[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Liam-

we haven’t seen any women’s rights actually be affected by trans people, no rights have been taken away or reversed

Single sex spaces had to be fought for, and they're compromised by transwomen.

It's not a right being violated per say but dehumanising language like "mestrators" being used instead of "women"

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Single sex spaces had to be fought for, and they're compromised by transwomen.

It's not a right being violated per say but dehumanising language like "mestrators" being used instead of "women"

They’re ‘compromised’ by transwomen how?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Mokka

no, it's maybe affecting perceived rights, bit that is a whole discussion on what are rights and what are privileges, how they are defined in each different society and through out the world. Rights can be redefined.

No it isn't affecting women's rights? So you think Rachel McKinnon isn't encroaching on women's rights then?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Mokka

And biologically speaking, not all women have periods, so it isn't a definition of being a woman

Where did I say having periods was the definition of being a woman? You're arguing a point that I haven't made

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Liam-

They’re ‘compromised’ by transwomen how?

Transwomen are biologically male. I wonder how many women would be comfortable getting changed around someone who is visibly male?

[Cal.]

Aw my mum is called Karen

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Cal.

Aw my mum is called Karen

And does she live up to it?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Yes that is what I believe people are trying to do, we haven’t seen any women’s rights actually be affected by trans people, no rights have been taken away or reversed, what’s happening to trans people now, is the same thing that happened to gay people, they were accused of encroaching on straight rights, they were accused of indoctrinating children, they were accused of trying to take control of society with their ‘perverted ideology’ if women are happy for people to be who they are, why does their existence threaten women in any form of way?

YES WE HAVE. Women have been raped in prisons by "transwomen" Womens sports has been affected by transwomen

And for the record, I don't believe actual trans people are to blame here, I think that men are abusing these loopholes for their own gain

I also believe these issues only started when gender replaced sex

[Cal.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

And does she live up to it?

She’s 40 and gobby but she’s not crazy so idk

[Tom4784]

JK Rowling sadly has a history of transphobic remarks and the whole menstruation thing, while factual, is meant to demean trans women. She's embraced the TERF school of thought sadly.

I think the abuse she's suffered is awful but her timing with going public with her history demeans what she's gone through because it inevitably sounds like she's just talking about it to derail the whole controversy, I don't like saying it but you're going to get people who will say that she's using her past for sympathy which undermines her struggles and other people's struggles with the same issues. It's her story and she decides when to tell it but unfortunately, she probably chose the worst time she could to tell it.

[Marsh.]

Wow, that Sun front page. The witch hunt is out in full force. Absolutely disgusting.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

JK Rowling sadly has a history of transphobic remarks and the whole menstruation thing, while factual, is meant to demean trans women. She's embraced the TERF school of thought sadly.

I think the abuse she's suffered is awful but her timing with going public with her history demeans what she's gone through because it inevitably sounds like she's just talking about it to derail the whole controversy, I don't like saying it but you're going to get people who will say that she's using her past for sympathy which undermines her struggles and other people's struggles with the same issues. It's her story and she decides when to tell it but unfortunately, she probably chose the worst time she could to tell it.

Nasty word used to shut women down.

[Marsh.]

The worst part about the entire thing is so called "progressive activists" like Emma Watson coming out just to trot out shallow phrases rather than actually join the discussion.

She wants to do what she holds herself up to be? Then add a meaningful article of your own to support the trans community, or to offer up some form of debate. Just coming out to basically say "Trans women are women" which adds nothing to the conversation other than repeating a phrase as a simple way of saying "FYI I'm not with JK Rowling so don't unfollow and attack me guys" is disingenuous and makes what she stands for laughable.

At least Daniel Radcliffe had the guts to actually write a bloody article (or at least put his name to one).

The same as all the celebs parroting the same "Black Lives Matter" "Act Now" slogans. Not actually doing much for the cause they claim to be so passionate about, simply doing it for the credit without putting the work in. JK Rowling at least stands by and has the charitable foundations to back up her support for many causes.

One of the responses to her tweet got it right "Your feminism is a joke!". From the articles I've read and the responses I've seen the trans community themselves don't even seem to agree with one another on whether what JK actually said was transphobic or not, the majority of the abuse I've seen posted at her on twitter is by white, cis people (all ironically telling her that as a white, cis, woman she shouldn't be allowed her voice which is nonsense). So for her to share a story of abuse and people like Emma Watson just to add to the pile-on and not actively add to the important discussion is really rather disgusting. Society can't change and move on unless people allow opposing thoughts and discussions.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Wow, that Sun front page. The witch hunt is out in full force. Absolutely disgusting.

I don't really know enough about trans rights issues to be a regular commenter in these threads, but I think JKR's connections to the Leveson enquiry is a major cause of their attacks on her. Same way they've been going after Coogan again after he called for Leveson to be completed properly.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Yes that is what I believe people are trying to do, we haven’t seen any women’s rights actually be affected by trans people, no rights have been taken away or reversed, what’s happening to trans people now, is the same thing that happened to gay people, they were accused of encroaching on straight rights, they were accused of indoctrinating children, they were accused of trying to take control of society with their ‘perverted ideology’ if women are happy for people to be who they are, why does their existence threaten women in any form of way?

Their existence does not threaten women in anyway, it may surprise you but transsexuals have been a thing for a while now, no problems.

