that, and in that extent that was fair to protest because it was a complete blindside. I then understood there are other ways to make my voice heard. But it's just my personal case.

And just to finish this off, yes unions are spreading fake news about the pensions reform. Unions are very powerful in France, it's in our DNA too. They are mainly funded by public money (which to me is an atrocity but that's a whole other debate.) They don't seek compromise, they actually also lose pay days other this. They just announced today that there will be NO TRAINS during Christmas holidays, taking basically the whole country as hostage. Who is that cold hearted to do something that extreme? The French unions as usual.

In terms of the policy the President was elected to achieve, sure there are things I don't always agree with, but then again he was elected on a second round (in France we have two rounds: one with all candidates, another one with the top 2 later) so Macron really had opportunities to explain that policy and he got the most votes in both rounds. Now if there were dictatorial tendencies I would agree, but really it's only 5 years (10 at most) and it is his turn to turn his policy into actions. Let him do the job and judge him later, not before. That's all I'm saying.

In the end, you can always take a long trip there to see for yourself I suppose. I can't explain it any further I suppose, so that's fair, and thanks for your interest! I really mean that in a nice way.