The problems started occurring when gender replaces sex and suddenly all you need to do is say you're a woman, maybe take some hormones and you can compete competitively in women's sports.... all of a sudden women's records are being smashed, it's at best totally unfair, at worst ****ing dangerous (sports like Rugby/MMA)

It threatens female prisoners when the right to self ID allows you into women's prisons as
a man

It affects childrens rights when it's being campaigned for children to be able to take puberty blockers which can basically **** up their whole lives and make them sterile

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

I don't really know enough about trans rights issues to be a regular commenter in these threads, but I think JKR's connections to the Leveson enquiry is a major cause of their attacks on her. Same way they've been going after Coogan again after he called for Leveson to be completed properly.

I completely forgot about that. As Arista would say, bang on right.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

The worst part about the entire thing is so called "progressive activists" like Emma Watson coming out just to trot out shallow phrases rather than actually join the discussion.

She wants to do what she holds herself up to be? Then add a meaningful article of your own to support the trans community, or to offer up some form of debate. Just coming out to basically say "Trans women are women" which adds nothing to the conversation other than repeating a phrase as a simple way of saying "FYI I'm not with JK Rowling so don't unfollow and attack me guys" is disingenuous and makes what she stands for laughable.

At least Daniel Radcliffe had the guts to actually write a bloody article (or at least put his name to one).

The same as all the celebs parroting the same "Black Lives Matter" "Act Now" slogans. Not actually doing much for the cause they claim to be so passionate about, simply doing it for the credit without putting the work in.

One of the responses to her tweet got it right "Your feminism is a joke!". From the articles I've read and the responses I've seen the trans community themselves don't even seem to agree with one another on whether what JK actually said was transphobic or not, the majority of the abuse I've seen posted at her on twitter is by white, cis people (all ironically telling her that as a white, cis, woman she shouldn't be allowed her voice which is nonsense). So for her to share a story of abuse and people like Emma Watson just to add to the pile-on and not actively add to the important discussion is really rather disgusting. Society can't change and move on unless people allow opposing thoughts and discussions.

Superb Marsh

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Cal.

She’s 40 and gobby but she’s not crazy so idk

Well this explains everything

[Marsh.]

Some balance from a transsexual themselves.

https://thepostmillennial.com/jk-row...just-sensitive

Making the valid point that if biological sex doesn't exist, kind of invalidates trans people too as they "transition" for a reason.

The claim that JK has poured hatred and justified violence against transpeople is one of the more laughable claims I've heard.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

The worst part about the entire thing is so called "progressive activists" like Emma Watson coming out just to trot out shallow phrases rather than actually join the discussion.

She wants to do what she holds herself up to be? Then add a meaningful article of your own to support the trans community, or to offer up some form of debate. Just coming out to basically say "Trans women are women" which adds nothing to the conversation other than repeating a phrase as a simple way of saying "FYI I'm not with JK Rowling so don't unfollow and attack me guys" is disingenuous and makes what she stands for laughable.

At least Daniel Radcliffe had the guts to actually write a bloody article (or at least put his name to one).

The same as all the celebs parroting the same "Black Lives Matter" "Act Now" slogans. Not actually doing much for the cause they claim to be so passionate about, simply doing it for the credit without putting the work in. JK Rowling at least stands by and has the charitable foundations to back up her support for many causes.

One of the responses to her tweet got it right "Your feminism is a joke!". From the articles I've read and the responses I've seen the trans community themselves don't even seem to agree with one another on whether what JK actually said was transphobic or not, the majority of the abuse I've seen posted at her on twitter is by white, cis people (all ironically telling her that as a white, cis, woman she shouldn't be allowed her voice which is nonsense). So for her to share a story of abuse and people like Emma Watson just to add to the pile-on and not actively add to the important discussion is really rather disgusting. Society can't change and move on unless people allow opposing thoughts and discussions.

Well said Marsh!

[Marsh.]

[Marsh.]

Also, just now I've come across the "Women and cis women" stuff, yeah. She was accused of "othering" transpeople but I imagine people born as women find it pretty othering for it to now be a case of "trans women are WOMEN and women are CIS WOMEN". The sudden disdain for any mention of the word trans is what's causing any harm to that community, but at the same time they want to uphold use of the word "cis". It's hypocritical and toxic.



And as a cis, privileged white person that's me done.

[Cal.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Well this explains everything

Erm how so darlin!

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Nasty word used to shut women down.

TERFs do exist though, I think you're right in that there have been cases of 'Trans' people preying on women and using their status as a way of doing so but TERFs are basically extremists that oppose trans people in general and JK has been known to tweet support for TERFs that have been ruled in a court of law to be discriminating against trans people. TERFs are no different, in my eyes, to LGB people who oppose the T and want it abolished. It's not a word I'd use to describe just women either, any gender can be a TERF if they hold extreme views.

I do think that a lot of the problems with people abusing trans status would generally not be a thing if self diagnosis wasn't a thing. I don't think anyone should be able to say 'I am trans' and then start living as their preferred gender just because there's more to be considered than that unfortunately.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I do think that a lot of the problems with people abusing trans status would generally not be a thing if self diagnosis wasn't a thing. I don't think anyone should be able to say 'I am trans' and then start living as their preferred gender just because there's more to be considered than that unfortunately.

Which seems to be JKR's entire argument IMO. That you can't just erase biology from people who are born women, and you can't allow people to call themselves trans, which makes a mockery of the people who spend their lives fighting hard to be seen and treated as the sex they see themselves to be and actually transition.

I don't understand why more members of the trans community are not just as aggrieved as cis women about this self ID stuff. It's harmful to both.